Age up aroudn 4 mins, get the 8 xbow card and start producing xbows from raqs. He will come in with 10-15 jans around 4-5 mins. Attack his jans from range, hit and run..... ur men out range em and jans are really powerful in full out combat... dont let em go in full out combat

Keep this up and sooner or later u will need to get a stable up. Make sure ur raiding with ur free ulhans and use uber micro with xbows and ulhans to beat the abus jan combo. Age up when u feel safe to do so and pwn him with mercs.... gl

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jans might have the same speed but the key is attack em on the T, attacking him as he is retreating, than u retreat into ur base where he wont follow..... yes u may loose some xbows but not enof to make that big of a difference.

This works against the best

Can the germans get 500 wood when they advance to colonial when they are past level 10? That could also be quite usefull.

Xbows however are not a good hit and run unit, Mokon is just plain wrong on this topic.

Yes, you can advance with 500 wood but you need to be lvl 40+ to get that politician.

[This message has been edited by bigRed (edited 11-14-2005 @ 08:02 PM).]

i've done this before and half the time it was effective. the problem was, the enemy used his right click to attack one unit... this caused them to start chasing in a line but kept on bumping into each other. I do this when i fight cavs, and it's really funny because i lose 1 unit and they lose a crap load of them...

the other half it was ineffective... it was because they flanked me from the back so retreating back didn't go so well... lol

The problem is that jans are very powerful heavy infantry. Can't go toe to toe with landsknechts (sp?) or dopples (didn't try sp) but there will be many jans and few Uber German infantry.

Mokon: if I came online it wouldn't be much fun for either of us. I'm as slow as a grandmother who never used a mouse (except to amuse a cat).

that's because light infantry mostly have a bonus against heavy ones, but crossbows don't (or am I wrong ?)

If I'm not wrong :

Janissary : Costs : 100F 25C (No Wood !)
HP 235
Ranged : 22 (12)
Melee : 18 ( 0)

Crossbow : 20F 60W
HP 100 (Res.20%) -> 120 HP
Ranged : 18 (16)
Melee : 7 ( 0)

That's not what I call a counter.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[This message has been edited by curufir (edited 11-16-2005 @ 03:18 AM).]

However, what do you do if the Ottoman is smart and goes for Abus Guns or Grenadiers? No amount of "uber micro" will let you take those out with cavalry if he properly guards them with Jans. I think the key is to damage the Ottoman himself with Uhlans for raiding and possibly Landsknechts or Doppelsoldners for taking out buildings. If you kill a few of his houses or villagers he'll have a lot of trouble sustaining millitary production.

One thing I have to agree with is that raiding with the free ulhans is tougher than it sounds. You get a little too close to the TC and before you know it, you're one down. If the Otto player doesn't have to venture far from home for his resources, the Ulhans will die. Generally, I just assume that he's starting out with the same resource base as I am. So if I see theres a tonne of resources within TC range, then I get the xbows before the Ulhans, and maybe even an Eco upgrade or VW's instead after the xbows. Then I may be inclined to turtle up a little bit.

At any rate, I've used the xbows to do a nice job on the jannies, but I agree that they're and expensive unit to use because of the wood. Doppels are great, but are actually about double the cost and pop of xbows. I do however try to mix a couple in with my xbows, or send the free ones to harass villies, or take out houses where possible.

However, Germans don't get Musketeers.

Once the initial threat of Crossbowmen are met, all the Ottoman has to do is destroy the Barracks and focus on killing the TC and any vils.

1) Include speed next time when comparing jans to cbows, corrrect me if I"m wrong, but cbows are faser and out range, so hit, run, hit, run, and don tlose a single one :P

2) I'm sick of people saying to go into meelee, jans move even slower in meelee, and all you have to do is just fire, run, fire, run, and the jans will be even slower at catching you.

The real threat of the ottoman is abus guns.

And you're right, the real threat is abus, so couldn't crossbows atleast get a chance untill the abus appear?