id beware attacking germans or dutch too.. if he is german and delivers 9 uhlan or something or sends 10 dutch ruyters will eliminate those falcs in time (while suffering losses too of course) leaving your 8 highlanders (most likely less) stranded in the middle of his base.

i mean 8 units trying to prevent 9 uhlans or 10 ruyters from killing falcs is a hard task...

Yes, a large shipment of Uhlans is a definite threat to your falconets. Highlanders in melee do incredible, almost unholy damage to cavalry, but you're likely to suffer some damage to your cannons if he is determined to kill them. I'm confident that the highlanders should not suffer losses from the Uhlans alone, and you should be able to keep at least one cannon alive with good (i.e. better than mine) micro. A real threat is the German 7-skirmisher politician combined with Uhlans.

I'm afraid that it's been some time since I've faced a Dutch player. My own experiences with ruyters when performing artillery killing is that they were universally worse than hussars at this task. However, it'd be interesting to see how 10 ruyters did facing down 2 falconets and fire from 8 highlanders. I'm confident the highlanders would be fine. The cannons -- not as certain. Do the Dutch tend to FF these days?

Also, don't forget that more shipments are on their way. Adding in 11 muskets or 5 hussars of your own goes a long way toward adding that extra layer of protection. In addition, your economy should be taking off at home. The more time you can buy, the better off you should be.

Ultimately, if German Uhlans present too much of a threat, a defensive BWKiC is always a good option.

I'll take a look at those recordings.

I have a Lvl 75 Brits HC gathering dust.

*EDIT*

OK, I checked out the rec vs the Frenchie on TX and the job on the Russian on Pampas. With the first one, I was a bit sceptic as the opponent was clearly not very good and ranked well below you, as I found out. The second one was more impressive as that opponent's rating was actually ~ to yours, for whatever it's worth.

Nice one, even if it doesn't kill off your opponent totally, it's sure to disrupt any plans he might have for doing nasty things to you, while you can boom away.

He'll prolly be thirsty for revenge if he survives, lol.

I think I might give this a try in a team game, but erh...don't tell anyone.

An afterthought:

You might expand the strat by sending a vil forward to build rax nearby your forward tower. That'd allow you to keep the pressure on and gain map control even if you don't kill him off totally with the BW and the falcs + other shipment units.

[This message has been edited by YidArmy1885 (edited 04-11-2006 @ 05:15 AM).]

Good work on the write-up. A defensive BWKiC with Highlanders and thin red line would be nasty to take down. Keep up the good work!

Thanks, heystopthat! I agree about Highlanders + Thin Red Line. They're not super mobile, but they are great at taking punishment.

Yid, you're quite right about the ratings. Hopefully even the ownage recs have some value. I've found it surprisingly hard to get recorded games. There's lots to like about AoE3, but the "sometimes I'll record, sometimes I won't" problem on ESO drives me nuts! I may have another rec or two on another machine... I'll do my best to find more if I can.

Interesting, it's great to see a new strat for a mostly bad civilization. I hope you've found something to make the Brits at least fun to play against FF.

I look forward to trying/tweaking it out.

This strategy is awesome, my clan is having a 2 vs 2 torney soon so I've taught my team mate my adapted version of it and were gonna use it in the torney. Thanks alot beatnik joe

I'm gonna have to experiment with chopping the wood for the Tradepost before hitting the age up to colonial. On some maps you start with 300 wood, which should allow to build a tradepost ASAP and then shop 100 more wood for a house. Or build the house (get the 7th villager) and then chop 100 for the Trade Post, whichever turns out more benefitial.

P.S.
OMG I managed to forget how much Rockets suck (been using Great Bombards too long). Holy mother of god they're worse than bleeding unaupgraded FALCONETS!

Please ES, fix them or give the British Heavy Cannons, 'cause these Rockets are a waste of pop space.

Thanks guys... I wish you great success in your coming matches! Destiny, best of luck in your tournament match! If you get a recording of the match, it'd be cool to see it.

Ender, I am afraid you are 100% correct about the rockets. They really do look bad when you stack them up against heavy cannons.

So I tried this in a 2v2 with a clan mate and it sort of worked.

Except i was a too slow getting the TP going. But combined with my teammate's pikes and cannons (He was Spanish) we had a pretty awesome force in one opponent's base not too long after Fortress.

Combined with some forward building of rax, I reckon it worked pretty well. We demolished one opponent's base and the other team was squeezed into a small, albeit heavily fortified, area for the rest of the game, which we then slowly pounded to bits.

Great fun.

I'll definitely continue playing around with this one.

PS: LOL, rockets! I fart in their general direction, pfff! They are the suckiest factory arty unit by a mile. don't bother with 'em. FU Redcoats are awesome, though.

[This message has been edited by YidArmy1885 (edited 04-11-2006 @ 02:33 PM).]

Is it me playing british too long I think rockets are awesome. and joe if you show me how to post recs I'll gladly post a rec of me and my teammate using your strat in the tournament

Hi Yid, congratulations on the win. It's good to hear some war stories... anything in particular problematic with producing the trade post? Maps with low amounts of starting wood can be especially uncomfortable for the poor Brits.

Destiny, I do know you could post recorded games here here, though I have not tried it. I've used www.savefile.com so far.

Also, in the other thread you were asking about whether an 8:00 time was acceptable. If this is for reaching fortress, it's reasonable, could maybe use a little tightening, but not bad at all. If you have highlanders and falcs out at 8:00, then you are doing great. Using the 500 food politician can also speed you up, though this means you must play defensively.

Ultimately your performance will be helped or hindered by the map. On Carolina, you should be able to unleash your highlanders and falcs not long after 7:30 (and fortress comfortably below 7.) Truly an amazing map for this strat. For non-supercharged maps, generally try to fortress a little before 8 if possible, and the cannons will be out at 8:30ish. The highlanders will be out very soon after aging up. That's a powerful property of that church tech.

Just realize that your performance will vary map-to-map, depending especially on your starting wood.

I play soley on my favourite map which is great lakes. and I just got owned by a german probably the onyl civ this cant take down because they're fortress time is fast pls their military is better french = counter pwned spanish = counter pwned german = too powerful so unfair.

I love the name of this strat and I am feeling the urge to switch back to brits!! 2 falcs and 8 black watch at 8:00 is a formidable force. I think it would be great if you focus your econ on coin after aging up and go all out for more landers. Can the brits research roger's rangers in fortress age??? If so, that would be the best option.

Just think... 19 landers + 2 falconets + 26 skirmishers by 9:15 ish. Wow. Too bad I'm pretty sure roger's rangers are age 4+ only. Oh well.

No, you can't get Roger's Rangers in Fortress. But you probably shouldn't even if you could. That's 2000 gold down the drain. You should be collecting gold for 11 more Highlanders, 15 more Jaegers and then another 12 Jaegers. If you play the cheaper mercs card, then you need to collect 2700 gold and have three shipments available. 11 Highlanders and 27 Jaegers, even at +700 gold, are way better than 26 Guard Skirmishers.

Indeed, I believe British should try to take out their opponent in Fortress, not even bothering with Industrial.

And speaking of which, British have pretty much THE best Mercenaries available in Fortress. It's just that they can't take advantage of them due to the horrible slow start and utterly crippling 150 wood manour cost.

I found it to work out well for me if you follow up the 2 falc shipment with a shipment of 1000 gold. Make sure you have 500 gold right before collecting it, then switch vills to whatever you want. After collecting the gold, you'll have 1.5k, which means mercantilism. This will buy you 3 shipments. I like to send a fort, a mili shipment, and maybe resources or 8 vills. Brings your econ up to speed very quickly.

Quote:

just me being picky....

admittedly 900 for 15 jaeger is great, but your calculation is a bit wrong.

2700 gold for 11 Highlanders and 27 Jaegers is 4 shipments + 2700.

if R'R was available in age3. you could get UC then R'R + BW for 1000 food + 2000 gold, which is about 2700 gold worth.

you have 3 spare shipments on top of that, you can get fort + 11 longbow + 2 falcs.

that is 8 highlanders + 26 guard skirms + 2 falcs + 11 longbow + fort.

i dont think that is bad at all compared 27 jaeger 11 highlanders.

26 R'R for 2000 gold in fortress would definitely be OP

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-11-2006 @ 04:50 PM).]

Could u post a DEFENSIVE BWKiC rec game on here? And could one of u clear up the bit with posting rec games i dont know either

Quote:

Lol, not really. I just sorta left it too late. Next time i'll get it right.

If you think this is gonna do too good against spanish then ur overestimating this strat, But overall good, well writen up, will sure to see if I can put some of this into my own brit ff

Nice guide
I haven't seen many skilled British players lately. Hopefully this will help.

Thanks for the kind words and all feedback...

Regarding Spain, I'd have to strongly agree and reiterate that Spain is always going to be a fierce opponent. Anyone that underestimates the power of a Spanish FF does so at their own peril. I recommend a defensive BWKiC when playing against Spanish.

Unfortunately, I don't currently have a recording of defensive BWKiC in action. I'm experiencing some network difficulties that I've lamented about on agecommunity. These currently have me sidelined from multi-player. Would a single-player demonstration of the defensive build order be of any value? I'd be happy to record one if it helps.

I also like the suggestions about bringing out more mercs as quickly as possible. I'd definitely love to hear what people find that might work better than my recommendations. For me, adding some culverins is a solid choice in defensive BWKiC. While I wish it were possible, I don't currently think that 19 highlanders + 2 falcs can be done by 9:15 (due to both housing and gold gathering constraints.) But please -- prove me wrong and become my hero! I would love to be wrong about this.

Destiny, did you hit the German at home or play it defensive? If he's level 50+ and you feel that his game is fast, a defensive BWKiC may not be a bad play (due to the power of the Germans' 7 skirmisher politician.)

[This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 04-11-2006 @ 07:38 PM).]

8 highlanders + 2 falconets are great armies for Fortress age and especially before 9 minutes.

But as playing Biriths against Spanish, I think semi FF works better, which means having longbows, muskeeters, culverines and pikemen to defend your base or attack.

Instead of getting 8 highlanders, I spend 1500 gold to get 2000 xps and ship 11 longbows, 11 muskeeters and 2 falconets. I don't really like the idea of using merces in Fortress as British since it can really hurt your economy since all vills should be put on gold mines to get merces as soon as possible.

By keep producing normal armies from a rax, I can have about more than 20 longbows + 11 muskeeters + 10 pikemen + 2 culverines + 2 falconets at around 11 minutes. This can really defend Spanish fortress rush.

one common mistake newbie British players make is that they don't distribute right amount of vills on each resources and tend to have excess amount of wood while running out of gold and food. And by doing FF and getting merces, they tend to forget to build a rax and some other military buildings. Wihtout constant supply of armies, infantry British merces can be owned by lancers or uhlans as soon as highlanders are all killed. Also cannons are big threat when you don't have a culverin.

Since Birith can be considered a defensive civic, having decent economy while making normal armies is better than trying to FF and getting merces in Fortress.

Ps. I used this strategy against Germans and it did not really work out well. My german opponent did FF and get 2 merces along with Uhlans and Skirms. He came to my base around 11 minutes and my longbows got killed by Hekapells. In this game, I later found out that I did not manage my food supply well and I did little outboom, having little too many vills. I think by shipping a fort as my first Fortress shipment, it might be possible to defend German's merce rush.

And imo, Germans have too many free Uhlans.

[This message has been edited by dpark2 (edited 04-11-2006 @ 09:17 PM).]

seems powerful, i would go defensive however, and drop the fort, in a choke point securing mines, then boom, spanish FF can't beat ya unless he attacks right? after setting up this lander/2falc/fort maybe 8 ville? i don't play brits at all but 8 villes is instant econ in the spot you need it most at no cost.

thoughts?

hmmm... hypothetical question- To start off, I can't watch the recs right now, but what would you do about a Russian opri raid in the defensive version? With Thin Red Line your highlanders are too slow to counter them, right? And I think the falcos would get owned. Or the opris could just stay out of range and raid around. Either way, how would you counter this?