You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Scenario Design and Modding
Moderated by Suppiluliuma, PhatFish, Fisk, Epd999

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: Not Good, but Pretty Darned.
posted 12-18-03 00:32 AM ET (US)   
Author's Note-Some of the campaigns we see submitted to our site every day aren't just pretty bad, they're terrible. Many of the people who make these scenarios with the large brush, using only the first four terrains, because "they don't have time for anything else". This article is NOT for advanced designers, and is only nominally usefull for intermediate designers.

Creating Fairly Good Scenarios

The caliber of many scenarios produced by beginners can be massively improved in just five minutes or so, using a variety of simple, idiot-proff techniques. These techniques won't make you an excellent, but they will make you a good one, and one at least worthy of a review here at AOEH. The following tips apply more or less in chronological order as your scenario takes shape. Beginner and Intermediate designers, take note.

Storyline
So many scenarios and campaigns are based on "the good guys" and "the bad guys". A crappy scenario with an excellent plot will at least be redeemed by an excellent plot. Make up nonsensical names and city names for your countries and cities. Instead of presenting just a list of instructions, open with a paragraph or two of storyline, and tell us a few tidbits about your people's religion, personality, whatever. Get the player hooked before he even begins playing.

Generate Grass Maps
A vast majority of scenarios are produced on large-sized maps, the default in the scenario editor. The result of this is that the grass/desert patches and rocks added with the grass brush do not appear. Even if you use a large-sized map, click one generate map anyway. This will give what would otherwise be large stretches of grass a bit more life by adding a few rocks, trees, and so on. You can delete them later anyway.

Fade oceans
Oceans are composed of mostly deep water, with a band of regular water between them. Once you've set this up, use the tiny brush to scribble bits of deep water down the middle of rivers, along the boundary between the deep and regular water, and so on. Clean breaks do not exist in nature.

Use the Tiny Brush
I use the tiny brush almost exclusively in the editor. This prevents you from setting down forests that are more or less square, and by painting on forests with a tiny brush you give the forest a more open, natural feel.

Mix Trees
Mix together pine and forest trees together to make forests that look more realistic. This is simple and takes literally a few seconds, but the visual effect is enormous.

Elevations
Elevations will give life to any bland area. Look around you. Most likely, you see hills. If an area is a stretch of nothingness, add some hills.

There is no such thing as a square hill, or a hill that is perfectly shaped. vary elevations and shape when you create hills.

Paths
Desert is the material of choice for paths. PLEASE, don't make your character walk by a palm tree in the middle of the mountains because you couldn't bring yourself to delete them.

There is no such thing as a straight path (are we beginning to see a pattern?). Make your paths wind and twist, and bring them over hills, etc.

Eye Candy

Many of the newbie map designers who submit their work here have apperently read the design tricks in our Seige Workshop section, and have used the eye-candy tips described there, but have left the rest of their maps bland. Place eye-candy in strategic spots where the player will see it often. These include along paths, on battlefields, and in enemy towns.

Villages, Towns, and Cities

No one, except the Romans, built square towns. If your village has a wall, make it, at the very least, L-shaped, or T-shaped. An interesting village will have a more creative shape.

Villages were not meant to be bland collections of houses with desert paths around them. Number one, they have trees. This is especially nice in smaller villages. Make sure you give the computer villagers access and proximity to some other wood source, however, or they'll cut all the trees down. For more on trees, check out the excellent article in the Links section below, by Rasher.

Playtesting

Please, PLEASE playtest your own stuff. It it bores you, it'll bore anyone else. By the time you're donw bug-checking the thing you should be sick to death of it. things that people DONT want to see include:

-Scenarios where you start with 90000 of every resource (with a few exceptions)

-Scenarios with huge, pointless battles that require little or no tactical thinking

Bridges

The bridges used in two of the eye candy articles here are excellent for large bridges, but what about small foot bridges over rivers and whatnot, or (as in Ingo Van Thiel's The Two Brothers) a rope bridge over a canyon? For this, cover desert in a careful arrangement of skeletons. This looks really great, especially on smaller bridges where you can bend the lines more and make the bridge look "curved". This works very well for making small docks too.

Links

http://aoe.heavengames.com/siege/MapDesign/bitmaps.shtml

This is our Map Design nexus here at AOEH. Anyone new to map design should give it a look.

http://aoe.heavengames.com/siege/MapDesign/Rasher/wccsdchap4.htm

Chapter Four of Rasher's design series talks more about the idea of putting trees in towns, and has some truly awesome screenshots.

Hopefully, with these tips in hand, you will go forth to achieve....well, at least mediocrity

Joe


Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.

[This message has been edited by Joecool1 (edited 12-18-2003 @ 04:41 PM).]

Replies:
posted 12-18-03 01:50 AM ET (US)     1 / 19  

Quote:

A vast majority of scenarios are produced on large-sized maps, the default in the scenario editor. The result of this is that the grass/desert patches and rocks added with the grass brush do not appear. Even if you use a large-sized map, click one generate map anyway.


I don't do this. Deleting all the randomly placed rocks gets annoying when you want to place desert patches. (They won't go within about 5 spaces of each other)
The "large stretches of grass" are best given life manually once the scenario is totally finished; the process of hunting down blank areas and inserting trees, rocks, elevations etc.

[/Qwerty]
posted 12-18-03 02:12 AM ET (US)     2 / 19  
Yes, that's a good point. Sometimes I will generate a random map and tweak it, but most times that won't give me the layout I want, and doing it from scratch on a blank map is often easier for me. As a basic principle for those looking for quick ways to do better, it's good though. Nice post, Joe.

One point I do agree on is the story. So many times we see the 'your father/village/dog has been killed' revenge story. I am as guilty of this as anyone - my first campaign was exactly that, but I considered this merely the starting event to trigger the campaign and developed the story from there. Character development often gets neglected, and I completely agree that by creating characters who hook you with their personalities can carry an otherwise mediocre campaign, because it did for me


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 12-18-2003 @ 02:17 AM).]

posted 12-18-03 02:40 AM ET (US)     3 / 19  
This is good, Joe. Not too intimidating.

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 12-18-03 09:10 AM ET (US)     4 / 19  
There are very few straight lines in nature, yet so many scenarios have straight shorelines, straight line elevation changes, and so forth.

If you want to improve, get religious about Joe's tip on using the tiny brush.

posted 12-18-03 03:43 PM ET (US)     5 / 19  
And that is why, everytime after I make rivers or oceans, I always try to make the shorelines as irregular as possible.

Also, you may want to consider doing this: after placing an ocean, use the desert brush and thicken the shoreline a bit - thin beaches which only streatches two villagers' width doesn't really exist in the nature. It is better to cover the shoreline with rocks, though, if you don't want to make a beach.

Of course - delete all palm trees and bones that come in the desert tiles.


_,~`Adamant Hoplite`~,_ - The Imaginary and Fantastical Hellenic Sovereign King
380 Health, 52 Attack, 30 Hack Armour, 12 Pierce Armour, Very Fast Speed, Inconvertible, etc, etc, etc.
"The people of Hellas shall rise - Hellenes, sharpen your Kopis, raise your Dory, wield your proud Hoplon in gleaming sunlight - time has inevitably arrived to cast down the corrupted Imperials."
AoEH | Zeus Heaven | MEO | Hoplites | The Allerian Empire
posted 12-18-03 04:43 PM ET (US)     6 / 19  
Finished.

Nice ideas, Adamant. maybe I can put up a section of other suggestions from other forumers if this thing gets stickied *cough* hint *hack* or a lot of people have ideas.


Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.
posted 12-19-03 00:29 AM ET (US)     7 / 19  
No, don't sticky it, turn it into an article.

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 12-19-03 03:59 PM ET (US)     8 / 19  
Hmm....Nice idea...maybe I'll re-edit bits and we could do that. It'd be nice to get it stickied though....

Speaking of Stickies. We really should unsticky the Hittites contest....sorry Dangrimm.

Doc, check your email.


Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.
posted 12-20-03 05:20 AM ET (US)     9 / 19  
No offense taken, but keep it stickied, if you had read the last post I put in it, im going to get the sontest running sometime after christmas, so its gonna become reactive pretty soon.
posted 12-20-03 06:38 PM ET (US)     10 / 19  
Joe, the reason I never playtested your campaign is that it was not attatched, thus, can't send.

Sorry.


DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier

[This message has been edited by Dr Lorenzo (edited 12-20-2003 @ 06:39 PM).]

posted 12-20-03 06:53 PM ET (US)     11 / 19  
*refrains from bad language*

that was the last copy of that too. i spent ten hours just on the instructions maps.

sigh........


Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.
posted 12-20-03 06:58 PM ET (US)     12 / 19  
Have you got that program that restores lost stuff?

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 12-21-03 05:33 PM ET (US)     13 / 19  
From a reformatted hard drive? Naw.

's ok I'll live. I'm working on other stuff now anyway.


Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.
posted 12-21-03 06:32 PM ET (US)     14 / 19  
Whatever. Losing projects is always depressing.

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 12-21-03 08:07 PM ET (US)     15 / 19  
Yeah it is. But the real pain isn't that one it's that all of the stuff i was fiddling with, including a couple Atlantis-themed scenarios that were pretty cool, got deleted too. But like I said, i'm working on other stuff now, so it's all good.

Joecool1-A fairly pitiful and temporary signature
Current Project:Dar Sarvastus, Wizard of Death
Scenario 4: Elves
Download the demo here.
posted 04-23-05 06:45 AM ET (US)     16 / 19  
This topic deserves a read. It would make a nice article I think, any chance we could still do that?

It's quite depressing to read about the hordes of projects that have been lost and abandoned over the years. The worst thing is where a PC has failed and all was lost. Make backups, guys, a campaign fits on a floopy.

This time I was looking for JoeCool1. I recently played what is basically his only good scenario, Dar Savastus. Sadly it was never finished either. I presume Joe is gone now but he was pretty good I think, just wasn't able to get much finished. Think twice before abandoning a project, you might end up never submitting anything!


Richard Wilde
rswilde01(at)gmail(dot)com
Skype - Gmail - Firefox
Wikipedia
Review Thread - AoKH - GenieWiki
posted 04-23-05 07:26 AM ET (US)     17 / 19  
He dropped in not so long ago - I'm pretty sure he'll be back. As I said, make it an article as long as you credit the original author.

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 04-23-05 07:53 AM ET (US)     18 / 19  
Nice article.

While sausages are tasty, you might cut your finger with that pencil over there.
posted 04-23-05 07:09 PM ET (US)     19 / 19  
When did he drop in? I wanted to email him but it wasn't listed.

Richard Wilde
rswilde01(at)gmail(dot)com
Skype - Gmail - Firefox
Wikipedia
Review Thread - AoKH - GenieWiki
Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Modding » Not Good, but Pretty Darned.
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Empires Heaven | HeavenGames