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Topic Subject: A Comparison of the Values of Different Trading Posts
posted 06-13-06 09:15 PM EDT (US)   
As a player who often builds trading posts in discovery, I grew curious as to which map's trading posts offer the most bang for my buck. With a stopwatch, a notepad, and a calculator, I set out on a journey to determine which trading post offers the most xp per second. Before reading the results I gathered, please keep in mind that these are approximations, and that they could possibly be incorrect, as my mind has been thoroughly dumbed-down by summer. These are the stats for 1v1 standard maps, and do not cover all of the map spawns and sizes. The results were collected on unupgraded trade routes. So without further ado, I give you my results in order of most to least xp per second.

Edit: Upon further testing, I found that many of these statistics were incorrect because I used a stopwatch to record them, which did not account for the lag in my game. See my later posts for more accurate statistics based on the game time. Please disregard these.

Great Plains: 1.23 xp per second
Texas: 1.09 xp per second
Yucatan: 1.07 xp per second
Yukon: 1.07 xp per second
Great Lakes: (Summer and Winter have the same trade routes) 1.02 xp per second
Pampas: 0.97 xp per second
Carolina: 0.96xp per second
Patagonia (Two bays, not lake): 0.93 xp per second
Sonora: 0.92 xp per second
Rockies: 0.91 xp per second
Saguenay: 0.84 xp per second
New England: 0.80 xp per second

So, what does this all mean? Well, it can be interpreted many different ways. Say you are trying Beatnik Joe's famed BWKIC strat, or a similar one that involves getting an early trading post. Such a strategy would be very effective on a map like Great Plains, while it might not be as effective on a map like New England.

Another way it could be interpreted is that the Advanced Trading Post card is better when sent on a map like Great Plains as opposed to a map like New England.

[This message has been edited by radradrobotanks (edited 09-16-2006 @ 01:27 AM).]

Replies:
posted 06-13-06 09:20 PM EDT (US)     1 / 11  
How did you measure these times? I ask because I heard that all TPs are supposed to give the same XP/sec.

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posted 06-13-06 09:27 PM EDT (US)     2 / 11  
I got one trading post and measured the time it took for the trade cart to complete one full circuit. I then divided the amount of xp recieved when the cart got to the tp by the number of seconds it took to complete that full circuit.

So it was xp/time basically.

posted 06-13-06 09:45 PM EDT (US)     3 / 11  
Thanks for testing this out.
posted 06-13-06 09:50 PM EDT (US)     4 / 11  
id think that on great plains ATP would be worse because if ur opponets tc is stil standing u can only get two out of the three which is a waste of atp ur only saving 200 wood. but on new england u can get all four possibly saving u 400 wood and getting u alot more xp.
posted 06-13-06 09:56 PM EDT (US)     5 / 11  
^^yeah, but on Great Plains you have some really good natives.

And thanks for the recognition, Syncope.

posted 06-13-06 10:37 PM EDT (US)     6 / 11  
Hmm, those are some rather significant variations and looks to disprove my previous theory that the rate was the same for all maps.

How many different times did you load maps? Were you measuring just one trip?

I'll also dig through the code a little more to see if I can spot something useful.

edit:

RMS functions dealing with trade routes, nothing to set the xp rate as far as i can tell.
http://hyenastudios.mugamo.com/aoe3rmstutorial.htm#II8


NerVe Clan
SMF AoE3 Recorded Game Data Mod
icq: 118526591 «¦¤¦» msn: theflammifer@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Flammifer (edited 06-13-2006 @ 10:48 PM).]

posted 06-13-06 10:44 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11  
I measured the first few maps twice, but I got more or less the same results both times that I measured, so I stopped doing multiple trials pretty early on. I'll try this experiment again when I have the time, probably a little later tonight. While my results may not be enough in number to prove the value of various trading posts, they are enough to prove that there is variation.
posted 06-13-06 11:42 PM EDT (US)     8 / 11  
I ran a few tests of my own. Using ottos I dropped a tp on a socket asap and used pause to carefuly note the time.

New England
1:09
1:45
2:21
2:51

40xp - 1.1 xp/sec

Rockies
0:48
1:36
2:23
3:12

53xp - 1.1 xp/sec

Great Plains
1:46
3:18
4:50
6:23

130xp - 1.4 xp/sec

At the very least the rate is fixed on each seperatly generated random map. However there seems to be some variation from map to map. Perhaps there is some bit of a relationship to the length of the route and the average rate on that map. I think going to some larger maps could help examin this a bit more closely.

edit, few additional tests
2plr lrg great plains
2:25
4:34

175xp - 1.4 xp/sec


8plr lrg great plains

4:29
8:32

290xp - 1.2 xp/sec

I'm begining to thing there's simply another random factor involved that somehow correlates to the nature of the trade routes. Saguenay has two distinct trade route configurations, and seems like a good place to do somemore work on.


NerVe Clan
SMF AoE3 Recorded Game Data Mod
icq: 118526591 «¦¤¦» msn: theflammifer@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Flammifer (edited 06-14-2006 @ 00:04 AM).]

posted 06-14-06 00:21 AM EDT (US)     9 / 11  
the xp you get from each TP varies on some maps, stays the same on some.

the number of TP also varies on different maps, and stays the same on some.

posted 06-14-06 03:35 AM EDT (US)     10 / 11  
I did some more tests on five maps, I didn't have time for the rest. Maybe I'll get to them later. What I did this time was I took note of the time it took for the trade cart to complete a full circuit three times (To get an idea of the average time it takes to complete a circuit) and followed game time instead of a stopwatch. I did this multiple times to account for different map spawns and averaged the already similar amounts of xp per second.

I discovered a few interesting things. One discovery involves different versions of the same map. It appears as if no matter how a map spawns, a trading post on that map still generates more or less the same xp per minute.

For example, when I was testing the Great Plains map, I got three different spawns. One tp generated 132 xp per circuit, one generated 131 xp per circuit, and another generated 122 xp per circuit. Their xp per second rates came out to 1.26, 1.25, and 1.22 respectively

In addition, I found the xp per second rates of Carolina, Great Lakes, Great Plains, New England, and Yukon.

Carolina: 1.08 xp per minute
Great Lakes: 1.15 xp per minute
Great Plains: 1.24 xp per minute
New England: 1.03 xp per minute
Yukon: 1.14 xp per minute

Also, as Flammifer pointed out, this applies to 1v1 sized maps, as a map is larger if more people are playing on it.

I'll add more maps later.

[This message has been edited by radradrobotanks (edited 06-14-2006 @ 03:37 AM).]

posted 06-14-06 09:54 AM EDT (US)     11 / 11  
not using game time is a bad idea

and now it really does look like the intended rate should be the same, but something is causing a small change. Remember how farmers on one side of the tc would gather faster than those on the other in AoK? I might veture a guess that the length of the trade route is having an effect. Possily something to do with the cart reappearing on the other side of the map?

New England has one of the shortest routes, while great plains on of the longest. If Sonora has a similar rate it would support this idea. And the best test I can think of is the different routes on saguenay.


NerVe Clan
SMF AoE3 Recorded Game Data Mod
icq: 118526591 «¦¤¦» msn: theflammifer@hotmail.com
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General and Strategy Discussions » A Comparison of the Values of Different Trading Posts
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