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Topic Subject: Yet another civilization outline for AOM II
posted 05-28-04 10:58 AM EDT (US)   
All right, first of all, I beg you: I already know this is a living religion and will never appear in a game because it could be offensive to many people and so on... so, please don’t flame me about that. I posted this because I had fun making it and I wanted to share the idea with you, if you like it, you can post questions and suggestions, if you don’t like it, you can suggest things to improve it; but, I repeat, no talk about this being useless, because I already know it is. Having said that, let me present the Indian civilization outline to you, hope you like it:


I wanted to see here a civilization that had never before showed in an ES game. India is a great country with a very old history and great empires, they also have one of the richest mythologies on earth, so, there is a lot of new material to work with.
Hindus are a very complex and difficult to play civ. but they can be very strong if played correctly; by that I mean that their economy-military-technology-defense aren’t particulary strong or weak, but they rather work together in a way that makes the civ. be strong without having, for example, a killer economy or a base full of fortresses and defenses.
Every unit of the Indians gains favor if it is not fighting or being attacked. That doesn’t mean that you cannot fight if you want favor; villagers gain a little favor too (although less than other units), and not all units will be fighting all the time. Of course, the favor gathering rate per unit would be really slow.
They only have one real hero, which is the Rajan (king). This is a very powerful hero who attacks with both a bow and a saber an is the best myth unit killer of the game; it’s also a very good overall fighter, but, like the pharaoh, you can only have one (unlike the pharaoh, the prince doesn’t appear at the beginning of the game, you must create it, just like the Greek heroes, after you build your temple, and it doesn’t empower anything, he’s just a warrior). There is another non hero unit that counters myth units: the purohita, a mounted soldier, it’s not as good as the prince, but it has the advantage of being amassable.
They scout with the Rishi, which is weak and slow like a priest and doesn’t have a very large line of sight, but he has a very useful and peculiar ability: if you point him to a tree or an animal (not a herd animal), he will get line of sight of it; animals will explore the area they would naturally wander in, and will also get the line of sight of the animals they see; trees will slowly expand their line of sight to surrounding trees until the entire forest and a reasonable area around it are covered; it also works with gold mines, you get a rather large area covered with one goldmine. When the Rishi is killed, you can no longer see what happens in the area he had covered.
I don’t have much information about soldiers from ancient India, but here are some units made up from some history lessons found on the internet: the standard foot soldier is the kshatriya, or warrior, you can train them from the beginning and their stats increase for every age advancement. Every major god’s kshatriyas have a unique attribute, and minor gods give them more special characteristics. The standard archer is the patti, it has very good attack, but poor range, it’s good against highly armored infantry; mounted archers, or rathins are faster and have more range, but they are more expensive, they are not so easily beaten by cavalry. The senani, the army chief, is a soldier on an elephant, very powerful but very expensive and slow, so you can’t have many of them, they can beat almost everything, but their low speed makes them good targets for enemy units, they are good building killers. Spasas were actually spies; but here they are infantry soldiers with a very powerful melee attack but extremely vulnerable to arrow fire and rather low health points, though they beat both cavalry and infantry. The dutas (messengers) are light cavalry units but, when completely upgraded, they are the fastest soldiers in the game; they also have huge line of sight and are very good against archers.

The Indian titan would be Ravanna, the king of demons, he's said to have 10 heads and 20 (?) arms. He was defeated by Rama (or Raama) in the Ramayana. Thanks a lot to Ekalavya for this idea!!!!


HINDU MAJOR GODS
Brahma. The creator, supreme god of Hinduism and major god of the Trimurti or divine Trinity; he is considered to be the force within all beings upon the earth.
Focus: Myth units and favor gathering.
God power: Sacred Tree, cast this god power near your TC to make a sacred fig tree grow there; you can task villagers to it, every single villager working on the tree will gather the three types of resources at the same time as if it were three villagers, each of them gathering a different resource, the tree gives you more resources in later ages.
Bonus:
- Rishi scouting is faster and they have more health points.
- Myth units are created faster.
- Favor is gathered faster.
- Get free resources every time you destroy an enemy building.
- Kshatriyas have great speed.
Myth tech: Brahmastra, the great weapon of Brahma gives more attack to myth units and makes their special attacks last twice as long and regenerate twice as fast.

Vishnu. The preserver, the second of the Trinity, he has descended to earth in nine ocassions as a hero or “avatar” and will soon return as a tenth incarnation; he is depicted as a blue man with four arms.
Focus: Defense and heroes
God power: Reincarnations, cast this god power on a group of your own or an allied’s units to make a few of them reincarnate five times when killed. They will come back to life in the same place they died.
Bonus:
- Avatar heroes can be trained at a special building; there are ten avatars, one on the first age, and three on each subsequent age.
- Temples, docks, barracks and houses allow units to enter and garrison inside, towers can garrison more units.
- Towers and walls have more hitpoints for every building improvement that is researched.
- Kshatriyas regenerate damage.
Myth tech: Tenth avatar, Vishnu grants your heroes the strenght of Kalki, the incarnation yet to come, which gives them a special attack with area of effect.

Shiva. The destroyer, the third god of the Trimurti, he is a terrible and dark god, but he has also a good side which is regeneration, he is depicted as an ascetic encircled with serpents and skull necklaces and riding the white bull Nandi.
Focus: Surprise attacks.
God power: Devastate, target an area of the map full of wood, food and gold sources to make them disapear, turning the area into a wasteland (a variation of this, could be targeting a smaller area to destroy the resources, those resources will go to a second area of your choice), it only works on natural resources.
Bonus:
- Can build underground traps, which are expensive but cover a large area, each trap will kill a maximum of 5 enemy units, there’s a maximum of 3 traps on the map at the same time.
- Can train special units that serve as movable barracks, creating units from inside them, like the animals created from pharaohs of Set.
- Siege weapons and archers have more range and attack.
- Kshatriyas can build walls and towers.
Myth tech: Scales of Nandi, Shiva greatly improves the pierce armor of all your units.

Second Age Gods
Lakshmi. Goddess of beauty, her improvements aid your villagers.
- Lakshmi gives more health points to kshatriyas.
God power: Lotus, click anywhere on the map to make a lotus flower grow there, this flower expells a fume that greatly slows down enemy units and increases the speed of yours’. You can cast it on water.
Myth unit: Apsara, beautiful, dancing nymphs of the forest and water, they can heal allied units with their soothing dance.
Myth techs:
- Heavenly sitars, Lakshmi gives Apsaras more health points and attack and increases their healing rate.
- Ocean of milk, Laksmi gives more range and armor to apsaras.
- Divine nectar, Lakshmi increases carrying capacity of villagers.
- Wealth of Santaana, Lakshmi reduces the creation time of villagers.

Sarasvati. Goddess of the arts and sciences, her improvements aid technological advance.
- Sarasvati increases the armor of kshatriyas.
God power: Illusion, cast anywhere on the map to make all your units create a double, this double looks exactly like that unit and is able to do the same things the original does, only that those actions serve for no purpose; that means that it doesn’t do any damage when it attacks and doesn’t suffer any damage when attacked, and villager doubles don’t produce any resources, doubles serve only to confuse the enemy for a while. This god power is global and blocks all other god powers.
Myth unit: Mohini; a slow siege myth unit, a ground tortoise that can hide inside its shell when attacking to increase its armor and can also garrison infantry units and archers for a bigger attack; the unit has crazy hack and pierce armor, but is very vulnerable to crush damage.
Myth techs:
- Sacred texts, Sarasvati reduces the cost of all improvements at the temple.
- Light of the Nakshatras, Sarasvati reduces the cost of all improvements at the armory.
- Illumination, Sarasvati reduces the research time of all technologies.
- Castes system, Sarasvati increases the effect of all economic techs.

Yama. God of death, his improvements aid your infantry.
- Yama increases the attack of kshatriyas.
God power: Spines, target an area of the map to make grow a barrier of thorny shrubs that hurt enemy units that approach it; it can be destroyed, but it’s better to do it with ranged siege weapons; if it isn’t completely destroyed, it can grow back to full health. If cast on water, colonies of algae grow, that deal damage to enemy ships.
Myth unit: Pishasha, evil spirits of the woods that can walk through forests and walls.
Myth techs:
- Wrath of the Adityas; Yama greatly improves the speed and attack of Pishashas.
- Abarimon; Yama grants your infantry the speed of the people of Abarimon, who have their feet turned backwards.
- Spirits of the south; Yama increases the health points and pierce armor of your infantry.
- Feast of Lamps; Yama gives a small flow of gold to your civilization.



Third Age Gods
Devi. Goddess of motherhood, her improvements aid your cavalry.
- Devi gives horses to your kshatriyas, increasing their speed.
God power: Capture; target an area full of enemy towers and fortresses to make them start shooting units of their own team.
Myth unit: Tiger riders, women armed with spears who ride a tiger, they can multiply themselves for a while to attack three different spots at a time or do three times more damage to the same unit.
Myth techs:
- Might of Durgha; Devi, in her powerful form of Durgha, improves Tiger riders to Tiger warriors, with more attack and a longer lasting multiple attack.
- The paths of Dharma; Devi guides your cavalrymen in the paths of Dharma, giving them more speed and health points.
- Iron seals; Devi reduces the cost of dutas and their training speed.

Ganga. Goddess of the river Ganges, her improvements aid your docks.
- Ganga grants torches to your kshatriyas, giving them a bonus against buildings.
God power: Ganges; choose a starting point, then an ending point, a river full of fishing spots will flow between both points, following the shortest path but avoiding buildings; units on the river’s way will be thrown away, but not killed. The god power can’t exceed a certain length.
Myth unit: Nagas, they are the snake people, guardians of the lakes, rivers and swamps, they can spit poison on enemy units, which slowly drains their health points and eventually kills them unless they get healed someway.
Myth unit: Makara, water myth unit, a giant crocodile-like monster that is the mount of Ganga, it can jump and bite units close to the shore.
Myth techs:
- Underground city; Ganga upgrades nagas to shesanagas, with more attack, armor and health points.
- Holy waters; Ganga increases the attack of all your ships and reduces their gold cost.
- Cotton saris; Ganga’s cotton clothes protect wood choppers and help them gather wood faster.

Chandra. God of the moon, his improvements aid your archers.
- Chandra gives bows to your kshatriyas, increasing their range.
God power: Sedition; cast on a group of enemy units and buildings to prevent them from receiving direct orders from the other player, they can only attack automatically (if they can attack) just as they do when they see enemies, but they can’t be ordered to do so; the same happens with buildings; villagers stop labors, lasts for a few seconds..
Myth unit: Rimi; one of the three species of the monster we usually call Yeti, tall and strong, attacks by throwing big rocks like a living catapult, it can throw a pack of smaller rocks that do splash damage.
Myth techs:
- Drinkers of Soma; Soma, the divine drink, improves the health points and speed of rimis.
- Lunar month; Chandra, and the moon cycle, makes your rathins more accurate and have more attack.
- Royal observatory; Chandra gives more range to archers.
- Drains system; Chandra grants your farms with draining systems to make them produce more food.

Fourth Age Gods
Ganesha. God of hosts and wealth, his improvements aid your senanis.
- Ganesha makes your kshatriyas cost less population.
God power: Gargantuan, target any of your units to transform it into a giant, multiplying its base attack by 1.5 and hit points by 5; armor is also increased, if cast on a villager, it also multiplies its carrying capacity by 20 and gathering speed by 10.
Myth unit: Maruts, minor storm deities that transform into a storm cloud to attack.
Myth unit: Beast of Ceylon; a giant frog with a huge pearl on its head that can swallow ships entirely.
Myth techs:
- Eyes of Rudra, Ganesha improves Maruts to Rudras, with more attack and hit points.
- Spirit of Airavata, Ganesha makes your senanis able to throw arrows to surrounding units while they attack.
- Mouse mount, Ganesha makes your senanis train almost instantly.

Kali. The black mother goddess, cruel and destructive; her improvements aid your myth units.
- Kali gives your kshatriyas a devastating special attack.God power: Black plague, cast on a group of enemy units to infect most of them with the plague, making them die of one hit; if cured somehow, units return to normal.
Myth unit: Rakshas, demons that fought Rama in the Ramayana, they can turn enemy units to your side for a short time; if the unit has a special attack, it will immediately use it and then return to your enemy.
Myth techs:
- Servants of Ravanna, Kali upgrades your rakshas to servants of Ravanna, the king of the demons, servants of Ravanna are stronger and use their special attack more often.
- Skull necklace, Kali increases the health points of all myth units.
- Arms belt; Kali makes myth units hit twice as fast (not special attacks).
- Black mother; Kali makes all human soldiers regenerate damage.

Agni. God of fire, his improvements aid your heroes.
- Agni cuts the cost of your kshatriyas by half.
God power: Ring of fire, target an area of the map to create a large circle of fire that enemy units can’t penetrate or escape from, enemy units trapped inside take damage as long as the god power lasts. If cast on the sea, it creates a ring of boiling water with the same effect.
Myth unit: Garuda, a sacred bird, the mount of Vishnu, it has the body and the head of a man and the legs, wings and beak of a bird, the body is golden and the feathers are scarlet red, it can set enemies on flames that keep doing damage for a while.
Myth techs:
- Seven tongues; Agni improves your garudas to king garudas, with greater attack.
- Sikhs; Agni gives your purohitas more attack against myth units.
- The race of the Sagaras; Agni greatly increases the health points, attack, armor and speed of the Rajan.
- Flourishing cities; Agni gives your TC’s +10 pop and your houses +2 pop.

Minor God choices:

Brahma:
Classical: Sarasvati and Yama
Heroic:Ganga and Chandra
Mythic:Agni and Kali

Vishnu:
Classical: Lakshmi and Sarasvati
Heroic:Devi and Ganga
Mythic:Ganesha and Agni

Shiva:
Classical: Yama and Lakshmi
Heroic:Chandra and Devi
Mythic:Kali and Ganesha


Loyal servants of Isis, golden mother of Egypt
I swallow the sun in a terrifying night
I spread hunger with a voracious swarm
I throw a downpour of rock upon my enemy's land
The power of Egypt is mine to command!!!

[This message has been edited by Thot_celay (edited 06-03-2004 @ 02:35 PM).]

Replies:
posted 05-28-04 11:05 AM EDT (US)     1 / 11  
Wow, impressive.
Looks really promising.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
posted 05-28-04 01:49 PM EDT (US)     2 / 11  

Quote:

Shiva. The destroyer, the third god of the Trimurti, he is a terrible and dark god

This may axplain something


Rating - ~1700

[VnX_Lime]-[Lime_the_Great]

posted 05-28-04 11:36 PM EDT (US)     3 / 11  
shivers, you destroyer you!

reincarnation seems far too strong for archaic age, and kali's ktashriya seems too strong too, but otherwise a great writeup.


Winner of May '04 "best location" award.
I'm an NDA teacher!
Winner of the original 33987-post set of AoMH's Last Post Wins!
Just a few of my insanely productive threads!
posted 05-30-04 06:45 AM EDT (US)     4 / 11  

Quote:

They scout with the Rishi, which is weak and slow like a priest and doesn’t have a very large line of sight, but he has a very useful and peculiar ability: if you point him to a tree or an animal (not a herd animal), he will get line of sight of it; animals will explore the area they would naturally wander in, and will also get the line of sight of the animals they see; trees will slowly expand their line of sight to surrounding trees until the entire forest and a reasonable area around it are covered; it also works with gold mines, you get a rather large area covered with one goldmine.


That equals to alot spy godpowers.
posted 05-30-04 08:52 PM EDT (US)     5 / 11  
Wow. That was really good.
Perhaps as a titan they could get Ravanna, just an idea.

As a Hindu myself, I have to say that despite a few necessary creative liberties, I hardly found this concept offensive.

Very thorough and for he most part accurate, I am quite impressed.

If you're into ancient history and legend, I recommend you read the story of Ekalavya (if not the whole Mahabharata). If you havent done so already.

posted 05-31-04 11:51 AM EDT (US)     6 / 11  
Thanks a lot for your replies!!

Quote:

reincarnation seems far too strong for archaic age, and kali's ktashriya seems too strong too, but otherwise a great writeup.

You are right, I've thought on reincarnations being just for one unit; or for several but they'd just come back once. And I've also been thinking on how to balance out Kali's kshatriyas, perhaps making them cost more pop. and more resources or maybe just giving them a special attack other from an instant kill, like the scorpion men's poison.

Quote:

That equals to alot spy godpowers.

Mmmmm... I liked Rishi scouting... But there´s only 2 GP's that give you line of sight: spy and vision and none of them works like the Rishis: with them you don't get LOS of enemy units, only when nature allows it... but maybe it'd be better if animal's weren't included, so, just trees and gold mines...

Quote:

Wow. That was really good.
Perhaps as a titan they could get Ravanna, just an idea.
As a Hindu myself, I have to say that despite a few necessary creative liberties, I hardly found this concept offensive.

Very thorough and for he most part accurate, I am quite impressed.

If you're into ancient history and legend, I recommend you read the story of Ekalavya (if not the whole Mahabharata). If you havent done so already.

I must say I feel flattered, hehehe, thanks a lot, actually it took me a lot of time to find all the gods, units and most of the techs (although some units are just made up). Ravanna would be great as a titan, I'll include him in the post (don't worry you'll get credit :s). I'm planning on reading the Mahabharata, but first I need to finish reading the Ramayana, which gave me the idea of this outline in the first place, but you can bet I'll check it out.

Thanks again guys, continue to post your ideas and suggestions!!



Loyal servants of Isis, golden mother of Egypt
I swallow the sun in a terrifying night
I spread hunger with a voracious swarm
I throw a downpour of rock upon my enemy's land
The power of Egypt is mine to command!!!
posted 05-31-04 01:04 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11  
norse and greek have 2 siege units, egypt has 3 if you count the elephant. Other than the senani I didnt see any human seige units, so maybe a couple more are in order.
hmmm...kinda hard to think of any without being similar to the greeks, egyptians, or norse.

in real life elephants were commonly used for this (so the senani is pretty accurate). They were countered by the fort's defenders placing large metal spikes at the height of an elephant's head on the outside of their gates. These spikes were in turn countered by the attackers impaling a horse or camel on the spikes to protect the elephant.

perhaps a seige tower that could actually roll up next to a wall and transport units over it would work -much faster than bashing the wall down. since it can't actually knock down buildings it might get a decent pierce attack in addition. or instead your archers could fire from within.

or maybe you could have a couple foot soldiers "convert" into siege units by cutting down a tree to use as a ram. you would convert them the same way you do to make attie heros. the soldiers would be pretty vulnerable during the time they were turning in to seige. (maybe they can't attack or move) since these rams can be made anywhere they would obviously be a good bit weaker than norse battering rams.

i don't know if this was used in india or not (but i also know the vikings didn't use ballista), but an old seige technique is for "sappers" as they were called to dig tunnels underneath fortifications. These tunnels were held up by wooden beams. When the tunnels were completed, the sappers set the wooden beams on fire, hopefully causing the tunnel and fortifications above to collapse. for the game the sappers might get a maximum length their tunnels could reach (22 sounds reasonable), and to kill the sappers your opponents would have to destroy the entrance to their tunnel, which would be no more than 22 range away from the beseiged building. it seems kinda OP at first but if you compare this to egypt's catapult its pretty reasonable.

[This message has been edited by Ekalavya (edited 05-31-2004 @ 01:33 PM).]

posted 06-03-04 02:30 PM EDT (US)     8 / 11  

Quote:

norse and greek have 2 siege units, egypt has 3 if you count the elephant. Other than the senani I didnt see any human seige units, so maybe a couple more are in order.

Hehe, I forgot many aspects when making this, but I didn't actually forget siege, I just couldn't think of something even close to accurate. But let's look at your ideas:

Quote:

They were countered by the fort's defenders placing large metal spikes at the height of an elephant's head on the outside of their gates. These spikes were in turn countered by the attackers impaling a horse or camel on the spikes to protect the elephant.

That's perfect for a new building tech: metal spikes, it can either increase crush armor of all your buildings, or just replace boiling oil as the tech that eliminates minimum range on towers.

Quote:

perhaps a seige tower that could actually roll up next to a wall and transport units over it would work -much faster than bashing the wall down. since it can't actually knock down buildings it might get a decent pierce attack in addition. or instead your archers could fire from within.

or maybe you could have a couple foot soldiers "convert" into siege units by cutting down a tree to use as a ram. you would convert them the same way you do to make attie heros. the soldiers would be pretty vulnerable during the time they were turning in to seige. (maybe they can't attack or move) since these rams can be made anywhere they would obviously be a good bit weaker than norse battering rams.

i don't know if this was used in india or not (but i also know the vikings didn't use ballista), but an old seige technique is for "sappers" as they were called to dig tunnels underneath fortifications. These tunnels were held up by wooden beams. When the tunnels were completed, the sappers set the wooden beams on fire, hopefully causing the tunnel and fortifications above to collapse. for the game the sappers might get a maximum length their tunnels could reach (22 sounds reasonable), and to kill the sappers your opponents would have to destroy the entrance to their tunnel, which would be no more than 22 range away from the beseiged building. it seems kinda OP at first but if you compare this to egypt's catapult its pretty reasonable.

The siege tower could be a mythic weapon that allows you to "jump" walls without destroying them; it'd be better if it had no attack at all, but still, archers being able to shoot from inside it is more reasonable (and cool, a bunch of archers making a great unit with lots pierce damage).

The "ram" could be heroic, you must select a group of at least 2 infantry soldiers (kshatriya or spasa... or maybe just one of them, to make it more interesting) and, with a small charge, click on "ram" (or something like that), every 2 soldiers get together to make the new unit.

I love the idea of the "sappers" the most. But first, I need to ask your permission to make a few changes. May I?

So, what do you think? What should I include in the outline?



Loyal servants of Isis, golden mother of Egypt
I swallow the sun in a terrifying night
I spread hunger with a voracious swarm
I throw a downpour of rock upon my enemy's land
The power of Egypt is mine to command!!!
posted 06-03-04 11:31 PM EDT (US)     9 / 11  
By all means, make any changes you think necessary. It is your guide after all.

it sounds like you have a good idea in mind, i cant wait to hear it.

posted 06-07-04 07:08 PM EDT (US)     10 / 11  
Hi there, sorry for the long absense. I finally decided to leave the sappers as they are, just changed some small details. I will update the outline soon, I just can't right now because of exams and that, but in less than two weeks, I'll be back to add the new units and ideas!

Loyal servants of Isis, golden mother of Egypt
I swallow the sun in a terrifying night
I spread hunger with a voracious swarm
I throw a downpour of rock upon my enemy's land
The power of Egypt is mine to command!!!
posted 06-09-04 07:40 AM EDT (US)     11 / 11  
I am so so soooooo offended!

Nah... j/k.

Great plan you have there! I must say, it's very impressive!

Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General and Strategy Discussions » Yet another civilization outline for AOM II
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