Great to know, thanks! The last one is OP.

Thanks for the info. Did you get this just from reading the files?
It's nice to see the severely OP Aztec civ get even more nerfed as they clearly had no problem defeating every other civ easily. I think Aztec got nerfed more than Iroquois.

Quoted from Ganggreene:

I think Aztec got nerfed more than Iroquois.

Cuauhtemoc agrees.

Almost like Ensemble Studios is based in Upstate New York, if you know what Cuauhtemoc is saying.

Cuauhtemoc is taking a bus trip to Canada this weekend. On the way, bus always stops in upstate New York. Upon stopping in Rochester, Cuauhtemoc will send out a Coyote party to help convince the ES warchief to see things our way.

EDIT: Also, never use "Undocumented" and "Aztec" in the same thread. :mad:

[This message has been edited by As_Saffah (edited 09-06-2007 @ 01:32 PM).]

Hey, great job Felix! Much appreciated.

It's very strange that these bonuses against Coyote runners were brought into the patch, yet Coyote Runners were the only cav units to miss out on the new ranged resistance improvement.

Quoted from ganggreene51:

I think Aztec got nerfed more than Iroquois.

It almost feels that way when you look at everything together. Aztecs have really taken it in the shorts on this patch! I can see why Cuauhtemoc is so upset.

The People of the Long House wish to thank Cuauhtemoc and his people for taking the macana on this one. It pleases us that such a sacrifice would be made for their native brothers to the north. Respectfully, the Haudenosaunee.

May a thousand cucarachas infest your longhouse!

May the Cuyahoga River catch on fire again, with you in a canoe and no paddle!

May the Anaheim Ducks put a puck in your teeth!

May your maple syrup pails be full of ants in the morning!

Okay, enough spam.

It seems like in an effort to promote less FFing and more colonial fighting, the Aztecs have taken a huge hit. While I pore over Garlef's stats with as much interest as pretty much any other forum-goer, I haven't seen where Aztecs have been OP in expert supremacy games. I do see a lot of AK and ERK laming in free for all games, but in actual treaty games > 20 minutes Aztecs are rare, people prefer to lame gendarmes or oprichniks given 30 or 40 minutes of buildup time.

The problem is, colonial fighting for Aztecs pretty much means coyotes + wc. Those two got no bonus (speed bonus is negligible, and doesn't do anything when the guys are dead). At least for casual players they are also unplayable in treaty, because of the heavy nerfs to AK and ERK. You've just taken some of the diversity out of both the casual and competitive spheres of the game. Guess who buys more products and spends more time exploring the game and using middle-tier civs? The casual player.

I'd like to hear from Garlef if he can provide us with an earlier-than-usual glimpse of 1.04 stats (say 2 weeks) to see exactly how these changes affect both supremacy and treaty. I suspect that Aztecs will drop like the proverbial treasure, to the bottom of the lake, and only find a home in treaty games on water maps (again, tlalocs weren't affected, so they're still potentially OP). Sort of the way Germans are played now - treaty 20 and plenty of mercs.

Opri aren't lame :P People often make the mistake of countering them with ranged cavalry when most melee cavalry does the job ten times better, screwing up their bump and run strategy. Either they run away from your melee cav or they take down the thing they were aiming for at the cost of all the opri.

How about Vanilla?
Are there as many undocumented "features" as in TWC?

Does Cheyenne Horse Training, Comanche Mustangs, tech now affect Coyote Runners and Eagle Runner Knights?

Does Cheyenne Horse Training, Comanche Mustangs, tech now affect Coyote Runners and Eagle Runner Knights?

No, they don't.

great

now two great aztec units have become calvary...
...
without the calvary upgrades

Outposts and Blockhouses now get a 50% bonus against Coyote Runners and Eagle Knights, the same as they get against cavalry.

What about war huts? Is it the same for them?

What about war huts? Is it the same for them?

War Huts already had this bonus before.

How about Vanilla? Are there as many undocumented "features" as in TWC?

Just two: The Nootka Chief benefiting from the Champion Nootka upgrade and the Great Bombards converting herdables.

just more reason why coyotes should have gotten at LEAST 10% RR added

Sending Strelet Horde now gives Strelets a 10% HP boost in addition to the Horde effect now.

It's nice to see the severely OP Aztec civ get even more nerfed as they clearly had no problem defeating every other civ easily. I think Aztec got nerfed more than Iroquois.

I played a few unrated games last night with an equally skilled clan mate (we both beat each other about 50% of the time). We are both intermediate in the Lieutenant / Captain rating so both can effectively micro (but far from experts). Both games were on the same map (Yukatan) and against the same civilization (Russian).

[rant] First game I played Aztec and got stomped pretty much the whole game and the longer it lasted, the more and more I got stomped. It was ugly. Then I played the supposedly nerfed Iroquois. Even though his resources greatly outnumbered mine, the longer the game stretched, the better advantage I had (once light cannon came onto the scene). I stomped him this game. Like night and day, in the first game as Aztecs, I looked like a noob even though I had been playing them for about 4 months now and consider myself fairly good with them in 1.3. In the second game, as Iroquois (who I have not touched in about 6 months), he got stomped. Same player, same map, same opponent civilization, but very different results. [/endrant]

EDIT: By the way, great job finding this so quickly!

[This message has been edited by Cyclohexane (edited 09-07-2007 @ 06:36 PM).]

2 games is an uber small sample size xD

I wouldn't be surprised if that's how the stats turn out, though. So unsurprised that I might go into a coma when I read it.

[This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 09-07-2007 @ 04:20 PM).]

I came, I saw, I newsied.

Good job, Felix.

Sending Strelet Horde now gives Strelets a 10% HP boost in addition to the Horde effect now.

This has been in effect since TWC 1.00.

It really bugs me that ES doesn't post this stuff, especially since the more content released and issues fixed, the more praise they would receive. Hell, while it certainly doesn't "fix" the patch bugs, it at least lets me feel better about cutting them some slack since these things were fixed.

I've lost too many games because my great bombards just wouldn't steal that sheep!

lol

I think it was just a glitch...you can't go Imperial in Deathmatch.

EDIT (Again): The computer seems to be able to go Imperial in Deathmatch games, but not you....

[This message has been edited by Tungsten_Knight (edited 09-08-2007 @ 03:38 PM).]

Sure am glad they took post-revolt settler wagons out. I can't count all the games I've lost to FR (Fast Revolter) Germans who spam settler wagons...

Seriously, what's the point? Maybe they read my theory about using SW in an attempt to develop the worst revolt ever...

Don't get your hopes up, we'll still be able to blow you to smithereens with our Imperial Howitzers!

I for one am gonna miss the ability to boom back (at least to some extent) after a revolution using Mills and Settler Wagons. It wasn't a strong feature and unfeasible in 1 vs 1 but could be fun in team or FFA games.

Settler Wagons can no longer be built after a revolt!

Four word expletive it! - Edited out the original, a little too strong. Sorry.

That was one of the only fun things to do! That was the only reason I would revolt. That was one of the only was to possibly, successfully (and very rarely) win with a revolt.

[This message has been edited by Catabre (edited 09-10-2007 @ 11:07 AM).]

A few things I noticed while working on my Quick Reference Guide for 1.4.

1.) TC wagons train in 45 seconds (opposed to 60 seconds in 1.3). That means it is a 25% increase, not a 33% increased as advertised in the Patch Notes.

2.) The Nootka War Chief does not receive 40% hit point bonus for Champion upgrade but does get attack upgrade of 40%. So they fixed half of it.