i had someone do that on me he advanced 3mins but waited til 6mins to attck so really didn't do enough to kill me

Yeah the fast attacking/raiding with the cossacks can be a real pain sometimes...

Barring those few maps where you don't get a large group of hunts that are easilly herded onto your TC, early cossacks doesn't accomplish much. Your opponent's economy shall shoot past yours by miles.

you dont need them to hunt far.

at 3:40~4:00, the only defense most civ will have is TC, 5 cossacks will last at the least 90 seconds.

but if you target the atps so that you get trade wagon passes right after the tp is up
it isnt easy but then you should get the 5 cossacks very fast

I don't know how viable that is. With everyone hunting towards their TCs and TC fire absolutely slaughtering cossacks, you're not really going to put much of a dint in his economy unless he's playing sloppy. He'll just ring town bell, kill a cossack, you'll retreat, you'll come back, bell again, cossack dead again, etc. Won't give you enough time to come back from your horrible start.

TC fire kills 1 cossack in 3 hits,
you have 5 cossacks, or 9 if you send the 4 cossack as well.

as long as he has no other defense, your cossacks are going to last for a long time.

I tried this (check out the medal I have :-D) That was with russians.

Maybe I just havent done it enough, but this strategy sucked. I raided and raided, and stayed on the 5 people I did it to in one night.

And my weaker eco never really caught up. Sure I always got atleast one villager, and several "wtfs?!?" when I aged up at 2:44 or so, but I ended up getting beaten in the end, with not enough eco to back up my cossaks, and not enough economy to end up beating their's.

It was two weeks ago I remember, and lost to 4 of those five people.

And one of them was a port, who had 6 TCs by the time he was done with me. *bashes head against wall*

I thought it was an excellent gambit, and the 5 cossack card rocks, but im just not sure that two people of similar skill playing, that the russian guy will be able to make up for such a weak eco.

EDIT: I have also lost 4 more times tonight with this strat, and just slamed my mouse into desk until it broke apart.

This stupid strat broke my MX1000, so I think its stupid and this thread should be closed. Nobody needs to lose anymore games/points from trying this.

[This message has been edited by OLD_Enemy (edited 03-02-2006 @ 09:32 PM).]

it didnt perform as well as i thought too, so i made a few changes...

sorry about the mouse.. i have 2 mx300, they both pretty good at surviving bangs.

i keep tryiing to play as russians but im no good with them lol

made a few changes again... hope it will help..

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-04-2006 @ 00:46 AM).]

Well, you have way too many age 4 cards, cause honestly, you're never going to see age 4 with that strat. If you're only sending 5 cossacks you won't be doing much damage. The ATP diff is only 25 wood from before so nothing to really cry about. Be realistic and know that you won't approach 5 TPs in a game (can't get the closest one to opponents base, they'll pick up one more). All around, there are too many holes in this strategy to work against anyone who's not a complete noob. After your 5 cossacks, you've just given your opponent an even bigger jump on the weak early russian eco. You'll have to wait till at least your 2nd fortress shipment for mercs, if not later. Also, if the guy is lucky enough to get a starting gold crate and treasure to equal 150 gold, minutemen stop your cossacks easily.

I dont think you need the manchu considering highlanders counter cav..

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i dont see the logic of this statement. with any strat, other than a dedicated age2 rush, you have to have some age4 cards, becaue you may always end up in age4, having only 4 age4 card really isnt many at all, 9 age3 card + 3 upgrade cards in age2 is more than you can use in pre-age4 anyway.

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but what else are you going to send? the only other good age2 shipment is 4 cossack, if you feel it does suit you playing style by all means use it, but i personally think this strat isnt there to kill opp is age1 or age2, but is there to slow him down and at the same time power yourself into age3 with all the 700 res cards.

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25 is huge. 125 ATP means if you started with 200 wood, you keep 100 to build a house, you onhly had to chop 25 to build the first ATP, but 150 means you have to chop twice that, you cant afford to, in 1.04 you can then use the 500 to build 4 more, you can only build 2 ATPs with 400 now.

when I aimed for 5 ATPs in 1.04 the main reason was NA, 2~3 to trade router and 2~3 to native.

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if you just leave the cossacks standing in your base, that would be true.

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the problem is russian's crappy age3 unit shipments, others get 6 goon, russians get 4 cav archer (WTF?) others get 9 halbs and 11 muskts, russian get the same numbers but russian's halbs and muskts are so weak that they dont worth it (WTF?). french get 4 cuirs, german gets 3 free uhlans yet russian gets 6 cossack (WTF?) , so you can see, if you want to keep up with good offense and keep making falcs, you need something to strong to protect them, nothing esle russian has can cut it.

This strat may be viable with grens; use 5 cossack to stall for time while you send 700 wood for foundry then 700 gold then if you really need to 700 Food preferably in that order... (putting several villies to build the foundry may actually prove useful in this situation)

Cossacks keep enemy villies inside the TC so he can't do anything, by the time he has military you'll have grens. Use cossacks to kill enemy cavalry while your grens tear apart any infantry he has and finally get rid of that TC. You really only need 5-7 grens to be able to do this, 10 will be the max you want though or your eco will die even more than before.

It seems very very unlikely that this will work but it seems interesting to try...

What I meant to say is that your opponent will have already killed you by age 4, so you won't be able to use those cards. If I see a guy age up unreal fast, I'm going to know he's sending someting at me and since he's russian it's going to be either some strelets or 5 cossacks since you won't have any resources to build an army. Right then any smart player would make sure all this huntables have been herded towards his TC, it's not hard to ring and unring the town bell, and then watch your cossacks die. Instead of calling it twice the amount of chopping, just think of it as 25 wood and realize how fast you can get that.

Also, with this strategy, you're going to be stuck waiting for houses since you didn't build barely any villagers or go for the 400 wood politician. Assuming you send your 5 cossacks first and have 2 shipments saved up, you'll have to wait a fair bit of time before you have any resources to start up the economy again. You'll just have tons of food and no pop space.

Lastly, if you want us to take this strat seriously, post a replay or something, so we can see it in action.

I never age 4 as Russians...I don't use age 4 cards anymore in my main decks. They're pointless. Only one I use is factory is some exclusive decks, mainly water maps.

What Mouurns said was true...cossacks suck when you micro them near TCs. You say cossacks last 3 shots, but you forget that when you try running your cossacks out, the TC fires about 2 shots, and fires 1 while you run in. Most likely, with each run-in, you'll lose a cossack and get another wounded. Its suicide that early with no infantry backup.

From my experience, ulti doesn't give links to recs nor his stats. One word for such a person: noob.

[This message has been edited by LO12DS_Mist (edited 03-04-2006 @ 09:25 PM).]

Ive been doing this whenever I play hispanola lately, and it works pretty well. However without the bonus food this strat would IMO be total suicide, so the only other map I could see this working on is Carolina depending on starting crates. After the 5 cossacks I either ship 4 cossacks/13 strelets or ship the 700 food crates. If hes ringing the town bell whenever he sees you just circle his TC, and raid in occasionally to make him garrison. Make sure you keep villie production constant.

Edit: On hispanola Ive also tried making a single batch of villies and aging with 8 of them... it's slower but you're in a much better position for your econ to catch up in age 2. If you time it right you should age right when the batch of villies comes out, keep 7 on food, and send 1 to gather the extra crates and build a house. Then once you hit age 2 ~ 2:30, ship the cossacks and keep sending villies to food until you have enough to maintain villager production, then allocate villies to other resources.

[This message has been edited by ca_aok (edited 03-04-2006 @ 10:32 PM).]

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interesting... hard to do, cos you only have 5 vils. send 700 wood first, build 4 houses + 1 foundry, the xp should get another shipment, vils mine gold, get 700 food, make 5 nadiers with that, send 13 strelets next... dont know well it would work though.

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I never age 4 as Russians...I don't use age 4 cards anymore in my main decks. They're pointless.

only if i could add more stuff in my signature....

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personally i think in coralina and hispanola this strat is more risky.

mainly because most people go for faster colinial as well.

in these two mapps you age around 30~40 seconds faster than other maps, but your opp could be aging 2 minutes faster than other mapps, the cossacks would die fast if opp is in age2, thus the strat will lose its effectiveness.

personally i find that do 20 vil build age1 turtle with colonial militia, then 7:23~7:25 fotress work better in these maps.

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LO12DS_Mist , get out of this thread. you have shown nothing but idiocy and immaturity, you have done nothing but trolling and flaming in several of my threads/posts, this is stratagy forum, not match finding, i dont feel like to disclose my stats so what? if you dont think a strat will work then dont bother use it, I welcome all constructive critisism from people who KNOW what they are talking about, you stupid commments about mercant, shipment value, aging time calculations and never going into age4 etc have proven that you DONT KNOW what you talking about, so get out of my thread.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-05-2006 @ 04:52 PM).]

Regardless of what you think of what Mist says, you still haven't provided a replay or an ESO name to back up any of your strategies. If you're able to play 4 age 4 cards in a 1 vs 1 you're either playing a no rush game or just toying with noob opponents.

The reason you meet a lot of resistance with your strategies is that you're making Russia look bad by encouraging players to try these crazy, never work strategies. Russia doesn't need any help looking bad, so maybe try your strategies out once or twice before posting them.

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What does eso stats have anything to do with stratgy? i am not saying look this is an all killing strat use it in your tournament. all I am saying is if you want some varity if your sleave, you can try this out, i have tried my best through trial and error to make this approach as optimised as possible, i dont think it is as strong as FF in general, but if you opponent happens to do an FF, this may help slowing him down early enough and severe enough, 3 minute 5 cossack is much more threatening and powerful than 4 minute cossack, 4 minute cossack is much more threatening than 5 minute 5 cossack again. it is a game of time.

the only people that has hown resistance are: Earl Samsca, Moourns( yourself) and LO12DS_Mist, and yet non of you have tried it.

old_enemy is the only person that actually tried, and he only tried it in its early form that had some major flaws which were later found. I am very happy with his feedback even if they were negative.

saying something is useless just because you havent seen it in action or seen the stats is plain ignorant. while both of you has been saying how stupid 20 vil build is in other threads, and argue one would NEVER get into Age4 in 1v1 so 4 age4 card are TOO MANY, check out unjugen's stats, his does 20 vil build just about every time and he gets into age4 often, many of his game he wins with the 2 x 2 heavy cannon shipments, he is easily a better russian player than mist.

IAMGRUNT builds lots of xbows and rushes in age2, he has all the stats and win ratios there to prove everything, but how viable is his strats for a normal guy like you?

ultimitsu, im with you on this, because I have been trying this exact strategy.

And it drives me insane that it doesnt work well enough.

In theory, you and I both want to think this is good.

"Yes, we age up faster than anyone else can (because of extra food) and we can use that first shipment, because russians cant really take full advantage of it anyway in age 1."

So you think to send the 5 cossacks, and you can be in their base by 3:30 (last time I checked). You find him eating deer with a good number of villagers. Against a player that has the same smarts as us, (meaning equally skilled) you will find he has shot food towards his TC, so you find 4-7 or so villagers eating deer not too far from the TC. The rest will be on straggler trees near TC and on the gold mine, which is also near the TC.

You get maybe 2-3 villagers max before he is able to get his hunters to his TC, with 7+ villagers already in it. If you stand and fight, your cossacks die to TC fire. So you have to run to save those cossacks.

By now, he is already up for colonial anyway, (nearly reached it too) and you maybe reduced his villager population by 2-3 So maybe 14 vills - 3 = 11 villagers. (Im being very liberal with how effective the strat will work, you might only get one villager.)

(Btw, this is where my strat differed alittle bit) ->

So lets say you took the 2 villager population, and queued up 3 villagers while aging up. You will then have 11 villagers yourself. However he will have accrued more villager seconds, and he will also be with whatever his politican is, where as you have already used the age politican benefits.

I have those 2 villagers I have from the politician get on wood, because I will have the other 8 on food, barely maintaining a steady flow of vills. I use my next shipment as 700 wood, but to 1. Build a blockhouse close to the enemy as possible. Second, to build an artillery foundry as well. (yes you heard me) and 3. another house to get you closer to your next shipment.

He should be colonial, if you were lucky you could get his outpost wagon (if he is british or spain for instance) and you might have 3 cossacks left. He now however probably has pikes, or some kind of army. So free villagers kills are rare at this point. However you now have a blockhouse up close to him, so he cant run your cossacks back to your town. I now have 14-17 villagers which should be on par with him, or maybe slightly ahead if you got some really good raiding runs. Keep in mind though that you should only have this many because you have spent 0 res on military units.

Now though you have a good flow of food, so keep up villager prodcution, and make army, because your cossacks need support, to keep on the pressure. If he is coming at you with pikes, the 10 strelets from your blockhouse is a good move, just to field some quick army, and so he doesnt just mass pikes, steam roll your cossacks, and your artillery foundry, and the rest of your foreward camp.

My next shipment is 700 gold, and I start putting more villagers on gold. I use this to make grenadiers, and if he is coming with cavs I try and make as many muskets as possible, but mainly strelets need to be the meat in this army.

I then try and take out houses, anything I can to keep his army down, yet I cant go after his TC anymore, because I will only really have 6-7 grenadiers, and maybe 15-20 of infantry. Hopefully you can keep pressuing him so much that you economy in the end is superior to his, and you eventually go fortress, ship 2 falcs, and start leveling him.

But of course, this never works. Somewhere along the way after putting up my blockhouse, I get overpowered, because im just spread to thin. Or he FF's (like the game I did yesterday) and in that one, he was spain, and he shipped 6 lancers, and the guy didnt even bother to micro (didnt have to) he took out my 6 grenadiers, 10 strelets, 2 cossacks, and 5 muskets. Although I was already in his town, taking out houses, so I was under fire from his TC, a tower, and several pikemen.

BTW: Here's the deck I use. As soon as I unlock 1k gold (next card) it will replace 1 falconet.

Double EDIT: Actually I just played one game with this, and suprisingly won. It was vs an Ottoman on sonora, so his guys were further out, so I got maybe 3 vills on first raid. I also stole to treasures, lol. So thats why this ended up a landslide IMO. He towered up, so I made stable + cossacks instead of grens to keep the pressure on him, while I tried to beat him on eco. He got manchu after he fortressed but I ran my cossacks around my blockhouse, while I got strelets, and I was soon up for Fortress as well. I then saved a shipment, got 2 falcs then one falc, while saving res for more falcs. Went in with 6 falcs after he put up a fort, and had about 20 strelets, and a few cossacks, and it was gg.

Bah! I thought I recorded it but I didnt. Oh well, here it is the link.

Game Stats

Looks like the guy is ranked higher than me cuetech wise, me being 1890 and him being 1960 before the game.

[This message has been edited by OLD_Enemy (edited 03-05-2006 @ 06:00 PM).]

A lot of strategies you can just plain know they won't work without trying them. I've never tried a Russian FI, but I know it won't work. I've never tried a strat where I delete 4 villagers right off the bat but I know it won't work.

The reason there are only a few of us against it is that they're aren't many Russian players here who post often, and even less off the them who would bother to post just to agree with what we say about this strategy.

Dropping IAMGRUNTs and Unjugons name doesn't help your case either. I haven't seen any replays that Unjugon does a 20 vil colonial (really sounds unbelievable if he's playing anyone decent) and there's no way to tell if its his portugal HC (100% wins in 100+ games) where he gets to Age 4 more often. I'd be more inclined to believe he gets to age 4 with Portugal more often than with Russia.

You can flame me and call me a noob or whatever but it doesn't change the fact that your 5 cossacks won't slow me down one bit (hunting towards TC, and a 2 minute colonial can only mean rush) and your economy will be so in the dump that I'll dwarf it in no time and will be able to turn the game into an XP match for me.

Age2 fight imo is always bad for russian, simply because your early eco < his early eco, attacking itself is more costly than defending, there is no logical edge on yourseid to help you win.

my approach is cossack constant raiding, never too near his TC, dont aim to kill as many vils as possible because that means you will lose cossacks very quick, make him frustrated of not being able to send vils out, but not really losing any either.

i have came to believe that 3 cossack raiding is almost as good as 5, but spare the other 2 with your explorer hunting givs you much better return, hunts gives you so much more.

i would use that 700 wood on TP to get faster access to next shipments, 2 TP and 2 house, or 3 TP if you manage to get some wood treasure, ship 700 gold and possibly 700 food, age to age3 with 17 or 16 vils(if you picked 2 settler aging option).

once in age2, you get OK shipments like 2 falcs, 6 nadier, 17 strelets from aging ETC.

ultimitsu btw, message me on ESO, my nick is Enemy im on right now.