Yeah, cataphracts are mainly a DM unit, so make then work in a rush. So this includes improving h. cavalry.

Scythes and siege wars do occur in RM too, when it goes iron (usually in 3v3 or 4v4).
 
The idea basically is to make cataphracts useful, without replacing scythes or AEs with them which would reduce variety not increase it.

wedsaz: We do need more variety in DM.

Every Reg DM is always an early ele rush at 5 mins followed with siege. Legions only ever appear for Choson or Roman players and only Egypt try scythes.

HHA are making an appearance in Archer DMs but not the Reg DM.

We need to make the cataphract a good rush unit: cheap, effective, quick to build. (Or a useful anti-siege unit)

siege - half damage, 6 minimum range
eles - -200 hps, +4 armor (no difference in fights vs legions and stable units, but weaker vs cents and archers)
legions - +10f +10g (45f 25g)
scythes - -2 attack, -2 armor, -1 range (turns them into a raiding-only unit)
 
How's that for an iron age patch?

That'll kill eles straight away with archers so preponderant. Nobody will have them with these stats. Or are you lowering their cost as well?
In single player games it'll kill siege pretty efficiently too.
And what's left of scythes with that? You want to turn them into nannies?
Legions - you mean make longies unupgradable. That'll give some players a pain.

Nice to come by and find you all still here. Wedsaz has balancing ideas which, as always, are well considered and carefully thought through. But I wonder if the community of players is still large enough to support such an ambitious list of changes. It becomes harder each day to find even a game of standard AoE. Where, oh where will the players come from to actually play the game when your features are instituted?

Maybe it will encourage new people. Who cares? Welcome back :-)

Sir!
Welcome back indeed.
As for active playerrs, try rornews.com. 'tis true they play ROR but it's a lively community.

Thank you Peter and Phill for your most kindly welcomes. The game is not dead and I guess I agree with Phill's sentiment, "who cares". I just came from the zone where as usual I viewed the array of available games with dismay. I finally gave up and hosted one of my personal favorites, a pop 50 no reveal 3v3 rm. Surprisingly the room quickly filled and we had a quite spirited set to in the very old style. The game is still fun for me and for many others and I guess who DOES care what the rest think.

[This message has been edited by ManBehindTheCurtain (edited 09-10-2002 @ 10:11 PM).]

Whats ur zone nick manbehindthecurtain?Ive read a lot of ur posts u seem to know what ure talking about come play with us guaranteed enjoyment..my current nick is dreadlox playing pop 150 no rev spd 1.0 max no same civ on team great fun

Ack, me peter and Phill hardly play anyway. As long as the community still lives, it's OK!

Thanks for the kind invite JK_Daddy. It sounds to me like you are playing RoR, though. I may be wrong but isn't no same civ usually a Rise of Rome game? It's tougher to do in AoE.

I liked RoR a lot when I did play it but I no longer even have it installed. I miss having slingers, they are a great improvement in the early game. I do not miss scythe chariots which in my opinion are the ultimate ruination of Rise of Rome. I love the clanging noise they make but I believe Iron Age should be dominated by gold based units. Gold should be precious, you should have to conserve and fight for gold. Scythes change the dynamic too much. I now play AoE only.

Still, I will probably wander over to your area of the zone and check you all out and who knows? Maybe I will install RoR again. I know that I would love to be in a 1.0 no reveal game again.

Peter and I are doing some revamping to the Granary which proved to be a little more time consuming than anticipated, plus work for me personally went ballistic in the last couple of weeks, but things are calming down now so I hope to get it done and dusted and get back on the Zone soon.

MBTC:
I agree about scythes, which is why I'd reduce their stats down to chariot-level except for trampling and HPs. That would maintain their unique identity as a fast trampling unit, without them overpowering gold units so easily.
 
I think slingers should be more useful in bronze and iron though.