i wouldn't be so sure cause there are much different maps in that game and moreover you have to take in consideration which civ you play against

i play usually ports so i always have to adapt my number of vills to the civ i play against - vs brit or dutch i can even go for 17 vills (it can be a bit risky i know but not really much) and against iro more than 10 is very, very risky, especially on smaller maps

look at maps: at hispaniola you can go with 7 villis up and make boats immediately and on rockies you can find yourself without food to advance if you go more than 11-12 (if you don't want to waste your time moving villis to the middle of the map)...

so i think there is enough space to estabilish different startegies in discovery age, you will play differently on differnet maps against diff civs, and you can do so much: explore, take treasures, build tp, build port, find a place for second tc (as ports) and you have some time to choose your deck...

so the discovery age is ok in the game

Maybe start as it is, but with some really crappy military unit, which could raid etc, so there is action, and descision of should I go fast colonial, and lots of variation.

I think the whole purpose of Discovery is to set you up for Colonial and fighting.
If you started in Colonial your first 3 or 4 mins would just be trying to get enough resources to sort a decent economy out first and it's very unlikely any fighting would actually take place.
Whereas you can preety much start fighting ASAP as soon as you hit colonial because you've had the resources from aging up to get you started.
Yeah if you were given alot more starting crates it could be more interesting and more action packed I agree, I'm sure ES thought about this though (didn't they?) and decided it was better to have a 1st age to set you up like in all the other Age games (I think).
Think of Discovery as the calm before the Storm.

Discovery isn't that boring, ES added things like treasures and trading posts to make it more interesting. Especially with natives it isn't because of their WarChief.

I like the discovery age, th fact other games don't have an equivalent is what makes me like aoe/twc over them. Its not the actual age I like its the fact that I know what I'm doing wereas I don't in faster paced games.

You could just start in the colonial age if it's not qs, except your rating won't increase

[This message has been edited by TinyPiesRUs (edited 04-15-2007 @ 08:18 AM).]

C&C serie + EA = sucks. C&C3 is the most overhyped game, from what i have heard online it sucks, and the campaign is so bad it makes you commit suicide.

Anyway, enough to do in discovery, laming with travois (while ago in a game my explorer attack travois, and the travois got stuck between my explorer and a couple of trees, i meleed him to dead, my team won the game). And i disagree that 16-17 settler in discovery is always best for dutch, it is not always what i do at least.

And enough to do with treasures, hunting down enemy explorer, scouting, etc.

C&C serie + EA = sucks.

C&C certainly is fun. EA sucks though. It took me more then a day to find out how to make it english instead of dutch (you don't want to play with militantenraketpelotons. Really, you don't), and it turned out complete installation wasn't complete. I have similar experiences with BF2.

C&C3 is the most overhyped game

Fable? C&C3 is quite fun.

from what i have heard online it sucks

It doesn't. It's really nice. The only problems are:
1) Rating goes up if you win, but doesn't go down if you lose. Anything less than 100 games a day won't get you in the top 10.
2) Imbalance. There is NO counter to mammoth tanks, and base defenses are OP.
3) There are 30 lobbies, each bearing no name.

and the campaign is so bad it makes you commit suicide.

I really enjoyed it.

That they seriously think we want it in dutch :S

btw, quite fun = overhyped. I dont say it isnt quite fun, i say it doesnt live up to the expectations

That they seriously think we want it in dutch :S

for all those little kids who don't understand english, probably. The bigger the audience, the bigger the profit.

In AoE3 gamespeed grows slowly, that's what I really like. You think what you're doing before you actually play your strategy. In games like C&C3 you start the game and already fight after 1-2 minutes. No time to think about a strategy. Once you start the game you have action right away.

Discovery is sort of a necessary evil for most civs. It gives the game more choices than just starting with a preset number of villagers and able to make military units right off the bat. 90% of decision making about whether to boom or rush is made in Discovery. So, part of the purpose for discovery is to test players' skills and give players time to think about how they will proceed, without the pressure of attack.

If you don't like discovery, play more deathmatch games. Then discovery is irrelevant.

Also, without Discovery there would be no curiosities like ottoman spy rush. :P

[This message has been edited by As_Saffah (edited 04-15-2007 @ 09:42 AM).]

"This Game Would Have Been So Much Better If There Was No Discovery Age"

no, i dont think so
treasure hunting, scouting, herding hunts, walling off, choosing strat during age up time, fowarding warhuts or BH... AoE III needs discovery age imho

and all the options you mention for the dutch, well, they are all viable and inn some situations better then your usual 16-17vill start

even grunt doesnt always play the 3 vills

so if you think you've wasted 4 precious hrs of your gaming time, go play a FPS or so :/

Its not that I really enjoy Discovery Age that much, but this is the style of Age of games, and I can't see it working better if you start at Colonial. To make it really works, the game would have to be changed a lot.

In the end, it wouldn't be that fast... one can make military units when he reaches Colonial because of a 15 Settler economy and the age up resources. Starting with 6 Settlers right in Colonial... well, it'd take some time to get your economy going and producing military units. However, if the starting resources were increased, maybe this could have been possible.

Anyway, AFAIK Age of Empires III has an option which lets you choose which age you want to start in, right? So, let's all play some games starting in Colonial Age and see how it goes! One could even do a bit of modding and increase the resources of the starting crates, so fight would take place right away!

An Age game just wouldn't be an Age game without a Stone Age, or Dark Age, or Discovery Age. The pacing and "feel" of the Age series is great this way. You're always feeling your opponent out, looking for him to give some sign of what he has in mind, getting the lay of the land before that inevitable conflict. Oh, and you're also hunting for treasures to aid the execution of your strats. You know as much or as little as you find out during Discovery, and your Explorer's time is a precious resource.

What you're also not taking into account is that what you do while aging up, the politician you choose (especially this!), the treasures you get, the livestock you grab, the guardians you recruit (if native), etc. are hugely important elements of the game. You must also understand how quickly your opponent ages up (is that Iro gonna rush me or FF?), the politician they choose, whether they move vills forward, whether they raise a Blockhouse or War Hut before aging, where they put it, how they distribute vills, whether they make a dock or banks, whether they go after TPs, whether they put vills on the firepit, etc. All things that can (and do) happen in Discovery.

ultimitsu writes:

i said why, he said fighting starts much sooner, can be within 1 minute of game start, etc...

Man oh man does that sound unappealing. Maybe it isn't as bad as it sounds, but I'm picturing these starts where people immediately slam down a military building and just start vomiting tanks at each other.

It's why I've never really enjoyed real-time tactical games as much. I like a good mix of strategy and action. If I wanted to just get hopped up on caffeine pills and spam units at my enemy until my hotkey finger hurt, I'd be playing Post-Imperial Deathmatch.

You must not have played Age of Kings, where you're generally not going to be in Feudal Age until well after 10 minutes.

ultimitsu writes:

but after extensive testings of all possible strats

So you've got the official, exhaustive "All Possible Strats" list, do you? I was wondering where that thing went!

[This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 04-15-2007 @ 12:28 PM).]

I like to start in discovery and try to get as many treasures as possible as well as age as fast as possible.
However, sometimes it is as fun to move to Colonial faster and have a fast pace game from the start.

That is why I set “Strategic Objectives” with 9 starting villagers and once the player captures the two near by mills, plantation, and factory, then the game is in full swing.

It is fun to play the game both ways.

C&C3 is a fun game, but I agree it is a bit over hyped.
It also has some issued with resource collecting.
I also own “War Front” which is also a good game, maybe even as good as C&C3, yet not many heard about it.

[This message has been edited by MosheLevi (edited 04-15-2007 @ 12:43 PM).]

Joe, settle down, he doesn't have the "secret OP Dutch strat".

And I used to think Discovery was boring too, until I began playing Ottoman and had to do the whole trade post thing, or the Spy thing on non-TP maps (wish we'd always start with an 100 gold crate on those maps) now in TWC.

Ender_Ward writes:

Joe, settle down, he doesn't have the "secret OP Dutch strat".

LOL... it's real, I tell you! It's real!

Ender_Ward writes:

And I used to think Discovery was boring too, until I began playing Ottoman and had to do the whole trade post thing, or the Spy thing on non-TP maps (wish we'd always start with an 100 gold crate on those maps) now in TWC.

I'm glad you mentioned Ottoman, since they were singled out in the original post as doing diddly-squat in Discovery Age. That description really didn't mesh with my experience -- the Otto Discovery seems more like the very short, very busy Discovery Age that you describe. On a non-TP map, they'll sometimes do that freaky mosque-first 1-spy thing, while on TP maps they are pressed to cut a lot of corners and play catch-up on exploration and herdable gathering because of the explorer-seconds they spend building a TP.

The intresing part of this topic:

Why is moshe green and me not and dont i know anything about it?

because you do not visit the scenario design forum and read the main page.

Then why was there a topic for seph and not for moshe (in most important part of HG)? Discrimination

I prefer nomad start, its even slower...
A game doesn't have to be about fighting only.

shilpad there IS a topic abourr Moshe too.
its called "Moshe is a Cherub"

But i said in most important part, and that is general discussions

Maybe because he is a moderator of scenarios forums only (That is correct?)