Although a refinement in scenario editing would be nice, I don't think ES are going to make editors for the units and buildings themselves. What I think you're suggesting is that perhaps you could choose the garments your villagers wear etc.

If that's the case, it would be rather pointless to have - just a waste of time and effort (yet it adds to this Realism).

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Nope. Look at the screenshots, read my examples.

The Warcraft 3 unit/building/everything editor was indeed very good - with a little tinkering around you could easily create new units (even if they were only variants on the existing ones). I'd be quite happy to see something along those lines in AoE3, but not at the expense of the less complex 'Change Object Name' style effects.

I remember creating a fantasy civ all the way from the bottom up using the editor!

I had floating, cloaked mages who threw fire balls, soldiers that set up barricades, and other soldiers who could build garrisonable igloos to protect themselves from the elements.

But I agree, Mechstra, there need to be triggers, too. Changing units around in-game is just as important - or more - than setting them up before-hand.

Good topic, bud!

In AoM, a Unit Editor was supposedly planned, but it apparently didn't make its way into the final version (or didn't make the final cut), as its menu can be seen in the Editor, but it was "grayed out."

It was a big disappointment for many scenario designing fans, such as myself, especially when the developers didn't seem to put their focus into getting this feature (or other editing features) in Titan's Editor, which I (and most likely many designers) bought it solely for.

Let us hope that it will be done right in AoE3.

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This would be an excellent addition. I am not very fond of having guess and improvise with impassible tiles.

A unit editor like this would be nice, but it would be essential that most of the major modifications be applicable via triggers. If the Empires trigger system was being utilized for AoE3 I would make the unit editor another tab like the camera editor. This way unit modifications could be easily applied, and designers could still perform all sorts of tricks using the trigger system.

[This message has been edited by Intrepid (edited 03-29-2005 @ 06:03 PM).]

theres no need for triggers if oyu really crazee-just make a new unit with the stats u want.

everything done and said,theres no way ensemble could ever hope to make a game as good as warcraft3 not gona happan to bad the actual gameplay in war3 is kinda weak

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Yes, actually there is, as you might want to change attributes during a mission.

For examples, in Empires there's a scenario where you have Yi Sun-Sin (a Korean commander), a Japanese prisoner of war, a Korean soldier, and a Buddhist monk. They are aptly named, but then you get to a stream that can only be crossed by a ferry that holds only two people at a time. Problem is, the Japanese soldier wants to kill the monk and the Korean soldier wants to execute the Japanese. Yi keeps them from doing so, and hence the puzzle is to get the whole party across the stream without bloodshed (which means the Japanese can't be left alone with the Korean, nor with the Monk, without Yi also being present).

Two to three attribute change change here (I don't know if the last one counts):

The speed of the ferry is reduced to 0 if it's unmanned.

The names of the characters become "Japanese who wants to kill the monk", "Peaceful monk", and "Soldier who wants to kill the Japanese".

Their names are shown as banners over their heads (OK, that doesn't really count as an attribute change, but what the Heck).

Another example is a scenario I made for Empires, set in the Viking Age in Norway. You're to chop down a tree, but first you need to get your axe sharpened. Before you get your axe sharpened, you can't chop down the tree.

One attribute changes:

Your attack is set to 0 until you get the axe sharpened so that you can't "kill" the tree for resources.
PS: I'll get back to working on it when my PC's fixed.

My final example is from the US Campaign in Empires. In the final mission of the campaign, your forces are low on fuel and need to capture fuel-carrying trucks to keep your tanks from running out. Once a truck is captured, fuel is added (measured by a variable and shown in the corner of the screen), but it's slowly used up and whenever it reaches zero, your whole force of trucks and tanks stop.

One attribute changes:

Speed is reduced to zero whenever the player runs out of fuel (and restored when he gets more fuel).

So as you can see, it can be very important to be able to change attributes in-game, far from the start of the scenario.

Midgard Eagle
Designer, Woad Creations

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Woad Creations veteran, WiC junkie

[This message has been edited by Midgard Eagle (edited 03-29-2005 @ 06:31 PM).]

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you just wasted a whole paragraph trying to argue a point noone challanged :P

[This message has been edited by Cataphract887 (edited 03-29-2005 @ 06:29 PM).]

I think they just need to make the editor more 'RPG friendly'. The sad thing is, when they made aoe2, they didnt really have RPG's in mind. It would be great if they could give us options for character 'growth'. What I mean is, they should let us choose how much HP, Attack, Defense,speed, attack speed, etc... is increased/decreased per kill(s). Maybe let us display a list of the character's inventory. And, I would like to say that they should make character editing its own tab because the less we have to rely on triggers (like change object name/HP/ and attack) the less chance of error. Triggers leave a lot of room for error. I..forget what I was getting at because I have ADD . I'll come back later if I can remember.

Considering the game is already sized up and ready to be finished I doubt they'll make any drastic changes like adding this. We've had the same editor type forever as well.

I'd like it a lot though, something like this would've zapped life into AoM mapping.

agreed, ES you really need to make this new editor for the game more user freindly than the last. This unit editor could be a good step. Easier than the old AOM way(what a pain). We realize that you dont want to copy warcraft 3, but sometimes you gotta be the follower. Editors and sc designers are what keep the game alive through the ages

They are like FREE designers that make the game better. Make our lives easier and please make it more user friendly

A good idea, but since the game's already in production it probably won't be added.

Gimmie what the title post said, and the Age of Kings editor (with the Object has Target trigger fixed and an area option on Change Name trigger) and I'll be happy as a pig in...