This is the downfall of AOE3. Precise exact movements of villies. I do feel this ruins the game becaus it starts to become so robotic. It's like you're not thinking on your own, but following orders and you better not mess up or you're screwed.

It certainly makes the game wayyyy less fun.

I know it's probably a great strat and I will try it at one point I'm sure, but no matter what, I feel like the precise things like this ruin gaming.

whyabadi, good post though.

That's why you use someone else's strat to get good, and then make your own better one once you're there.

Precise vill movements are meaningless. The game is about combat, which is always too random to predict. The game is not about where you move your vills or how many you build or when anyway...so you would be better off with a game like sim city.

I apologize if it was too exact.
Also, there are two versions of this strategy. The second one uses a Galleon instead of a barracks.
The heart of the strategy is the Landsknechts, and everything else is affected by the map, your opponent(s), and whether it is a 1v1 or not.

How on earth do you start colonial at 2:30 with 11 villies without using a vill card or food crate?

You play on fast.

All strategy games have 'build orders'. I challenge you to prove an RTS that does not use build orders. The advantage with aoe3 over aok, is the home city and unique civs. This allows for greater variation in strategies then aok saw. Everyone could flush in aok no matter what civ, this is not so in aoe3.

No, I don't play on fast. I play on medium speed.
It's because you have less villagers that you are able to advance at 2:30. Remember that villagers cost food. And by the way, food crates won't arrive on time. I will try to upload a recorded game as soon as I can.

I playtested your strategy, and you are completely right. You can advance with 9 vills at 2:30 with Germans, at the cost of a whopping 45 seconds of TC idle time. I can advance with 11 vills 30 seconds after you, have Uhlans before you get your anywhere near my village, and also have an economy much stronger than yours and easily take you out. Getting to the colonial age faster than your opponent will work a noob, but getting their faster at the expense of TC idle time or lost resources so you can't effectively train a stream of army units right at the beginning of the colonial, as well as keep up TC production, is pretty useless in my opinion. I think a good strategy balances getting to colonial as fast as is reasonably possible but also having a sound enough economy to either rush or repel the rush and go on the offensive.

[This message has been edited by lordvasa (edited 10-31-2005 @ 02:21 PM).]

I think you are right lordvasa. I probably need to adjust my strategy. How fast you advance to Colonial or how strong your economy is doesn't matter much for this strategy. I believe it's really how fast you can hire the Landsknechts! They are stronger and much cheaper ; you get 4 for 400 gold, while 4 Doppelsoldners cost 300 food and 500 gold.

Here is a recorded game with hard difficulty against British. I won in 10:02 minutes. I made many mistakes but it worked anyways.
http://www.freewebs.com/whyabadi/aoe3/GermanRush.zip

I did try it and it does actually work great. I just knocked out a real person in about 10 min.

The key is indeed the mercs. They are seriously powerful at taking out buildings.

I've found the strat works if you don't advance as fast but crank out 18 villagers, then you have alot to work with and end up attacking around the same time.

I did all the food stuff and you do need the wood card if you want that really fast age 2 advance, however, with the hunt card, or whatever it is, you need less people on food from the get go, and won't need the wood card, unless you really want the tricky, fast age 2 time. It's the same in the end, but If you aren't attacking until you build the army of 7 anyways, you might want to try it my way and test it out. The computer gave up at the same time as your method.

Basically I put 11 on food, 4 on gold, and 3 on wood. This still isn't all that much but your wood will be alot better off regardless after you advance. You have absolutely no waiting time unlike with the other strat.

When you are building your barracks, you're mercs will arrive probably the same time you pump out the dopps.

It's a great setup though and I'm glad I found it. I think it's the best German Rush out there. It's better than the Uhlan rush I've seen because those Mercs will take out the TC for sure. Getting a TC that early means only 1 thing...death.

Thank you alphaproject. I like how you did it with more villagers. It's a lot safer than mine. I will test it.

Though very hard to do, it's 99.99% wining chance if you manage to destroy the enemy town center before they reach Colonial age.

Have anyone tried the strategy using a Galleon?

:Edit:

I tried the strategy with pikemen instead of Doppelsoldners and with two villagers to build the outpost and the barracks. It went well I think. I won against hard British in 9:33.
http://www.freewebs.com/whyabadi/aoe3/GermanRush2.age3rec

[This message has been edited by whyabadi (edited 11-01-2005 @ 10:12 PM).]

Okay, I am *very* impressed. I tried your rush (with the dopples) and beat the French on Expert in 10:33. The French reached Colonial at 03:37 and I was 00:10 behind. Instead of building a barracks I built a trading post at a Cherokee village near the French, then pumped out Cherokee Riflemen. The Landsknechts cut down a couple of horsemen on the way to the TC and began the attack under fire from an outpost. The TC might have survived but the riflemen helped (I think...do ranged natives help siege?), if not directly then by cutting down some crossbowmen. Once the TC went down the valiant Landsknechts cut down a couple of coureur before dying. The Cherokees did hit & run tactics (well, I'm not good enough at micro for true hit & run) and depleted the crossbows and coureurs. When the Dopplesoldner arrived I sent the two Uhlans to help the Cherokees with the crossbows; this was effective. Meanwhile the Dopples attacked and brought down the outpost. When the 5 Uhlans arrived they joined the coureur hunt. When I couldn't find any more I sent the infantry toward the French dock...and Napoleon surrendered.

The French out-boomed me, gathering more of every single resource, but by the end there was not one single coureur or soldier left alive. There were several fishing boats, a caravel and a galleon. Surely they could have made trouble for me with the galleon; the French ended up with 3800 unspent resources.

This is all the more remarkable because (A) this was my first game with the Germans and (B) only my third game ever at Expert! So thanks for the strat!

"How fast you advance to Colonial or how strong your economy is doesn't matter much for this strategy. I believe it's really how fast you can hire the Landsknechts!"

O_O Thats blasphemy if Ive ever heard it! Economy doesnt matter...ok so..what happens if say your army is crushed all while your economy is a heap of dung? Playing against the AI is in no way a good indicator of a good strategy for online play. Now in step 10 you say to train more Dops...yet you yourself are basically advocating neglecting economy..last I checked Doppys werent the cheapest unit out there, especially when it comes to gold, let alone you paying 400 gold for the mercs.

Q:How do you deal with Dutch age 2 skirmies with your strategy?
A:You dont (Any Dutch player seeing hes playing the germans will ofcourse use the 8 pikeman card in age 2 thus raping your Uhlans).

You also realize that an Ottoman player will advance quicker than you and procede to not only crush your "rushing force" but also level your base in probably under 10 minutes?

As for the Galleon strategy...you not only have to build a dock (300 wood) but then also the Gallion which is what 500 wood and then some gold? Then ofcourse we have the creation time of the boat....plus the unit creation time...all when you could always just build a barracks or stable, save a crap load of resources-thus pumping out MORE units, and already be in their base way before the boat is anywhere near the drop off point.

Well, maybe I'm lucky but I've won about 9 games in a row using this at ESO.

They can rush my base meanwhile I'm taking down their TC.....that's fine. Hey, no one can take down TC like those Landsknecht dudes..... Man , they are tough.

If I was playing against an Otto, I might want to go Russian though, not sure.

If I knew I aws fighting Otts with Germans, I'd try to go Colonial uber fast.....the trick is having the wood to make a rax and tower in a short amount of time.

Maybe you can find some wood treasures to help but you can never count on that stuff.

But.....thanks for this great rush regardless.....I love it.

Allstarhunk, this is an all or none kind of strat though you can adjust it as you like. You can slow down a bit and advance later, but have a stronger economy. I never said it's the ultimate strat or it always works. Did you see how HermannTLomabrd did it? He used natives to support his mercs, I was the one impressed

I totally agree with you that it's very risky and can be countered easily, but if you adjust it when playing against different civ, I believe you can do well.

Against the Dutch for example, I would try to destroy the barracks and hope I do it in time before any skirmishers come out. If they do come out, then I will use the Uhlans shipment and just run away when your pikemen come

Against, the Ottomons I will support my mercs with crossbowmen and head for his TC or important buildings. Janns rush can't do anything against my buildings, but the mercs can.
By the way, the landsknechts mercs are the most cost effective unit you will ever see.

I never said you have to build a dock or even make a Galleon. I meant use the Galleon card in age2.

I have made some modifications in the strat.

So what's to stop someone from getting 8 crossbows from the card and 5 from a rax and killing all your mercs?

Nothing. And likewise, what's to stop someone from getting 5 Uhlans from the card and 5 from the stable and killing all your crossbowmen?

Nonetheless, four Landsknechts can survive for 20 seconds the attacks of one town center, two outposts, 13 crossbowmen. That's enough to take down an outpost, a house and a half (lol), and barracks if supported by few pikemen/doppels.

I believe not many got the idea of this strat. Maybe I suck at explaning things.
Both of us can attack early, both of us can defend early, but I just get access to stronger cheaper units and you don't. Only once though.

[This message has been edited by whyabadi (edited 11-11-2005 @ 11:29 AM).]

Oh yea.....I have altered the strat to use Native Cards and get the Dog Soldiers to accomplany me if the initial attack doesn't force them to resign. Then.....not much they can do. Lakota so much better than Commanche.

Mercs are just expensive, but soooo worth it. Great strat.

All I know, is that if I knew I had to defend against this strat, I'd be a bit worried. The thing is, you never truelly know. You could put up alot of towers right off the bat and hang tight. That would be the best bet, but you'd waste precious time getting the wood for it. Then, you might not be able to age up fast enough to benefit from the 2 free towers in age 2.

If someone knew that I am gonna use this strat, I expect they would train more crossbowmen/longbowmen. Scouting with your explorer can confirm it (see what resources he is gathering). In that case, I will just use the Uhlans card and take care of his crossbowmen, then send the mercs.

The best case scenario would be your enemy preparing few horses to raid you, lol. Not even cuirassers stand a chance against Landsknechts.

13 xbows > 5 uhlans. After spending 400 gold on landsneckts you won't have 500 more to train 5 more uhlans unless you slow your rush down considerably. Also, you need another card for the uhlans.

I play Germans, and honestly, I wouldn't use this strat. I can see it beating noobs and some inters, but a good player will crush it and destroy you.

[This message has been edited by ImpaledNazarene (edited 11-11-2005 @ 05:15 PM).]

I kinda agree with you. Depending solely on mercs isn't always going to work. I think it's a waste not to use them though. They are stronger and cheaper than doppels and don't require a barracks. Besides, I got sick of the classic Uhlans raid

The problem here is that people don't seem to notice this strat has probably the most important and often deciding element in any conflict: the surprise factor. He proposes something totally different that even has the possibility of being adjusted to fit different situations.

Admit it, who'd expect someone to go straight for your TC, with the capability to tear it down in seconds, when everything's about wound-the-villager and run?

Thus, most people will go for different cards other than xbows or the anti-landsknecht-cannon.. It's easy to say this will or not work when you're reading it, and it's a totally different thing to face a surprise move for real.

I'd strongly recommend you guys to read Sun-Tzu's "The Art of War".. it's short, it's fun, it's entertaining, and even more, it comes packed with a lot of wisdom. And hey - it's free!, just google it (altho I'd recommend getting the printed version. Paper > Screen)

Props to Whyabadi for coming up with something new

Swami out.

Quote:

This strat can be very deadly if person doesn't prepare for it. The first time I got taken down by a merc rush I was quite annoyed, those landschkets just would not die. If the enemy scouts you well it will betray your plan, because I'm always very weary of any German player who mines gold early. Similar to the way you can tell if a russian is going to strelet flood you if he has no villagers on gold, good scouting can tell you what your enemy is up to.

The problem with this rush is its an all or nothing rush. If the rush fails to take down the TC or enough villagers, you really dead because they will push your little forward base right back, but i really think a merc rush is one of germans stronger strats.

Check this out.
http://elcapitansgamingstrategy.blogspot.com/
A little different than mine, but same outcome. I use wood crate instead of food.
You will find two recorded games; a normal mercs rush and a double one. I thought the double mercs rush was just too scary. Even if you end up with a weak eco, 1 against 2 is just too much.

Whyabadi, I watched El Capitans and it's so much worse, mainly because his Lands died, whereas, last time my rush killed a TC along with the 3 dopps (Faster too), at least 3 of them survived. So maybe he rushes sooner, but he's weaker than I would be at the same time later on in the game. If he did that to me, I'd have more resources and more ability to come back and kill of his TC but I'd have more even money. In theory of course.

So he attacks sooner, but the TC stays up longer. In my opinion, it is similar, but not as effective if you don't get that TC down.

If you are going to attack....shouldn't it be 100%?

Oh well, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather rush a tad a later with more troops AND have a better economy.

I'll try both, but I like the wood card better because food gathers so much faster than wood period.