i dont care if it says ship... just make it attakable

It will seem a bit odd to me that those porters throw away the goods they got on their hands and attack enemys. By the way, you have to tell me which attack graphic they should use, too.

What about other people's view?

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-17-2005 @ 10:25 AM).]

jihad weapon would look best...

This is how I would do it.

Merchant
Unit ID: 380
Hit Point: 55
Attack Point: 0
Armour Point: 1/1
Train: Market 2
Cost: 50 food 10 gold

This unit is more expensive, but in return it has more hitpoints, is lightly armoured and can take a little more resources (13 instead of 10?)

Mounted Merchant
Unit ID: 381
Hit Point: 65
Attack Point: 0
Armour Point: 2/2
Train: Market 2
Cost: 50 food 10 gold, upgrade cost 70 food and 30 gold

Upgrade of the Merchant, a few more HPs and better armour. Faster than the Merchant or Carrier, but not as fast as a normal mounted unit.

Trade Cart
Unit ID: 382
Hit Point: 100
Attack Point: 0
Armour Point: 2/4
Train: Market 2
Cost: 50 food 80 wood

This is another separate unit. It has more HPs than the other trade untis and has better armour (especially against archers), however, it's also very expensive (50 food and 80 wood), though it doesn't cost gold and slightly slower than normal carriers/merchants. Can take 15 resources.

Suggestions?

@LittleFreak

You have good points on the unit attribute, but we can only train not more than 5 type of units in a single buildings.

Since the carriers are just scenario decoration units, maybe should I remove them from the trainable units list?

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-17-2005 @ 11:42 AM).]

Yeah, they should only be available as decoration and not trainable.

[This message has been edited by LittleFreak (edited 11-17-2005 @ 11:58 AM).]

Posted a screenshot of carriers. You can find that the basic carriers look relatively smaller.

Hm.. I think, if carriers aren't available as a normal unit, the attributes should be tweaked a little (maybe reduce the gold cost of merchants?).

Feel free to speak out your ideas.

I'll think about it.

Oh, and nice screenshot. d=

maybe the tradecart could be trained in the trade workshop
it would give the building some use...

That's a good idea.

What exactly are the porters?

Which porters?

About the trade cart, will it be moving on it's own like artifacts or will it have the look as if a villager is pulling it?

Porters/Carriers are basically just decoration units with no other usage.

You may use them for some victory conditions such as bringing X carriers to an area. Considering about this, I think I would increase the costs of them as well.

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-17-2005 @ 09:03 PM).]

Why is the far right carrier not carrying anything? Now about Current Issue 2 is it possible to make a exact copy of the original dock and just change the way it looks?

Unfortunately, the trading procedure seem to be coded within the program itself, or at least not in the database. I have tried making a duplication for the dock and even changed the command target of the trading units to it. However, it still won't work.

On the other hand, the carrier without anything in his hand is the BASIC carrier, which I think I won't make available training.

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-17-2005 @ 09:54 PM).]

So, you can't tell a trade cart to transport goods between markets or is it just the AI that you can't get to work?

Because if it is only the AI, than there isn't much problem with that - the original AIs didn't include trade boats either...

Issue 1: Of course, just the same as a trade boat. They shouldn't be able to attack back, but they should be killable.

Issue 2: Depends on the case whether it is just the AI or not. If the whole thing works, than there isn't much trouble with the AI unable to utilise it. That's the cleanest, I believe... It won't win any Artificial Intelligence awards, but it is the cleanest.

Issue 3: Carriers: more hit points than a standard villager, but they can't attack and everything else remains the same
Merchants: much more hit points than a standard villager, but they can't attack (perhaps could be a bit faster, too)
Mounted Merchants: have more hit points than a scout, and be just as fast as a scout is.
Trade Carts: be a bit faster than an artifact (and if possible carry more goods?) but they shouldn't cost gold.

Issue 4: Some simple, rather basic description is far enough.

Edit: My basic idea behind having these traders faster than a standard unit is: They need a basic protection from roaming enemy units, and their only hope is the speed to run from them and the hit points to withstand the damage while they are running. Just think of a Merchant Ship.

[This message has been edited by BBalazs (edited 11-18-2005 @ 08:46 AM).]

@BBalazs

Regarding to Issue 2, the game program only treats unit 45 (which means normal dock) as a building that can trade goods from. Therefore, it's not only an AI issue.

I can also tell trade carts and merchants target at only market, but the market won't give them goods, so it's pointless.

By the way, I would want to ask if the amounts of goods a trade boat can carry different to that a merchant boat can.

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-18-2005 @ 08:55 AM).]

ok hang on. Let me get up to speed. Do we now have the ability to add new units?

So the only way we could get it to work is to use docks on land, and hide them with another building, if that will work? And the trade units will be able to trade with regular docks as well. I guess it's okay, they could be like a land trade unit between docks, and we could utilize the overlapping units .dat to hide some docks on land and let the AI trade on land, and use them as land docks for the human player, or maybe mix them carefully with other buildings to create a new 'trading post' type building where you click on the dock part to trade.

Edit: Say, can we make new buildings or technolgies as well?

[This message has been edited by Richard Ames (edited 11-18-2005 @ 01:57 PM).]

Okay, than, here's an idea.
Make a dock on a free slot that functions like the normal dock
Create another dock/port(?) on slot 45, that has the units/techs for trade. Now because we don't want to cancel water trade, we only want to add land trade, there is an issue on what terrain should we be able to build the dock/port. For land trade, it would be obvious to use land. However, we also want to keep the boat trade, and for that it is imparative to put the building on the shore. Perhaps mixing the two (can be built over shore and land) would be the best solution. This seems ideal.
Now comes the bad part: All previous scenarios that used water trade within AI files (and also by scenario design) would be ruined at some point because the trade boats just won't 'trade'. Other 'incompatibilities' may also occur because of the switched ID - for example, the computer player won't build docks in any older campaigns (as the AI files are coded into the campaign file)

So, there are pros and cons here. Changing IDs will work, but there will be problems with previous scenarios and campaigns.

One more thing - will land trade be accessible in simple random map modes, or just the editor? It would be great to actually do all this in a random map...

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Exactly.

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It sounds quite like my second proposal.

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I can enable trade workshop-building for villagers if you want.

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Building is just a unit, and new technologies have actually been made in this modpack.

[This message has been edited by scenario_t_c (edited 11-19-2005 @ 04:22 AM).]

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Yeh, would be cool...

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Who says we can't just send units to trade at the docks? The 2nd market/TradeWorkshop COULD just train merchants, Trade Carts, and carriers.

After all, a lot of people would go to the port to trade goods, too.

Right?

Issue 4: "Your merchant is being attacked by (name)!"
" ' ' carrier ' '"
" ' ' trade cart ' '"

[This message has been edited by HeroPatrick 111 (edited 11-19-2005 @ 00:33 AM).]