Turkey G-Spot for 1v1

Booming and rushing at the same time with the Ottomans Two things probably come to mind immediately, mainly why folks need a guide to play the Ottomans and the issue of: Boom and Ottomans? That doesn't make sense, Those two words simply don't go together you say. Why would you not apply full force??? Why boom with a civ that seems so OP and made for age 2 rushing? That's silly sally! What's the point? Well, I don't want to mislead you, it is still rushing, but the rush is scaled down in exchange for invaluable bonuses to your economy. Ottomans know better then anyone how games are won & lost based on the outcome of that first rush. This is a scaled down, more continuous rush, that allows you the option (or if your forced) to effectively apply other strats, and especially have a good Ottoman economy. This crux of this strat centers around its step-by-step clarity and its FLEXIBILITY - as this is good econ/rush strat. In summary this strat walks one through 1) fast ageing 2) food and wood maximizing 3) the flexibility from 1 & 2, especially 2) allows you to the native thing/post thing which the Ottos can really excel at ATM. So while their is sacrifice, their is lots of reward - and its more fun!

The Ottos' don't need to spend 800 food on settlers do they? This would seem like a unfair advantage, but "the game balancers" have scaled down villi spawn rate. Certainly you don't see the Otto's ending up with 8 (100f x 8 villis=800 food) more villagers during the second age or reach Age 2 8 villis before you do they? This villi spawn rate in the beginning of the game seriously hurts you and the typical Otto rusher will not use their most valuable card (considering the civ) - the 4 villi card for their second card. So this strat is about making the Ottoman better at booming, moving away from the throw the kitchen sink approach for FUNNER games. When you see how much slower the spawn rate is, experience how lame the Otto's econ is after your initial rush fails then you can see why that villi card is so valuable. And even if you win every single game that ever was via typical methods, if this is all you care about - get out of here! The Otto's are really fun in Age 4 on, and you can make it happen at your will. Curious? Read on?

The effectiveness of this strat:

This strat takes into account explicit times (Show later) for the most essential parts of aging up for maximum age up time while allowing you the luxury of using both of your first two cards for booming while still being able to put Turkish heat on your opponent. This strat is shown with only a level 2(or even 1) requirement, you can do it at higher levels and get better results.

This strat does not include extra perks that will be surely taken (e.g. creeping exp and goods & natives) With normal creeping, you will usually achieve much better times, - they will vary widely. However for obvious reasons, everything listed is listed as such without these helpful aspects in the name of simplicity and understanding.

You "usually" will shave 30-90 seconds off of the final 10 jann -(no jann card) time listed below. Again, if you have access to the 3 villi card, average creeping with resources and faster use of the second card will all lead you to faster times AND more resources then listed. I can easily get to Colonial before 4 mins now and with practice I can now finish it by 5 mins with a decent amount more stock of resources then shown below. Summary: using the two important villi cards first, while producing a forward barracks with 10 janns w/o the jann card, at a good time with solid options and cards at your disposal. In this respect this rush strat can look more like a boom strat. Its neither - it's the Turkey G SPOT strat!

Specs:

The critical times are 2:52 for hitting age up, 4:22 for Colonial arrival and the more flexible time of ~5:54 (all times are shown exact and in detail)

This strat is easily mastered, it doesn't require move 2 viils over here, then 3 over there, then build your house, then... you get my point, its pretty easy - but you pay attention to the G-SPOT!!! Depending on your skill level and unique game play(ers) you can add complicated layers to this strat with natives or whatever, or you can and
will experience success using just the strat on its own from both the flexibility and the bonus of having a strong economy boom with good pressure.

2350 hit points of the biggest, "baddest" uber unit in age 2 in your opponents base with ease at a good time with resources to really keep the pressure on, boom or a mix of the two.. If your curious on this hybrid approach - read ahead for more scintillating info! I promise all this text will end soon

Why this strat was made:

Players these days are very used to the Otto rush and it simply is not as effective as it used to be due to how common it is. While it is still very powerful, many good players can deal with the normal rush fairly easily - even when Otto rushers do a kamikaze approach to a fault, so I don't want to mislead you to think this is going to put anything "crazy-like" in your opponents base. But it will give them a handful (depending on your skill level) and leave you with a excellent economy for fast fortress times or -->more uber units! So in this respect - this will help the beginner with a explicit build-order and also help give veterans another Ottoman option.

One of the problems with the normal Otto rush for "many" players is the all or nothing - in your face type of approach. The Turk's already have problems with accumulating villagers slower then other civs, so this will often lead to the failed rusher losing in Age 3. This strat allows you to apply the important Otto pressure. while having a great colonial age economy. An economy that allows you to use natives, build trading posts and most unique - not using the 5 janns right away for the second card and using one of their powerful econ cards. You will usually want to use it as the third card, but the 4 villi card and shipments can be very handy to use at this juncture when exp is still slow.

Important Footnotes:
You will find some old stuff here with the new. Obviously geared towards land maps. I left out abus guns (probably most controversial part) for a couple of reasons. This strat is already too big- jk
For hitting someone's base early, the Jan has much better siege attack. This strat already pushes the envelope against better players re: speed and it involves too much of a sacrifice to have Abus and a great eco. (your asking too much)
Abus are a strain on pop and are meant to come after the initial rush in pursuit of speed and when the opponent has units that the abus can really excel at. So this isn't saying no to abus gins, simply abus after the initial attack - an abus/grenadier backed force would involve different build orders & strats and too much added detail for this strat.
Abus suck vs. villis and buildings - the two things you want to hit, typically you will have the better army anyway and will not have to worry about backing up your Janns with abus until a couple minutes later if your rush does not cripple them enough via continuous Jan spamming - like said, this strat can do jsut about anything after. Its all about setting one up for success for the first 5 or 6 mins of the game, after that, their are countless avenues to trespass.
Again - The addition of Abus is meant for another strat if wanted/needed in the first attack, you can easily build them quickly. I will also provide an easy option towards the end of ageing up that allows one to have the gold necessary for art. however, I do not think it is good due to the smaller size of the first force.
Using a portion of your Jan's in melee mode works wonders on handling their age 2 counters. While this strat is doable with 5 Jan's and 5 abus guns - it is not as effective if the opponent has aged quick & hurtled with a tower.
I would not do this strat against other Otto's.
I would do a variation of this combined with Galle(on)Sling" for Amazonia etc.
Also while it is not as effective against the high level French or the Dutch with skirmishers as such. I still find one can beat them with pure numbers and if not, you should have crippled their economy very well, while I have the benefit of not having my civ's biggest weakness exposed - early game villager count/spawn & not having the resources to use the market or natives as needed.

Important aging up/rushing numbers to know:

90 seconds to age up fully

~45 plus seconds to walk a 4.0 speed Jan & villager across the map.

30 seconds to build a barracks

30 seconds for each set of 5 Janns trained.
Reiteration of:

2:52 for hitting age up,

4:22 for Colonial arrival - 13.5 villis, 555 food, 300w, 265 gold and the more flexible time of ~5:54

Okay here goes step by step (whew)

(keep in mind this involves no creeping so your times SHOULD be better)

Separate your 6, villis, - 5 to hunting, 1 to crates - after crates, build house and get on food. Everyone on food until:

First card - 2 or 3 villis depending on your deck. For the purpose of diversity, I chose the lower 2 villi card in the strat:

~ 2:52 when you Age up! Here we choose the less common chosen
Quartermaster card on a land map. This allows us to avoid putting any
villagers on wood at all(slowest gathering), gives you more resources then the other fellow(until you get to HIGH level) and is it really necessary to have a defensive structure as Ottomans? Consider that you can make more of these later, you are offensive and shouldn't be retreating. You won't be doing this strat against a fellow Ottoman, and like said - more resources and more of the slowest gathered resource to boot.

As you hit the Age up button, take two food villis and send them to the mine, everyone else, including the TC, FOOD. So far pretty simple right? G-SPOT time!

AS you wait the 90 seconds at about the 70 second mark (its not THAT important to hit it exactly) look for the bar to be around the G-SPOT -note the arrow pointing to the letter g in the word Age on top in the Discovery Age window. This is where you will grab a villi and send it to your forward base/barracks creation point that you have scouted/picked out what not. This g-spot, takes into account ideal map travel time so that when you arrive you can start building your barracks with minimal wasted time.

Congrats you've aged up, get a villager over to that fat crate of wood!

Build your first barracks with the g-spot villager we moved up earlier & then
Back at home build another house for your 10 new additions

You will of course have a new chance to use your second card, the whole
point of this strat is to give you the luxury of not having to play the Jann card for the second card. But if game flow dictates otherwise - use whatever card floats your boat! Many options here besides the boom villi card or the standard Jan card.

Decision time: At the same time you can decide to use that g-spot villi to build resources for now, or you will have enough wood to build posts. (Other second card combinations come to mind...) Or you can go ahead and build an artillery building. I recommend the villi card and using the wood for the market route (remember long term fun!) for heavy upgrade on hunting & mines; and for the more aggressive oriented and fun as well (for now) trading posts OR going the native route - building posts and getting the Lore card <-- different but effective additional strat to mix in.

Finally, here we are with 10 no card janns in a forward base, with a time of ~5:55 that you better have beaten!

Good luck all and feel free to offer your additions, or things that you think might improve it - or later: how it worked for you. Especially - if you have a good suggestion in this vein - doing something similar against other Ottomans. While they are not necessarily harder, I find it more effective to go kamikaze or turtle up and let them take heavy losses and hit them with kamikaze the. Either way games in 1v1 never go long against fellow Ottomans - something I would like to do at times.

---

Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

I didnt read it cause Im never Ottos but I must say, this is damn impressive.

hehe, looks like someone should be putting more energies into the other g-spot. jk You defintely made this in a nube friendly way, this should help out a lot of players: Overall = super job. I consider myself a rook/intermediate player and I am looking forward to trying this out. This isn't the normal way I play the Ottomans, but some good stuff in here. This thing is insanely long, it took me at least 15 mins I think.

I find myself pawning or getting pawned usually when I play Ottoman and this seems to offer good stuff for mid game variety - no desperation in waiting for my great bombards. But yes, I would not play this against another Otto player - otherwise this *looks* very doable.

Another one of your loooooooong posts! Good job in making it look pretty and stuff. Although I like to disagree, this all looks right on the money. If I was going to have a question, it would immediately be the lack of Abus, not using abus guns, that seems scary for countering native rushs and some Dutch. I guess it depends how early I can pull this off. So I'll see if Jan's are really better or not., I like how it leaves me open for my native attack.

I will have to try and see if I can make abus in time and if I can still hurt my opponent using a different second card, that still seems risky even as Ottos. But I haven't tried it :/ I usally don't even build mosques, I might build another TC or two but I am all about hitting hard and quick. I'm ready for change though, I'm running into too many strong French.

Your ageing up & resource numbers look good by themselves, even if the starting army is not that large. I have a high level deck and I do the "creeping" think well so I am positive I can make do better then those times with that stuff. It is kind of odd in a way that it is "not meant vs. Ottomans" Otto's since their are so many of them. But I have noticed that a lot of the more skilled players have been changing away from Ottoman - mostly to French (arrrgg). Thats who I really want to try this out on as everyone is going French. I don't have much trouble with Otto myself, but ask the other guy, I think he would disagree

Anyways I can tell this will defintely set you up with a good econ for a Ottoman as I never use that peon card unless my rush failed etc. I don't know if this spells victory but I can see it stopping someone like the frickin French from booming or having a good eco and letting me at least have a equal chance after 15 mins. I like to use natives with mine, I think once I get it down to 5 mins whatever -will see, I wll try to work in natives. This is huge on making wood and food quick which is just what I never have enough of. You used those times well and put the slow wood issue out of the picture. I think this can be made even better with the use of higher cards- like 3 villi card/possibly the mint card along with good market for a FF. While I do like pwning with my normal rush, I do like pwning with Great bombards. This defintely seems to give you good position in ageing up. Good job on organizing all this info together hippo.

Nice graphics and i like ur G SPot thing

Thanks! One is always up for pot-shots when you ship a strat out for wandering eyes on Heaven's forums , and considering how long this one is - can feel like a silly arse if it's a dud. While its meant for the new-intermediate players to step it up, it feels nice to have a couple of expert players not rip it to shreds/comment. Especially Mokon as you have made some very good guides. Actaully Mokon are you elite/pro in - this game? I can't recall since I don't know your ID. No worries though, I like to keep mine private anyway. And Greatone, I used this on you before :P

re: the abus thing, yeah I addressed that. I think the options to go native or put your economy on steroids is worth it, you can still go abus with the switch mentioned (albeit, I wouldn't) or in future attack waves which you are able to do quite easily. For me I spam Jann and keep them blanketed until Age 4. Or I go for the kill with natives or Abus guns depending on my mood or the skill of my opponent. I am starting to use natives more and more and saving gold for one merc army in Fortress and artillery. All funner things as well. Nothing beats a Great Bombard though - I agree. and "note the arrow pointing to the letter g in the word Age on top in the Discovery Age window." yes I did go for the "super detail" so that new players can pick it up

Some additional info that is useful for this topic re: numbers
both the villager spqn rate, and the mosque rate increase are listed
I'll go ahead and throw in Gathering rate info, as it can help you choose another variation after this one, or mixing it in/improving it as such.(And its tiny )

The Ottoman villi spawns are compliments of Arctic_Aurora's from GRS

Quote:

K, so Arctic_Aurora^^^ came up with some real useful data for Ottomans, very useful IMO I actually was buzzing around in the data files today for gather rates and stumbled across the training points I will list the training point data and the gathering rate data for anyone that can use it

Training time & Gather rates listed

Got some more specs snooping around the data files
All in the proto.xml file

boat =25 trainpoints
All attack boats =40 tp
settlers & settler wagons =25 train points
coureur & Cour. Cree =29 tp <-- aprox 16 percent slower
infantry =30 trainpoints
Cavalry =40 trainpoints
All Healer types =40 tp
artillery =45 trainpoints
native inf =20 trainpoints
native cav =30 trainpoints
ALL mercs = 20 trainingpoints
minutemen =2 trainingpoints <-- should be called 2 secondmen
All "wagons" & outposts =60
rocket =98 tp

So it looks like training points are very analagous to seconds. As I have timed most infantry training at 30 seconds (up to 5)
Also of interest is that regualr infantry take 50 percent longer to train then natives...
I am still unable to to find the other civ balancing issues, e.g. I suspect that other civs have different balances in different spots, however, I have found the 25 second rule for normal villagers to apply to most all...

Excellent info!
I think I have found enough info that can put the picture together (not just for Ottomans ) - defintely ideal for producing context And peop;e complain about the Ottomans being OP, this data shows why the Otto economy is so sucky and how important the first upgrade is, and getting TC's up ASAP. (their could be a diminishing returns rule in effect here with TC spamming though :/ ) I find this to be very helpful data if someone wants to improve balancing out the Ottomans, <--hehe - the Ottomans economy (wood folks?) and well, good stuff in general to memorize.

If someone could come up with some help on finding the civs balancing changes data spot to these core rates & training times, this would be the icing, but for the Ottomans - this is very helpful o_0

Gathering rates

Gathering (context)
Crates=15 for Coureurs only 10.0
Rates - wood, mill, min, plt, herd, hunt, berries
settler ---- .50 .67 0.60 .50 2.0 0.84 .67
set. wag- 1.0 1.34 1.00 4.0 1.7 1.2 1.34
Coureur -- .62 .84 0.74 0.63 2.5 1.04 .83

Conclusion on gathering. The settler wagon is nice!!! While the Coureur seems to have a 25 percent bonus, things like French mills produce at 20 percent less so they net only about 5 percent returns (again need to find the balancing data for all civs), however for hunting & mining... Not sure if similar production issues affect the Germans, but suspect that some Civs (like Ottomans, French, Dutch) differ (maybe all?)

EDIT: I think the miserable (almost twice as bad spawn rate compared to everyone else) shown in the above data - further emphasizes the importance of getting the free villi cards if you want to stand a good chance after a failed rush.

[This message has been edited by hippocrack (edited 11-26-2005 @ 04:46 AM).]

Damn these strategies travel fast. I just had someone try this against my Ports. Sending villager cards and forward building the base at the g-spot lol.

In the end I can tell you the lack of abus guns hurt that player far to much.

I take it your still undefeated You have turned to a real powerhouse Ceres, I don't recall you from previous Age HEaven games (forums). Have you played these before? Your record is quite impressive especailly as port.

Re: abus guns, yeah I hope no one thinks to leave out abus guns for too long - Especially against the ports. You must have excellent micro skills to beat off the ottos so time after time. <-- which is exactly what you need. Defintely need to work in abus guns or good natives ASAP against good military micro players - you must be one. I would like to see one of your recorded games against an Ottoman or play you. You should deposit a game at Sanctuary or GRS. Defintely GameReplays.org <-- I am curious if you win very often in Age 2 as such. I find the people that can push off Otto attacks as ports interesting. "Usually" ports are no match They seem to do the TURTLE>RUSH philsophy, but knowing this going in, you can really wreak havoc on their economy. But I think having a good economy against the ports is important since some are so good at turtling with them, (yet if I have age 4 games they always seem to be against the ports - so they are fun to play against), so I would like to see one of your decent Otto games - I think it would be helpful anyway...

This is exactly what I was looking for at a site like this. (I am new here) Not playing the "Ottomans civilization" now: but I want a step by step guide that I can master that is efficient. This will make me better quicker on mastering my armies. I will try out them out now without having to guess my way through too with random tips as this one seems to list all the good basic stuff as well. I really like the villagers of them, this reminds me of Age of Titans. I think because its like having auto-queue on your villagers without having to worry about food so its better. I can see why new players like to play these guys. I want to do them so I can keep a better eye on my battle scenes and get better with my military aspects. Since I am at work I will print this out
I also need some good unit stats, I havne't found a good place for this. I foudn one that used flash, but I didn't like it. I would jsut like a spreadhseet or HTML tables like Heaven has for other games.

This is the first HG forum I've been too.I did play AoM quite a lot, but was never very good.

I'm not undefeated with ports, it says so on the stats page but it is incorrect. I have about 12 losses as ports infact, it just never records my losses as port (it records them as spanish though). I think all are losses to only Ottoman and french, ottoman when i first started using ports, and french more recently.

I think most port players give up too soon against ottoman. I just had a 55minute turtle fest against an ottoman player just now. I literaly turtled the ENTIRE game, but from experience I knew that I was winning slowly even though half my villagers were almost permanently garrisoned. Slowly but surely I was able to replace my lost units much quicker than the enemy and in the end I just busted out and obliterated him.

As always my favourite replays never gets saved but if you look at my portugal guide at the link below, I uploaded some replays of me defending ottoman rushes. My style has changed quite a bit since that time, and my new style is a lot more safer than the ones in those replays.

Check out replays 2 and replays 3 to see how I turtle the ottos. Replay 1 isn't a very good game so don't bother with it, it just shows a build order really for a Fast fortress.

http://www.personal.rdg.ac.uk/~spr05csb/

ps, i think its good that you are looking for alternative strats for ottoman, its about time someone tries to be original with them!

[This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 11-26-2005 @ 06:00 PM).]

This looks really good - I'll be sure to try it next time I'm playing someone whose not likely to build cavalry this early

I'm glad someone else appreciates the normal UI instead of minimized one.

I like the normal UI.

I play this way as well=) I always see Ottos make the mistake of not collecting food right away- makes em lose. Nice guide!

Well-written. The pictures are good too to support the guide. Well done.

Awesome Who else would have thought of that

^^^
A freak like me

I'm glad that some more folks will give it a spin - and no I'm not trying to soften the Otto competition heh, getting those 4 villi's are huge for any civ (that even has the option) and for the almost twice as slow villi spawn rate of the Otto's - its needed. I lot of one's success will be on their times. e.g. this strat is 90% more successful at sub 5 mins then 7min etc. And yes, Go normal U.I.! on that I must admit that I am more spoiled then others playing on a 32" LCD screen<-- does help "open" up the screen. But then again, I used a lot of tweaks in AoM, but on this game, I find hotkeys are the most useful tweak so far. What were they thinking?

@ calvary bit - a bit from above ^^^ - calvary virtually never cause me issues as Ottos no matter how I play them. While Janns are slow, the build is fast enough that if someone wants to do the whole counter rush thing, Janns own calvary - re: unit speed issue - point taken about the tower, but one has so much wood a/o option to use 2 tower card or natives or a nearby ship that... Main thing is calvary never bother my Janns (only my abus - and I protect art well with Janns) and I keep the villi's close early game - enough so that my third card (Jann/outpost/whatever) is a viable option if needed there - they can't get in my base and slow me down (enough) before I start putting the hurt on. I'm not sure thats the case for all players as I am very used to raiding from AoM.
The whole raiding thing is really another aubject and if its more about the Otto 'weak' counter attacks Use the scouts well and its not hard to make them wish they hadn't wasted any units or cards in your base, its just makes it easier to hit their base. If non-turtlers want to stand a chance I find that they can only get a sizable neough force with using a large crate - I really watch for this, epsecially the gold , unless they already have a barracks up(very often not) then my focus is gold pits & crates after and during the counter attack. emphasis on timely execution...

@ Ceres (meant to hit submit on this one yesterday)
I will check out your game on Sunday night or Tuesday when I can get to my game PC again. I cannot imagine playing the ports, but I eventually want to play all up till my skill level hits its normal ceiling - rinse & repeat Its finals time through 12/12, but after that I should get some more quality time

Definitely agreed on the Ottoman quote about giving up too soon. People often quit against me when I have 0 econ and would not be able to beef my force with any substance for a while. The early devastation jsut throws em's off. Thats why I don't mind ports, as I can handle my own in age 4 anyway aginst them. But that low fun factor of wins over play AND wanting to still play the Ottomans is why I tried to creative with making them stand up better then normal later in the game. People say play a hard civ to make yourself better. Well, playing Ottoman without natives or a early rush is very challenging, it requires good micro, very good protection of your villi's, larger map control and effective use of the all-bow down to the Great Bombard!

Longer games, like the one you described are the ones that make you get up from your chair with a good sense of satisfaction, whereas the early game win is more of a temporary adrenalin rush that wears off quick and you don't come away learning much or improving at that rate. Assuming your a very good player, in AoM, what you described - I cannot imagine being possible, so that is what is better about this game. Especially for the French This game is better then AoM in that respect, where longer games (45 min plus) tended to be more of: annoying stalemates<4 me> and it was more about whoever let their guard down - A.D.D. I like this game more in that respect.

I'll check out your link and the two rec. games, I normally watch a lot of rec. games (fast- as the tool kinda sucks) . I have seen a few of HERO's games (as port) and watched him do some kewl stuff, but his micro skills are very hard to emulate. Like said, I watch quite a few. GRS is kewl as a couple of the admins are pro's, and expert players will take the time to watch and review your games if you have a decent rating. Helpful reviews & their portal stuff is really excellent for stats, pics and guides. I briefly looked at your guide - your just like me I will look to be contributing to your bit about Rodo's . Everyone seems to have an opinion on those guys - including me.

bless u hippocrack.

bless u bless u bless u

It is a very pretty looking guide (I like that) and the name is... interesting lol!

gj

This strategy is ridiculous. And I mean that in a good way. I have used this is eveyr game so far without a single loss yet. It is absolutely invincible with some minor tweaks.

Here's some changes/extensions I do:
-Send two villies instead of one to build forward base, you'll shave about 5-10 seconds off the time and you'll be able to build your forward base a lot faster. You really won't miss those 10 resources you lost too.

-In this order I build for my forward base: Rax, 2 houses, (gather a little wood) Artillery foundry.

-Send in the ten jannies and wreak a little havok. Kill as many villies as possible then retreat as soon as they start to build up counter units. The retreat is the most important change to this strategy. Between tower, TC, and xbow/skirm fire you'll lose about 3-4 jannies. Retreat immediately.

-Start moving villies over to gold. I usually have about 10 food/0-1 wood/11 gold by this time.

-Max your resources on your army. Just alternate between abus and janny creation until your shipment of 5 jannies from your cards reaches your forward base. By this time you will have a literally unstoppable force. There will be about 10 abus and 15 jannies (estimation). Use the jannies on melee mode to immediately take out towers and micro the shit outta your force to kill any hussars trying to get your abus or skirms for your jannies.

If done right there is virtually no stopping this rush. The only forseeable way to do it is to MASS towers and use strategically placed walls to protect villies. Your best bet is to sneak hussars around back to get the abus, but even if you do that the rusher can just move the jannies back to create a cavalry-eating meat wall to protect them. PROTECT YOUR ABUS AT ALL COSTS!

I have not lost a game using this with my lvl 32 Otto's against good players.

I decided to try this as well and now am definitely back to playing Ottomans I got tired of their game being decided so soon in the game, - where its just a losing battle if they snuff out your first army. I am doing almost this exact strat and I think it is so effective because I can do so many different things with it. I do my native rush as usual depending on the map still too - which actually it works very well for with the wood count as is - it was a easy strat to do. So far 8 wins undefeated with it, but I remember now how powerful these guys are, as long as it is fun I will keep using them. But I do not feel so guilty with this strategy as it is not just a full force rush, its like a normal rush, except you can sustain it better, non stop often. I use it more like a keeping them in check, and deciding how I want to take them down so far... Its very important to do it in good time though.

Just like the fellow above me, I like to mix in abus guns, I take about 4 or so hunters and move them to the pit as was suggested at when I hit age up about. The times end up being the same but I use half abus and rush to the base, use and protect my abus range to cause him to hide in his base. Normally they flip out military card or in anticipation of my rush will already have taken a villager off somewhere so that they can build barracks and come back with a decent force. I found that I have a lot more resources flowing in depending how I move them after my set of 10 so that I can even if they play sneaky I have enough resources and options to make them pay permanently for garrisoning their villagers. I have been making them pay for keeping their villagers garrisoned. When I lost as Ottomans before it was due to my first wave losing, and when I brought in my next wave or two they had caught up economy wise and I couldn't break them and I would lose inevitably. equal dull or annoying b4. I have done the map pwnage thing, with their villagers hiding in torture like frightened peasants or I had to retreat once - a French player that threw in some Coureurs. This was the hardest counter so far. Next time I go against French I don't think I will use abus. French are really frustrating though, because if you don't go abus then they will make skirmishers on me, and if I do make abus then that coureur thing can happen (obviously) People are getting more bold with their coureur. I need to hurt these blasted French folk o\/o Every second counts against them, you must get to them as soon as possible.

I tried this against 2 Ottomans though and its worked excellent. I didn't go natives either. It was all about getting map control in the middle first and this strat is quick for that. I haven't been using my Jan card either at all, except against the Ottomans. I also have two very good long games, I never used to win long games with Ottomans, I am not sure how much of that is my experience or the strat as this strat is deceptively simple to pick and do for how long it is. This strat is more like, how to do Age 1 best: then do whatever you want to or deck or game style that pops up from your opponent . So good job in making Ottomans fun to play again for me <-- for now

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[This message has been edited by Supersammy (edited 11-28-2005 @ 02:23 AM).]

Yeah... good job man...though i'm too lazy to read it all...
Personally I use ottos too, but I got a bit different strat...(not sayin it's better tho).

Ottos got plenty of wood at start so i always make my explorer build tradingpost on a route so i get those shipments faster.
I just always get the 500wood general so basically I don't need to have a single wood cutter until age3.
As I get shipments faster I get the 2 vills shipment and if I got my tradepost up fast enough I also get furrier. Then in age2 I get the 4 vills shipment. But because I got the tradepost I can get the 5 jans shipment AS WELL before I have to make the attack. I usually have 25 jans before 8 mins or so, meaning that enemy is usually a bit prepared but they can't take 25 jans anyways... works mostly.

Note that a little work could possibly make the 8 mins be 7 mins.

I got a lv8 HC now and that's my 1st HC so I'm still very new to aoe3 but I was expert in aoe2 so I quess I'm getting the hang of this quite fast.

*edit*

Came back to say that if I had that 3 settlers card I could use it instead of furrier, which would lead to VERY good economy, but the "rush" would go a bit too far...to 9 mins or sumthin... btw when I got 25 jans usually more than 15 survive, meaning I can get them to defend my town and focus purely on economy for a while to get age3.

Hmm... If I really got those 3 AND 2 vills cards then I could possibly do the 5 jans card as 1st in age2, well, not really, I like the 4 settlers more...

*2nd edit*

YAH... had a wonderful game today.
I now got lv11 HC so I have that 3 settlers card.
I used that as 1st card and 2 settlers as 2nd card then 4 vills as 3rd card and 5 jans as 4th card.
I managed to do the 25 jans rush at 7.04 (they were ready at that time at my base, 30secs more and enemy resigned...) which surely sometimes is even better than hippo's 5mins rush, if we count that economic advance my strat includes.
The only problem seems to be lack of wood cz I have to build the mosque at late age2 to get the more settlers research.
Well... that's not a big problem ... I just have sum woodcutters then...maby I focus more on wood once I have those 25 jans up...

Anyways...hippo...anyone...plz comment my strat...I wanna hear if u like it or not...

[This message has been edited by kipale_fin (edited 12-08-2005 @ 08:39 AM).]

Guys,

I have a new strategy for Ottomans which works even if difficulty is Hard... It's the JaniHus strategy (for Janissaries and Hussars). It works only in late ages (Industrial or Imperial) but very powerful to besiege with Mortars or Bombards. Useful against Dutch.

First, you need a very big economy (that's why it works more efficiently at Age 5). All your first settlers are on food (except one or two on wood), then try to balance the number of settlers per resource when you play. The aim is to go to Imp. Age as fast as possible. The average time needed for advances is shown below (Food/Wood/Coin) :
- I to II: between 5th and 8th min (7/4/5)
- II to III: between 15th and 20th min (10/6/7)
- III to IV: between 30th and 45th min (15/12/12) [2 coin for fishing boats]
- IV to V: between 50th and 65th min (20/20/24) [4 coin for fishing boats]
Don't forget, create many military units! The JaniHus strategy works especially on Skirmisher-and-Hussars civs like Dutch. Create 25 Janissaries and 20 Hussars with 3 Mortars (when you are at Ind. Age). If you are on Hard difficulty, use your army to stop enemy assaults. When enemy is tired, try to besiege him with your artillery. The key of victory is the technology: research all techs as fast as possible!!!
I used this strategy in a 2v2 game (me and French vs. Spanish and Dutch) and it worked! So try it too vs a Dutch opponent and you'll see!

Why the Dutch? Diceclock, let's burn this guy.

It seems like now, with alot of people going FF, its very hard to pull this strat off all of a sudden. This strat worked wonders a week or two ago, but against namely another Otto or the French, it is just too hard. Or perhaps I am doing something wrong? I can usually beat the rush time above and usually just go for the villies, then barracks/town center.