you forget 1 thing, at least in aom the attack is in damage/second. Isnt that also in aoe3?

The ROF is indeed the rate of fire, expressed in seconds.

ES, please make us able to modify this value with the "Modify Protounit" effect !

It gives some really cool effects if you decrease the ROF ...

@ schildpad: No.

[This message has been edited by Grün (edited 09-17-2005 @ 08:05 AM).]

APS = DPS

Grun we want ES to higher their rate not lower :S

[This message has been edited by LiquidRed (edited 09-17-2005 @ 08:06 AM).]

just like in aom, the faster somthing attacks, the less damage it does per shot. Example of where this has caused confusion in the past is with the Petachus myth unit (The lazer croc) from AOM.

Why are you not thinking about HP ?
And that Musketeers have extra dmg against horses. (Because of their sword thingy on the weapon that acts as a spear, I think)?

These 2 things makes them more expensive. But still, perhaps longbowmens are to cheap or strong.

[This message has been edited by Dav0d (edited 09-17-2005 @ 08:29 AM).]

dont worry guys.... es will balance stuff like this.... cause yeah they are quite op AFAIK

The calaculations are all wrong is what I am saying.

Petachus is a good example

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Nope you are wrong, because u din't read, or understand, the way I calculated it.
Attack per second, is the same as Damage per second of course, it's just a vice versa eyesight.

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Ye, you have to look at that urself, I don't have that much spare time. And mostly, hp = coin, flesh and wood. So the more expensive, the more hp..

[This message has been edited by LiquidRed (edited 09-17-2005 @ 08:49 AM).]

the stats of a unit are useless if it isnt damage per second

Pffff schildpad toch....
APS = DPS

If I attack a unit, who has 100 hp.
I'm a longbowman, I do 20 attack, my rate of fire is 1.50. So I have to wait 1.5 second before I can attack again.

Then it takes me (100 / 20 ) x 1.50 = 7.5 second to kill the unit... So the unit takes 13.33 dmg per second.

[This message has been edited by LiquidRed (edited 09-17-2005 @ 09:05 AM).]

I may be wrong, but it seems the longbowmen have a greater range than crossbowman or musketeers. Anyone got the numbers on this?

I find them great as defenders behind walls, but not up next to the walls. They start hitting enemies on the other side before the enemy attacks them if you place them back a bit.

Musketeers I use for attacking.

Yep u are true, another reason to be OPed...
Longbowman
Range = 22
Musketeers
Range = 12

[This message has been edited by LiquidRed (edited 09-17-2005 @ 09:08 AM).]

What the critics mean is:

In AOM/AOT the number you listed as Range Attack was already given in damage/second (for most units, for some reason there were exceptions, like the laser croc).

If that is the case as well in AOE3 you dont have to devide that number by the Rate Of Fire anymore to find the damage per second.

The ROF then only becomes of value for the graphics. (apart from a lower ROF always being better because it leads to lower "overkill" and less damage taken from almost dead enemies).

So unless you already done this you should test that the number for the damage that is listed in the files and in game actually is damage per attack or damage per second (like in AOM).

That is: Does a musketeer do 23 ranged damage per shot on something that does not have resistance (or correct for that). Or do they do 23*3 damage per shot? I didnt test this but 23 damage per shot sounds more logical, in which case you would be right (if the same applies to longbows).

Kraken

Yes, I understand.

But the attack isn't attack per second in AoE3 anymore (from what I understood), so I had to do this calculation..

i understand liquid, but i think es should give the attack in damage/second, than it is easier to see which unit is strongr

Agree, but I think they made a mistake with the longbowman, their ROF should also be 3.00 :/

It would be interesting if ES could comment on whether this is intended or not. I also thought that longbowmen fired really fast but never really thought of comparing them. This sort of thing can become highly unbalanced in the hands of a decent player...

Twice the range and almost twice the damage per second is a bit too much.

There's no way it takes an archer as long to fire as it does a musketeer or a crossbowman.

That's the advantage. They do seem crazy strong though.

Even their melee attack is to high. I mean I know it doesn't have multipliers against cavalary, but against infantry they do almost the same damage as musketteers with bayonets??

Longbowmen can only really be countered in age3, and if you see the enemy massing them, you have no real choice but to boom to age 3 and get cannons. Well at least the Spanish do.

a well microed combo of pikes and crossbowmen will beat longbows

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I highly doubt that. All 3 units move at the same speed. The longbowmen can just pick of a unit, and retreat, pick off a unit and retreat. By the time the armies to collide, I'm sure the longbowmen user can easily micromanage them to win.

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You are slightly true at the highest levels of play, but even their not really. The incoming user has the advantage and with proper anticpation he can out micro the other guy, since his crossbowmen will just whip out the longbows as they are danced since aoe3 units die so fast.

Longbowman will kill the pikes before they even reach them, and the crossbowman just have a big reloadtime disadvantage so they get pwned too.

Best counter in 2nd age must be Hussars + Musketeers IMO

[This message has been edited by LiquidRed (edited 09-17-2005 @ 11:10 AM).]

units move slwoer while udner attack as es has said, hit and run wont work (finally no hit and run it always got on my nerves, people using britons to take out my entire army that if they haddent moved at normal spped would have been anihlated)

spanish rodlerodo (sp?) kicks butt dso do hussars, longbows stand no chance ive killed 40 with 5

[This message has been edited by Byzantine2793 (edited 09-17-2005 @ 11:11 AM).]

I must admit the feature where units struck by a melee unit get their speed reduced is pure genius, thats why I prefer rodeleros to pikemen, since rodeleros move faster.

If you can ambush the longbowmen into a melee attack and then quickly come in with your ranged units you can totally defeat them. Especially if the person tries to retreat, though an experienced player would know that retreating will cause an even worse defeat and would fight it out anyway.

I think melee is very strong in this game and the ability to swarm an unsuspecting group with rodaleros and slaughter them is really fun, and it makes that spanish inquisition tech (gives +6 to LOS) seem very useful after all, since you can use that extra sight range to ambush your opponents.