you're timing is impeccable, jaafit . Must try this today

i love scaring away villies.

hussars, xbow, pike: BLARGHAAAHHH!!

VILLIES: AAAAAHHH!!!!! TC! TC! AAHHH!

^ What was That?

Oh Yeah, Good strat. I haven't tried it out yet so I don't know how effective it will be, but it sounds like it will work.

[This message has been edited by F1RE_FLY (edited 01-16-2006 @ 04:33 PM).]

by the sound of this, brit should be able to do this as well.

aging up wood for vils, age 2 range 22 att 34 longbows and husser shipments.

(at work can't watch recording)

The 13th Villager triggers the first shipment in a traditional build, at aprox 2:00. I'd be curious as to what time your first shipment is available. My guess is 2:30-3:00.

So you collect and my guess drop the bank at 3:30, with it finishing at 4:00, in or about to be in Colonial, with another shipment queing after the bank finishes.

Sounds like it has promise. I wonder if it might be better to take 700 gold instead of the horses. Your probably short on it, and your short on Vils and Skirms. Personally I'd rather raid with 10 Skirms / 8 Pikes than 5 Skirms/3Horse. That way I'd also get the extra 100xp or so from producing Skirms and Vils.

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Taunt 19. Comparing longbows to skirms should be illegal and punished accordinly.

Diceclock,

I'm glad you read this cause I know you are very frustrated with the Dutch and their troubles with FF.

You CAN send 700 gold instead of hussars. I've tried that and you definitely end up with more skirms, but I prefer to have the hussars because they get there faster and are nice to have around when you want to attack vils on the opposite side of their TC. Hussars are essential vs French, who take about 30 skirm hits, but only 4 hussar hacks IIRC. But if you're not a hussar person, then get the 700 gold for sure.

The 1st shipment is available at around 2:25, as you predicted. That's also about the same time you hit the button to age. The bank is ideally done right before you hit colonial, sometimes a few seconds later, and your 2nd shipment (700 gold/hussars) is sent when it is finished.

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Good point, and smart move for sending 300 wood first,almost the same as on of the variations of the strategy I was developing for the past few weeks...the difference is I will build more villagers(the reason is simple:to age before 4:00 you only have to kick the age button before 2:30).Too few villagers(even if you have a bank) will slow you down after the first few bollets are out:bank so early means you are using 350food and 50 wood buying an extra villager,though you are compensated by earlier shipments.

Dice:4 villager(9 to 13) means 40 exp,will be 20 seconds later than normal.

[This message has been edited by Plebus (edited 01-16-2006 @ 05:38 PM).]

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brits. if they had there logbowmen with a bonus against something like vils then it could work. pop wise and 300 wood early means 2vils automaticly with pop.

[This message has been edited by gunner1 (edited 01-16-2006 @ 05:44 PM).]

"Taunt 19. Comparing longbows to skirms should be illegal and punished accordinly. "

i am sorry but i have no idea what you saying...

Basically hes saying

Longbows are to skirmishers,as donkeys are to socks.

"donkeys are to socks."

what !?

i still not quite sure what he is saying....

does he think longbow is weak compared to skirms?

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You could send 3 vils instead and create a 4th, which would use 300 fewer resources, but that gives you 130 less XP, forces you to build a house before getting hussars+barracks, AND you end up eating through that 1st gold mine early, something I never like to do.

No,not that thing,I said sending 300 wood is smart,you saved a house and 65 seconds earlier 2nd shipment,that's right.The point is,If you build 2 or 3 more villagers,that will not slow down your age time as you'll have more villager collecting food from 1:00 to 2:30,though you start food with fewer villagers...try it.

[This message has been edited by Plebus (edited 01-16-2006 @ 06:16 PM).]

The main problem with that is you sometimes only start with 100 wood. So if you make more than 10 vils, you have to make a house in discovery and when the wood shipment comes, you only have 300 to make a bank. I suppose if you had 200 wood to start, you could get 11/12 vils + bank with the same age II time. I'll try it.

Good strat, Diceclock made a good post. I can't d/l the record though.. is it just me or..?

Off to try it though, will post the results in a few minutes. This one seems easier than my FF-to-counter-an-FF strat.. although, being in colonial before the 4th minute with a bank is.. well, interesting. BRB!

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Yes,you might need 50 more wood,but that is not a problem:all you have to do is assign 2 -3 villagers chopping that 50 wood for you(you already have built 2 or 3 more,so that would not affect your food/gold),when you have 40+ wood and 250 or so food,switch another 2 villager collecting the shipment,you'll have the bank finished before colonial.

Besides,you can use your explorer to help you,most maps have wood treasures,you only need more than 50...you should know the map well and take note what kind of guardians will give you wood(some of them are random but some always the same).If your explorer can't help you before 2:30,then use the above mentioned build.

[This message has been edited by Plebus (edited 01-16-2006 @ 06:48 PM).]

Aged at 3:50, game ended at 8:40.. the guy actually sent his villies to the mine my envoy was protecting.

Although.. I didn't manage to get my skirms in his town at 5:15.. Or maybe I did, didn't really check it, killed my first villy at 5:55 though (had to search a little while though).

@Y3AH:3:50 you can do it while sleep:it just like Otto,and you get 2 villager earlier,no reason aging later than an Otto.

Edit:you can think this is a slightly weaker version of Otto rush,Otto will have more resources when hitting colonial and their rax will up earlier.The only advantage dutch have is skirmishers are quicker and better at harassing.

Yes,just like I guess,9 vil is too tight for skirmishers quick...you can't build any villagers after colonial if you want skirmishers as soon as barrack is built(3 vils on gold will accumulate ~170 gold before colonial plus a bank no more than 200 if no gold treasures),at least no constant villager prodution before the 1st 2 sets of skirmishers queued,unless you chang the shipment from 3 hussars to 700 gold....Honestly with my BO(with 3 more villagers built in discovery)I can only have 5 skirmishers out around 4:40-4:50 and if I want 10 ASAP then 700 gold is a must.

[This message has been edited by Plebus (edited 01-16-2006 @ 08:04 PM).]

Can you please fix the recorded game? And this is an AWESOME strat. Ceres629 will be in to diss it momentarily. (Yes, that was saracsm, but he does diss every single strategy in the world because there is a 1% chance that it will fail)

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Thanks for posting your results. They sound about right. At 4:30 the envoy should be looking for vils so you know where to send your hussars. 5:15 is a good time to get the skirms out. Sounds like you did it pretty well!

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Correct, I usually don't make any vils until after i've played the 4 vil card. My eco sucks but his sucks worse

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I'd love to see a recorded game of that. If you can do it, (12 vils + 1 bank + 5 skirms in 5:00) your strat beats mine.

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I hit my max daily xfer, so I upgraded to get more bandwidth. Should work now. BTW I had no hunt in that game, so I didn't get the hussars in his base until 5:30.

[This message has been edited by jaafit (edited 01-16-2006 @ 08:01 PM).]

... rec works for me.

Good job ... but somewhat risky.

This strat does what we, as dutch, needed. It slows down an FF, and due to the constant skirms presure, your opponent isn't going to have his Merc's anytime soon.

However, it isn't nearly as strong as a turkish rush, so don't expect to kill off every opponent with this :>

Damn nice strat. It actually works. Though against Germans and Russians I would send 8 pikes instead of 3 Hussars, and try to have 10 skirmishers ASAP (even at the expense of making villagers) to raid from out of TC fire reach. Hussars just die too fast to TC fire IMO.

The big problem with the strat is recovering economically. 3rd shipment of 700 wood helps get another bank up ASAP, which translates to 8.8 villagers on gold (2 banks). 4-6 more villagers on gold and you're into "Moony raid" territory, with the equivalent of 12-14 villagers on gold.

By the way, can anyone figure out if it's possible to work in Advanced Trade Post in somehow? The shipments, even with banks' +140XP the shipments come kinda slowly.

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Ottoman can! not 4villies but 2!

Still, very good strat!, gotta try it!