You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: The Russian Winter: Multiple Russian Strategies
« Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 5  Next Page »
posted 01-03-06 10:28 AM EDT (US)   
Originally posted here http://pcgamejunky.blogspot.com/

Russia is a very diverse civ with huge amounts of potential but a few things make Russia less favorable compared to other civs. 1st thing, block training, vils train very fast and cheaper but only in blocks of 3, this could have a very profound effect on your age times as well as all future production. If you want to get to colonial age fast you'll pull a 14 vil build with a food crate for faster aging. If you want a FF you may choose 17 vils in discovery age to get enough coin/food prepared for your faster age time to Fortress age.

Russian units are weaker, but cheaper and train faster, Strelets are paper but when mixed with musketeers and grenadiers become a huge attack boost at very cheap cost.

Cossacks make for an awesome cav force... 100 cossacks will put up a damn good fight no matter what they are up against, there is power in numbers

Cav archers are just simply the best anticav unit in the game IMO, they pwn cav like nothing else and only lose to doppels, dragoons, and skirmishers. Great unit

Opris obliterate anything that makes resources, from the vils that gather to the mills that produce this is the best raiding unit in the game.

Russia has a lot of potential, it just needs a little nudge to unlock that potential, I will try to give it the nudge it needs (with the help from my clanmate WhiteCrow), here goes...

The first strat I wanted to test is a Team Strat for a FF with cav only... it's a pretty good strat for team games with 6-8 players not so much for 2v2. I call it "The Russian Stampede"

Basically you want to start with a basic Russian FF build, that's 17 vils, 1 300 food crate for your first shipment, age with the 500 wood politician (level 10+), once you age ship 700 coin. while aging you want to take 4 vils and put them on a mine, you will have about 300 coin almost exactly when your shipment is ready send your miners to collect it, while waiting on your shipment to arrive queue 1 batch of 3 vils to go on coin you can then almost immediately advance after only 50-60 seconds in colonial (once Russia hits level 50 they get the faster age time politician which is extremely helpful for this strat), choose the cossack politician for less population usage and it also fits into the strategy of a cav army. While aging start building your stable and your houses with the wood from your politician, the 3-4 vils you have building houses/stable should go to chopping wood right after. Once you hit fort you should have enough wood to build at least 1 more house, queue 10 Opris and ship 6 more from your home city. you will be ready for extremely heavy raiding by about 8-8:30. Have your team mates start attacking at about that time and you start raiding. Once you start raiding and your allies start attacking you will be able to see which Cav you will have to start training next. If they go heavy Skirms then you go Heavy Cossacks, if they go Heavy cav you go HEav Cav archers. Your role will not be to win the game but will instead be an extremely mobile reactionary force. You will be the team mate that no matter where the fight is you will liekly be there to help before the battle if over. You will lose a lot of units but you will also only be there to help your team to victory so don't expect much glory out of this strat.

Cards that will help you.
Advance Arsenal- pillage is a tech that is a must for your cav army, try to build your arsenal asap without interfering with the normal build, like if you get 250 wood from a treasure.

300 food card - a MUST for a good Russian FF

700 coin card - Also a MUST for a good Russian FF

Cavalry HP and attack card - Good to have to boost your Russian cav

Boyars - Nice Cossack HP/Att card

Faster cav training - a MUST have for this build, or else you will be training cav extremely slowly...

Natives that will help you out
Lakota - faster training cav is a must
Commanche - the cav bonuses are just something you can't pass up.

This build will work against every opponent civ, because Russian cav are for the most part very cheap and in team games you are usually afforded more time to boom this build can be effective against all other civs. THOUGH you may have a slight problem against French (of course), Ottoman(duh) and Spain(where rodeleros really shine is vs an all cav army :P). Try it out.

The "Russian Shock Assault" a 1v1 strat

The Shock assault is an all out rush (this is the build that is also applied to the Double Edge Sword) that is meant to cut the legs out from under and lop off the head. It's a 14 vil to age build (with the 300 food card), once you hit 14 vils you need to age and move 5 vils to coin and 2 vils to wood (age with the wood politician) this is a forward build so you need to move your 2 wood vils up front and to the side of the other player. You want to send a 300 wood card with your second shipment so you can start a a blockhouse early and instantly start cranking out muskets once you hit colonial. After you have that built queue a batch of vils so they can start training right after you hit colonial. the idea behind this rush is houses+troops=shipments, you will get an extra 2 shipments fast with this particular build because you will use the 500 wood from aging+the 100-200 wood you already have to plop down houses. This will go to your XP, but what also will go to your xp is the training of the 30 muskets you will use to kill your enemy. before you get out your 3rd batch of muskets you should have a shipment, send faster inf training it will help you more than you could imagine. You will get about 2 more shipments before you are ready to atatck, send the 5 cossacks card next and then the 13 strelets. You don't need the 13 strelets, they are there to add effect to your rush i.e. make your enemy crap himself from the sheer volume of troops you are sending at him. After you have about 25-30 muskets send in your troops and use all future food for vils to boom with incase you fail.

This build is a very effective rush, of course this is the basic strat and is basically a strelet rush but is WAY better than a strelet rush it's also faster than a strelet rush due to not having to spend wood on houses/strelets you get a lot of houses and a lot of infantry without much conflicting resource usage.

Watch out for early skirm civs, early natives, and counter rushes. If you land this on a boomer there is a HUGE chance you will score a knockout blow, in many cases I hit with this build before the enemy even had troops trained. Attack the barracks first! always in a rush attack the barracks first if not then you give the enemy a gateway to whoop yo arse! Cards needed are listed after the next strat which is this strat x2 with some timing considerations.

The "Russian Double Edge Sword" a 2v2 strat
The double edge is a VERY powerful infantry swarm rush that takes place at about the 7 minute mark. In 7 minutes you and your team mate will need to each muster up 25-30 musketeers, 13-23 strelets, and 5 cossacks a piece.

What the Double Edge is meant to be is a duel rush, but there is a timing that needs to be taken into account. The build is very simple so I'll get to that soon but the timing is hugely important. For the double edge to really work well you need to have 1 player build a blockhouse/galleon near the enemy base (forward build) while you build yours closer to your base. This will give even the best scouts the thought that you are going to boom while your mate rushes. This is where things go horribly wrong for the other team.

You want to have your ally start cranking out muskets asap he needs to send 13 strelets and 5 cossacks, this force will be the main attacking force. YOU will be doing the exact same thing on your end, BUT because the enemy is looking at the rusher who forward built they will be less likely to see that you are rushing too once your armies are both trained and ready have your ally go in and try to rush the guy he built closest to, at the same time he sends his troops you send yours at the other guy. thinking that the rush is one pronged they will both likely have their armies defending the initial attack and you will have freedom to really pillage the guy you hit. Attack the barracks first then outposts, then houses, then TCs. once the one guy realizes he is being bum rushed he will either panic and run his troops back home giving your ally a better chance to do damage there or he will try to make another defence force i.e. another barracks, more houses, but above all he will have vils out of his garrison for you to kill. Since you are Russia you will be able to reinforce yourself much faster than other civs and since most players can't afford a large enough force to deal with this type of onslaught without really sacrificing economy or having an ally help them you will likely beat the snot out of them.

Cards that are needed

300 food card - faster aging

300 wood card - you will send this for your second shipment and use it to build your blockhouse.

faster infantry training - will be the first card you send in colonial (you'll be amazed at how fast this card will pay for itself)

13 strelets - needed for effect

4-5 cossacks - depending on what level you are these cav will be needed to take out xbows/age 2 skirms (if you are facing dutch/french then you should have your ally send his cossacks to help you fight off the early skirms)

700 food card - if your rush fails at least you have enough food to get back to booming.


I hope this goes a good way into helping people figure out more strats with Russia, I will post more when I have the time as for now though I am pressed and need to get back to work. I have at least 3 other strats to post once I get a better idea of what build to use for best results.

Any questions just ask, I am pretty tired writing these strats and probably left a thing or 2 out so ask away

Enjoy!

Coming soon "Russian Thunder wave" featuring a grenadier rush and the "Russian Swarm" featuring a FF infantry horde
TGE


TGE's RTS Blog, news, thoughts, and advice on RTS gaming

Able Company (my job)

"I've kicked more ass on accident than most people have on purpose"

[This message has been edited by TheGoodEvil (edited 01-03-2006 @ 12:04 PM).]

Replies:
posted 01-03-06 10:56 AM EDT (US)     1 / 107  
I tried my own "Russian Stampede" in my last game with Russia after havent played them for a while. Yours no doubt seems faster, ill give it a try
posted 01-03-06 11:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 107  
Sorry, haven't had time to read what you wrote, but I'd just like to say that I really do love massing cavalry as Russia .

The problem is that I'm just too slow. I look forward to your strategy . It might just bring me back to Russia, but I love Dutch too much! :P


GRUNT'S UBER COMICS OF DOOM! READ!
http://rol.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=4&tn=91&st=recent&f=4,91,0,10]z00t[/url]
RoL Online Nick:
ESO name:[/b][url=http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/EntityStats.aspx?loc=en-US&EntityName=z00t&md=ZS_Supremacy]z00t
posted 01-03-06 11:22 AM EDT (US)     3 / 107  
Strategy's work very well... Really great..
posted 01-03-06 12:33 PM EDT (US)     4 / 107  
Really like the strategy on all cav in team games. Seems really effective and really never thought of it as that.

With the high cost of Cavalry Archers though, I think dragoons are much better. With your statement "Cav archers are just simply the best anticav unit in the game IMO, they pwn cav like nothing else and only lose to doppels, dragoons, and skirmishers. Great unit"

I decided to take a close look at the dragoon stats and Cav Archer stats...

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/php/units/units.php?n=Dragoon
http://aoe3.heavengames.com/php/units/units.php?n=CavalryArcher

Dragoons = 66 damage per hit
Cav Archers = 49.5 damage per hit

Cav archers have slightly more HP (265 vs. 200), but move slower.

They also have a slower attack reaction time. (Pulling back bow etc.), but faster attack rate (1.5 vs. 3.0).

Cav archers also have a rediculous high price on gold at 115.

That is 115 + 45f vs. 90f + 90g.

Take your pick. I like dragoons, faster, quicker response on attack and do more damage on first hit.

PS: The HG unit list is really messed up. ^^ http://aoe3.heavengames.com/php/units/ Some one should get on it.


The Legion Clan is the oldest international clan in the gaming community with a founding date of 1999. For years have we held on to our traditions, tournaments, and even play-styles. Basically what we always look for is bright minds, superior skills, and interesting personalities. We only invite people to be a part of our family that we can achieve something with. Now don’t tell me The Legion Clan doesn’t know what’s important. Join a clan with history, one you can trust, join L Clan.

[This message has been edited by Realn (edited 01-03-2006 @ 12:37 PM).]

posted 01-03-06 12:41 PM EDT (US)     5 / 107  
lol funny names for the strats, but the are substantially what a russian player usually do.I find that a ff oprich raid is more effective if supported by (vet)musketeers than with cav archers (obviously, if your opponent goes skirms you make cossacks).

I also think everyone knows that it's much more effective to rush with musketeers than with strelets. :P


Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan

[This message has been edited by rel4xed (edited 01-03-2006 @ 12:42 PM).]

posted 01-03-06 01:07 PM EDT (US)     6 / 107  

Quote:

I also think everyone knows that it's much more effective to rush with musketeers than with strelets

you'd be extremely surprised at how many players (good or bad) don't use muskets over strelets to rush with

Cav archers do 99 damage to cav in the time a dragoon does 66 damage accordng to that chart now if that is accurate then my point is proven if it isn't then it's still debatable

TGE


TGE's RTS Blog, news, thoughts, and advice on RTS gaming

Able Company (my job)

"I've kicked more ass on accident than most people have on purpose"

[This message has been edited by TheGoodEvil (edited 01-03-2006 @ 01:11 PM).]

posted 01-03-06 01:20 PM EDT (US)     7 / 107  
There is some really useful info in here, thanks TGE

I have been playing with Russians a bit not doing too well, I will put some of these techniques into practice and give it another go.

posted 01-03-06 02:16 PM EDT (US)     8 / 107  
russians sucks
period
:P
Im a quality person not a quantity, so i hate strelets.
posted 01-03-06 02:58 PM EDT (US)     9 / 107  
Very nice, I'll have to try some of these out, as I am starting a Russian HC.

How bout a strat for surviving an Otto rush?


I am not senDing sublimInal mEssages to NOOBS

"[A] Russian is raiding you. Let's say [you] go to age two in four minutes. He's already raiding you. Your outpost wagons are smoked. You got nothin'." - Merkinball

posted 01-03-06 03:04 PM EDT (US)     10 / 107  
as long as there are no abus on the field Russia can handle Otto pretty easily with strelets killing jans.

but once abus hits it's a mad dash for cossacks... hard stuff but It can be done, I beat El_Capitan's Otto with Russia so it shouldn't be too difficult for others to beat Ottos with Russia... cept fer abus :s icky.

TGE


TGE's RTS Blog, news, thoughts, and advice on RTS gaming

Able Company (my job)

"I've kicked more ass on accident than most people have on purpose"

posted 01-03-06 03:05 PM EDT (US)     11 / 107  
I, personally, like strelets. I think they beat an equal resource cost group of skirmishers. They are micro like skirmishers against heavy infantry.

They get mowed down by cavalry and falconets, but everything has a weakness. I really like building three blockhouses to protect my fragile early economy and then as soon as I boom, I can spew strelets toward the enemy. As soon as I have the extra resources, I like to mix in grenadiers as they are hard to micro against with soo many strelets flooding the enemy base.

The problem with the russians, as I see it, is that they have a VERY narrow window of opportunity to win going from the middle of colonial age until the middle of fortress. If the opponent makes it to late fortress alive and has the resources to go to T4, you're probably going to lose. Their early economy is too slow to rush very early in T2.. which makes them a bit weak against the early rush.

I think the secret is placement of blockhouses, get 3-4 up as quickly as possible. If you can tell when your opponent clicks to fortress, that is the time to hit them, in my opinion.

I don't see how russians have a chance against the Spanish, however. The only way I've been able to beat an ottoman rush is to run and hide to resource, and hitting him with opris as soon as I make age3 to decimate his already weak eco.. frequently I have to rebuild my TC to make this happen.. but otto economy is so weak from the initial rush that you can still outpace them even though you lose the TC if you rebuild quickly and plan for it.

I haven't used cav archers much, I'll have to visit that. I think the strongest thing the russians have is the synergy of a booming population (in mid/late T2) combined with the natural strength of having protection from the blockhouses turn into rapid troop production in mid-late T2. Most other civs have to buy outposts and then stables/barracks. In effect, the russians can turtle a bit without a significant cost that becomes dead resources when yhou take the battle to their base.

posted 01-03-06 03:05 PM EDT (US)     12 / 107  
I 'm straying towards playing Russia (my first civ) again now.

I love Dutch so much, though.

posted 01-03-06 05:00 PM EDT (US)     13 / 107  
I really need to try for a FF. That's probably why I seem to be losing often with Russia, my Fortress time is too slow. Perhaps I should invest in some resource cards...

I do muchos like the Russian Stampede idea, will need to level up 3 times to get the cards I need, but I should be able to pull it off.

Against Spaniards spamming Rods, what do you recomend? Add Streltsi to your army?


"I found no one ripe for many of my thoughts; the case of 'Zarathustra' proves that one can speak with the
utmost clearness, and yet not be heard by any one." - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave."
Oprichniks are the best units in AoE3. Why? It's elementary, they're Horse-riding Russian Pirates, nothing beats Horse-riding Russian Pirates.
posted 01-03-06 05:48 PM EDT (US)     14 / 107  

Quoted from GRUNT:

It might just bring me back to Russia, but I love Dutch too much! :P

Quoted from orgasmofthemind:

I 'm straying towards playing Russia (my first civ) again now.

I love Dutch so much, though.

That's weird. I started out playing Russians as well and then switched over to Dutch.

posted 01-03-06 05:50 PM EDT (US)     15 / 107  
Agarwaen, same here. I now play both.

"I found no one ripe for many of my thoughts; the case of 'Zarathustra' proves that one can speak with the
utmost clearness, and yet not be heard by any one." - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave."
Oprichniks are the best units in AoE3. Why? It's elementary, they're Horse-riding Russian Pirates, nothing beats Horse-riding Russian Pirates.
posted 01-03-06 06:52 PM EDT (US)     16 / 107  
I have one question for TGE:Is it better to ship in 700 wood and build 2 more blockhouses than ship in the fast infantry training card?You should get more soldiers and XP from that...
posted 01-03-06 06:56 PM EDT (US)     17 / 107  
I am kinda up and down about 700 wood, I'd rather have the faster training myself so I could get troops out in a pinch when I need them instead of having 2 batches at 25% longer time, but to each his own

I am not a big one on resource cards, I think resource crates kinda spoil the game a bit

TGE


TGE's RTS Blog, news, thoughts, and advice on RTS gaming

Able Company (my job)

"I've kicked more ass on accident than most people have on purpose"

posted 01-03-06 07:05 PM EDT (US)     18 / 107  
cool strats man i usually rush in colonial so i may try these out for a change
posted 01-03-06 07:06 PM EDT (US)     19 / 107  
For the 2v2 strat, one guy can send dueling school and the other can send wood.

Or I guess the other can send fencing school and get even faster training...


I am herpes.

Pyro Icon
11337
posted 01-03-06 07:21 PM EDT (US)     20 / 107  
Strelets aare beter than musketeers if only for the sh!t yourself factor.

It's so fun playing russians, getting 3-4 falconets against a strelet horde of 70-80 to just make a little 6 mushroom cloud. ^^ They fly everywhere XD


An Envoy and a Skirmisher walk into a bar...
Skirm: Nice hat.
Envoy: Comes with the job.
Skirm: I want it.
Envoy: You're not getting it * http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,26888,0,10
.:: One day ppl will realise the Dutch havent been nerfed coz TGE is bribing ES with coin from his 8 banks::.
posted 01-03-06 07:45 PM EDT (US)     21 / 107  
Sorry!

[This message has been edited by flying_red_hippo (edited 01-04-2006 @ 03:16 AM).]

posted 01-03-06 08:11 PM EDT (US)     22 / 107  
russians don't get pikes, russian pwns port easily with the shock assault, brits gets teh pwnz by teh stampede, I don't make strelets unless I am against heavy goons.

I have 3 more strats to post but need to get the best builds for them.

TGE


TGE's RTS Blog, news, thoughts, and advice on RTS gaming

Able Company (my job)

"I've kicked more ass on accident than most people have on purpose"

posted 01-03-06 08:18 PM EDT (US)     23 / 107  
TGE I love you.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin
posted 01-03-06 09:47 PM EDT (US)     24 / 107  
Interesting strats, but at least for the 1v1 assault, my question is, what makes Russians better at doing this than other civs? It's always seemed to me that Russia has a weak economy and not particularly outstanding millitary. What is the Russian advantage that makes them worth playing this way?

Programmer on 0 A.D., author of Norse Wars, co-author of Fort Wars.
posted 01-03-06 10:08 PM EDT (US)     25 / 107  
Great strats TGE.

I use russia and ive been using a grenade rush mostly. Check out BLue_Gaiden's grenade rush guide on www.gamereplays.org(in the forums). Its very effective, very vulnerable yes and it is pretty much all or nothing but if done well it is awesome.

I will have to try your musket rush. For your second shipment you suggest 300 food as your ageing. While you only have 2 vills on wood once u click colonial there is no way you get a forward blockhouse up before you hit colonial so maybe it would be better for you to wait and send the 600 food once you hit colonial. Not sure, im just brainstorming^.

BTW if you ever get Carolina as a russian thank god cause u can rush so easily its awesome lol :P

Great 2v2 and team strat aswell.


@ Matei. A russian can rush better then any other civ (other then otto) because of a few things:

1) Excellent early milliatry shipments
2) Grenadiers in colonial (for grenade rushes ofcourse)
3) Blockhouse adds some defense to a forward rax
4) Cheaper units
5) Block training mixed with cheaper units allows for ALOT of units ^^

[This message has been edited by TheZappa (edited 01-03-2006 @ 10:14 PM).]

« Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 5  Next Page »
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » The Russian Winter: Multiple Russian Strategies
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames