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Topic Subject: Russian Musket/Grenader Rush
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posted 03-23-06 08:22 AM EDT (US)   
Russian Grenader/Musket Rush

I. Introduction
II. How to execute
III. Tips and Tricks


Section I : Introduction

First off, let me give a little background about myself so you know that some random noob isn't writing this. My ESO2 name is Stophon4, I have almost 800 games played, I am 2.1k+ on the cuetech ladder and 35+ on the ES ladder. I have played russia recently, and found out that they are much better than I thought they were. I can compete at a 2k+ level with russia! And if I can do that I'm sure everyone else can compete near to their normal level and still have a great time playing a under-used civ! I hope that you enjoy reading this strategy and hopefully put it to good use.


Section II : How to execute

The goal of this strategy is to have their tc down before the opponent can get his first shipment out after he reaches fortress. In order to do this you need to have their tc down no later than 8:00, or 45 seconds after they reach fortress. However, there is another way. If you are confiedent of your scouting abilities, you can take down their houses first, and hopefully house them so that they cannot ship a shipment once they reach fortress. Doing this you probably won't have their tc down until around ~9 minutes, but you wont have to worry about that dreaded 1 shipment.

Anyway, heres a general BO for executing it:

1. Put all 5 vils on food crates, get a vil cued up ASAP, after you have it cued up put 1-2 vils on a wood crate and make 1 house. All other vils go on hunting
2. Continue to make vils, ship 300 wood as your first shipment.
3. Try to click up no later than 3:00 if possible. Once you click up gather you wood crates with a few vils and then send 2 forward, you need to have a blockhouse up by the time you hit t2, so you may want to adjust the time you send your 2 vils fwd depending on the map.
4. During advance put 3 vils on gold and all the rest on food.
5. Once you reach the Colonial Age, shift a few vils to collect the wood crates, build 1 house and create a artillery foundry. Depending on the map and starting crates, ship X number of vils to wood, just make sure you dont get housed, remember, greanders cost 2 population!
6. Remmber that blockhouse, well you were spost to have been making muskets from it since the moment you reached t2,depending on your artillery foundry time, around 10-15 is prefferably, once you get 5 you need to hit him, once you get 10 go in and take a house, try not to engage minutemen though if possible.
7. Ship in 700 food as first shipment, do this so you can keep constant production of vils and so that you can have that food for greanders.
8. Next shipment can change, I normall like shipping in 600 food to keep making vils and grenaders.
9. Once you get 10 musk and 5 grenaders go atttack him, like I said, here you can either go for houses or the tc first, your choice. The clock should be around 6:45 usually.
10. Get another 3-5 grenaders and have them target the tc. From this point forward create muskets and villagers, dont create more grenaders unless you have less than 8. If you are facing german you may want to make more greanders instead of muskets, however if he gets his first shipment out you'll be wishing you had made muskets.
11. Around this time your opponent should hitting t3, if heis german have your greanders target the skirms and musks on his tc. (Since he should have 7 skrima ge up, if he has 4 dopples then have muskets on them and grenaders on tc). If he is spanish he should have 10 pikes, just have musks kill pikes and then back on tc.
12. At this time you either win or lose (normally), if his tc went down before his first shipment, then you usually win. If his tc didn't go down, then you usually lose. Even if you went for his houses, youll be finding out whether you got them all or not around now too. If he does get his first shipment, you may be able to beat it, but you'll be low on army and wont' be able to finish up on his tc usually (unless you get a german 9 skirm shipment), but normally spain 6 lancers and german 9 uhlans will beat ya (unless you have a ton of muskets, but even then lancers can prlly take em).

And thats the jist of it.

Section IV : Tips and Tricks
-Always have your explorer scouting for stray vils and houses, killing 5+ vils can insure that even if he gets his first shipment out, you will still have a chance.
-A variation is only creating 5 grenaders and then going straight muskets, its better at lasting through his first shipment, but much worse at getting down his tc faster.
-If you are super late getting up sometimes you can ship in 300 food and then go straight artillery foundry, its much more risky but can sometimes save a game.
-Always create vils, its just imperative to winning, especially with russias lack of vil shipments
-Don't give up right after your rush fails, if you manged to do enough damage you may still have a chance (kill enough vils). If it fails, you have two options, you can keep creating military and hit him and kill his false sense of security, someitmes after a failed rush, he may take his two remaining lancers or uhlans and go raid while he ships in 1k wood to get his boom going because of a bad economy. If you can get like 5 greanders and 10 muskets out soon enough you may still have a chance. Your other option is to just ship in 700 gold and go to fortress, it isn't great though, but if you hurt his economy you may still have a good chance
-On the contrary, you could just stop after you have made 15 musk and 5 grenaders and go to fortress, while your rush is mor elikely to fail you are more likely to be in the third age with a better eco fast.


Well anyway, thats the strat, and I hope you enjoy it.


Originally posted at Gamerreplays.org


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
Replies:
posted 03-23-06 10:29 AM EDT (US)     1 / 77  
Probably the best russian rush.
posted 03-23-06 10:36 AM EDT (US)     2 / 77  

Quote:

At this time you either win or lose (normally), if his tc went down before his first shipment, then you usually win. If his tc didn't go down, then you usually lose.


Hmm, guess it will be fun for those who like to play 10 minut games only


TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
posted 03-23-06 12:36 PM EDT (US)     3 / 77  
Great work Stophon, I guess it need a 1337 player to prove what I had thought all along.

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posted 03-23-06 12:45 PM EDT (US)     4 / 77  
Hmm, this seems like a carbon copy of the Janissary/Grenadier rush I've been quite successful with in 1.04. The only difference I see is that as Russia you get that Blockhouse before you hit Colonial, whereas playing Ottoman, I start building one just as I enter Colonial.

Perhaps I should try it again in 1.05 (been on a semi rush -> FF -> Industrial craze) ...


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 03-23-06 01:15 PM EDT (US)     5 / 77  
'compete near to their normal level'

That confirms what I experienced with the Russians. Pwn noobs, beat people less skilled than me, lose to people of my skill level (and higher), no matter how well I may play the russians.

I think that's the definition of UP.

posted 03-23-06 01:33 PM EDT (US)     6 / 77  
would it be a good idea to ship that 13 strelets, and instead of building blockhouse, build a foundry upon hitting age2 and get grenadiers ASAP, and use that strelets to kill vils/MM?

i am not sure how many muskts u need by the end of the day, russian can have total of 9 cossacks and 13 strelets shipped in age2, if all you need was <20 musksts to kill vils and MM, maybe rely on shipment would do the job? since strelets has better resistence to TC fire.

posted 03-23-06 02:08 PM EDT (US)     7 / 77  
If you're fighting Germany, those Strelets will do nothing to protect the Grenadiers from Uhlans (of which he can have as many as 9, 2 from Crossbows, 2 from 700 gold, 5 shipped in).

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 03-23-06 02:20 PM EDT (US)     8 / 77  
yeah aginast german you would definitely want muskts,

but against everyone else, strelets do a better job against rods, pikes, muskts, cossack do better against xbow and vils.

i dont rule of build a blockhouse at some stage and pump out muskts once strelets/cossack run out, i am just saying that rely on shipment for support and start build naiders asap could speed up the whole thing quite a bit.

posted 03-23-06 03:45 PM EDT (US)     9 / 77  

Quote:

yeah aginast german you would definitely want muskts,

but against everyone else, strelets do a better job against rods, pikes, muskts, cossack do better against xbow and vils.

i dont rule of build a blockhouse at some stage and pump out muskts once strelets/cossack run out, i am just saying that rely on shipment for support and start build naiders asap could speed up the whole thing quite a bit.

Any cav would still slaughter you. 3 hussars easily kills 13 strelets.

Strelets take longer to kill vils, buildings, and take less shots to die from TC fire. They may have better ranged armor, but their HP still sucks. 5 muskets kill vils faster than 10 strelets.

Also, that shipment could be better used for something else.

posted 03-23-06 03:54 PM EDT (US)     10 / 77  
Seems like a pretty effective russian rush. Do you have any recs of it in action?
posted 03-23-06 04:02 PM EDT (US)     11 / 77  
Can't they start building blockhouses before reaching age 2? I remember testing that once 1.05 came out. That way you can just start building units as soon as you hit age 2.
posted 03-23-06 04:05 PM EDT (US)     12 / 77  
How many vills do you make before aging? You just wrote, "Keep making vills."

EDIT: Never mind, I got it. You should probably write it in anyway, for clarity.


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[This message has been edited by ZAKtheGeek (edited 03-23-2006 @ 04:17 PM).]

posted 03-23-06 04:25 PM EDT (US)     13 / 77  
Make vils until you advance, when you advance depends on fighting situation.

With muskets you at least have a chance at killing lancer, hussar, and uhalns. With strleet and cossack its gg their, waht if a spanish player advances with 4 hussars? Or a german player just ships in 5 uhlans...


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 03-23-06 04:34 PM EDT (US)     14 / 77  
*the first part removed*

Quote:

Any cav would still slaughter you. 3 hussars easily kills 13 strelets.

not with 5 + 4cossack. FF dont normlly send 3 hussars unless he has to, hell, most FF-er dont even include that card.

even if he has that card and he sends it, he would only send it once he saw your strelets, and that is provided he has a shipment and house space available at that point, so the fastest he can get them is 40 seconds. since you have planned this ahead, u would likely to get cossacks out before his hussars come.


Quote:

Strelets take longer to kill vils,

true, but they still get the job done and you dont have muskts shipments

Quote:

buildings,

nadiers are so good at it you dont really need extra seige.

Quote:

and take less shots to die from TC fire. They may have better ranged armor, but their HP still sucks.

yes and no, it depends on TC fire, it is variable and it depends on if they send colonial militia.

strelets has 72 hp, can stand 105 dmg of shots, muskts only has 120 hp, hardly makes a difference.


Quote:

5 muskets kill vils faster than 10 strelets.

again, yes and no, russian muskts has 18 ranged dmg, 1 strelets has 8, so overall muskts do a bit more dmg, but strelets walk a bit faster and has longer range.


Quote:

Also, that shipment could be better used for something else.

this is arguable, you either send resources to make troopps, or you send troops straightaway, obviously send raw troops means u dont spend VS collecting crates, dont have to build BH early and get less "housed" problem, from a pure value for money point of view, 13 strelets and 4 cossacks all worth about 600 res, 5 cossack worth 750. so you are not losing anything.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-23-2006 @ 05:46 PM).]

posted 03-23-06 04:37 PM EDT (US)     15 / 77  

Quote:

With muskets you at least have a chance at killing lancer, hussar, and uhalns. With strleet and cossack its gg their, waht if a spanish player advances with 4 hussars? Or a german player just ships in 5 uhlans...

i dont mean you should never build muskts, i think you should drop a BH somewhere in age2 and start making muskts, thats for sure, but if you can start the rush with strelets and delay making BH when you have like 17 or 20 vils, that would make your life easier.

also 9 cossack definitely beat 4 hussars and 5 uhlans

posted 03-23-06 04:44 PM EDT (US)     16 / 77  
You plan on attacking with just 13 strelets? That's weak, don't you think? I doubt that could even kill a vill in one volley.

If you're going for a "light" start to a rush, using strelets, you still need a blockhouse so you can attack with 23 of them. So you can actually kill villies.


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posted 03-23-06 05:09 PM EDT (US)     17 / 77  
the plan is to start with 13 strelets, and have more units to come all the time.. such as cossack, nadier, and muskts once u build BH.

13 strelets doesnt kill vil in 1 shot, but thats ok, the whole point was to creat panic and slow down FF, right? the sooner you start raiding the longer it will take him to FF.

I dont mean to steal the thread, you guys should try what stophon wrote first, my strelet suggestion is merely a suggestion at this point,

posted 03-23-06 05:22 PM EDT (US)     18 / 77  
But, I mean, what kind of panic do 13 strelets cause? It's quite well-known how badly they suck... It's almost like sending in an upgraded explorer and his dog. Oh no, sound the alarms!

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posted 03-23-06 05:37 PM EDT (US)     19 / 77  
er.... what would you do if you see 13 strelets shooting at your vils zak? do u let them be and leave them alone?

as for upgraded explorer and the dog... explorer still does minimal damage to vils, like 1 or 2 or something, but the dog definitely kills vils, in fact i killed 2 vils with the dog in that game against the 1900+ spanish player yesterday

posted 03-23-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)     20 / 77  
Advance to t2 with 14 vils, you should be able to do it right around 3 min if you are good and go for food treasures and get a few sheep.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 03-23-06 05:56 PM EDT (US)     21 / 77  
quick question Stophon,
What do you do if your versing a Spanish player and you spot his forward outpost, do you drop back and take it out, or do you ignore it and push on towards his base? Also, a rec of this in action would be nice.
posted 03-23-06 07:56 PM EDT (US)     22 / 77  
i tested, it works. here is a screen at exactly 6:45.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3579/screen80nx.jpg

20 vils, 10 musks, 5 grens. qued vils and qued grens with a 5 cossack shipment about to be sent at 6:45. and this was my first crack at it.

good stuff stohpon.

i started advancing to col at 2:40 with 14 vils

ulti, i promise you muskets are a wiser option than strelets. the 13 strelet shipment is better used on the 600 and 700 food so you can keep gren and vil production. you'd have to be crazy to send grenadiers into battle without any sort of cav protection. uhlans/lancers/hussars will go through strelets and grens like a hot knife through butter.

remeber, germans will have 4 FREE uhlans at 6:45


Eso: scuzz

[This message has been edited by BloTo (edited 03-23-2006 @ 08:05 PM).]

posted 03-23-06 08:28 PM EDT (US)     23 / 77  
Well, you would never build Strelets at all in the strat (I tried doing it with Strelets/Grens, it didn't work). Also that 13 strelet card is a double-edged sword as it'll screw your pop-space up and make ya wait to pump out more villagers/army. I'd rather get 5 muskets and some grens with my 700 food than get the 13 strelets. The 13 strelets could be the 3rd card you send if your rush is going well, but I don't think you'd get 3 cards deep before the critical advance/first shipment time.

Q: What do you call a German Major playing as another civ?
A: A 2nd Lieutenant
posted 03-24-06 00:20 AM EDT (US)     24 / 77  
It sounds like a solid strat. However, I have some questions:

1) What if he's Ports. Can take down both TCs, and defeat 12 minutmen + 7 Cassadors?

2) If he's German, what if he ships 5 Uhlans and 8 Crossbows + 2 Uhlans. It looks like his army would beat yours.

posted 03-24-06 03:37 AM EDT (US)     25 / 77  

Quote:

i tested, it works. here is a screen at exactly 6:45.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3579/screen80nx.jpg

20 vils, 10 musks, 5 grens. qued vils and qued grens with a 5 cossack shipment about to be sent at 6:45. and this was my first crack at it.

You are stuck right there.

20 wood - nobody on wood and housed badly.

No more settlers and military for awhile.


TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
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