How is this different from the British BWK?

In Brits BWKiC, you're featured getting Black Watch and FALCS at the exact same time, here, you delay the falcs a bit but instead get a great many highlanders, also, the foward tower isn't used.

In a sense it's similar to defensive BWKiC, but it's more highlander-based. Still, let's try to stay away from that, I'd say. Great strat for busting FFs though.

It is in no way the BWKiC. I think nowadays anthing that uses the Black Watch is considered BWKiC and it is definitely not. You not only delay the falcs, but you delay your colonial time too. There is no tp in discovery (or at all for that matter) and you age with 25-30 vills instead of 17. So really they are only similar in ONE way: the black watch.

I really dont think this is bwkic, it is nice and pushing the brit advantage of manor boom into a faster aggressive strats, nice one, I have some variation of this, and it is fun to do..... but gimme something to stop the otto

back to topic, this is a great strat, nice one again !

A mix between the BBWKIC and my Forty vil brit colonial?

I think Stophon has the picture . Yeah, its a hybrid strat that i tweaked to be a FF killing machine.

I also tend to put alot of anti-rush cards in (colonial militia, improved buildings) to scare opponents into thinking twice about attacking early. Plus, you can always just stick it out in coloial and call militia and make some lbows if you get hit at like 6 mins.

EDIT: I added in a time breakdown in the original post for those who are interested. Im hoping this will change the face of british FF strats for good!

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 06-14-2006 @ 09:24 PM).]

Oooh, sounds fun and awesome!
Will try!

YAY FOR SEPHIROTH!!!! a brit player's real friend.

This is exactly the BWKiC except for the fact that it features another method of getting their economically, in fact later and less effective. Maybe it sets you up better to mass falconets or whatever, but if you lose those highlanders (can you say, skirmishers or other falconets?) then what do you have left? Well you have merely no food because your trying to continue villager production at your TC, and all that gold and wood was being spent on falconets. Do you know what falconets are when they have no protection? dead, and there goes your strategy. You can't expect your BW to defend those 3-5 falconets perfectly.

So this spin off of the BWKiC will not work against more experienced players, not to mention, it's hardly a new strategy.

Just because a strat uses the Black Watch means it is a BWKiC wannabe? In that case you're either a. ignorant or b. upset because this strat poses a threat to the power of the BWKiC that you love so much. This strategy is in NO way similar to the BWKiC EXCEPT the black watch. What dont you understand about this? Sheesh...cant i get any credit for making up a completely original strat?

Also, 17 highlanders are extremely durable and will only die to mass skirms/arty. 2 falcs from a shipment die instantly (one shot kill anyone?) and skirms arent much of an issue either because of your falcs. In the end, it comes down to micro. 17 highlanders is MORE than enough to protect 5+ falcs. Also, you say this strat is slower?
You have virtually the SAME fort time with 8 more vills and a lot more resources. The only thing i can see the BWKiC doin better against than this strat is an otto rush, which you shouldnt BWKiC (or use brits for that matter) against anyways.

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Things it has in common:
Black Watch
FF

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Says you, I find it far more effective and much better.

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Yeah except for those 30 vills he has he has a pathetic economy -.-

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2k players>you

the only thing this has in common with the bwkic is the black watch tech. that single thing.

btrn, i saw this strat earlier today in action (live, not rec) and it is so unlike the bwkic you'd hardly know the similarites.

hey, this is just like BWKiC strat....

HA, just kidding.

I hate posting on this site, so many damn haters. I think it could be a nice strat to go against those german FF warwagon/merc/freeuhlan/don't have to make a barracks or stable lamers.

When someone actually posts a strategy they get flamed *sigh* BWKIC is actually incredibly easy to stop if you know what is coming. Simply get a couple of culverins and a skirms/casa shipment combined with age up skirms/casa. The Brit is left with no falconets and 7 highlanders against some culverins and about 14 skirms/casa. Not to mention the other player now has another shipment due to not spending one on advanced church. That can be used on 2 falcs of my own

I just tried this strat against a spanish person, and I lost The main reason is that I didn't know if he was going to FF or rush - his deck was basically 1 age 1 card, 9 age 2 cards, 9 age 3 cards and 3 mortars as his age 4 shipment. His age 2 deck was basically 600 and 700 shipments and 8 (I think) pikemen. My deck was aimed at deterring a rush with the improved buildings, colonial militia, 2 towers and that extra tower hp and build limit card.

However, I saw he had made a forward barracks and there were xbows outside it (at this point I thought it might have been a fake, as xbows suck against lbows which he must have known I would make, and he had 5 standing outside the base - he must have moved 10 or 15 out of sight. Damn he was cunning), so I made about 10 lbows and shipped 6, and at about 6 minutes he walked into my base with 20 or so xbows and tried to take out my villies. My lbows killed them and he may have got 1 villager, but I had 30 vils by this point. However, he kept up his rush, sending batches of 20 xbows pretty regularly and with each batch added in a few pikes. We were both fighting it out in colonial for a while, with me making lbows and him spamming pikes and xbows, when I shipped colonial militia and pushed him back.

He must have run out of resource shipments by now because he didn't do anything and I noticed his score was staying level now rather than jumping up, so I guessed he was going to fortress and I did the same. While I was aging I built a church and got the church tech card, and when I hit age 3 (about 20 secs after him) I sent for the black watch. By now my base was surrounded by barracks and he had put groups of units around all the available gold mines and herds otuside my base, even getting his villies to herd deer away from me I cut wood and sold it for gold and sent for highlanders, but as they were just being sent off for he attacked my villagers with 9 lancers. These absolutely owned my black watch (didn't know lancers could take down highlanders so well lol) and tried to get my villies but I had been placing houses in a maze in my base and they just stood in the middle while his horses ran around the outside (hope they don't fix that pathing bug anytime soon :P.

My highlanders came and I made about 20 lbows (at this point the only resource I could get was wood and sell it at the market for other stuff) and researched the thin red like (seeing as lancers owned me last time). I went towards where I knew his barracks was but it was surrouned by a whole load of shipments. I think the only units he ever built were in colonial and they were powered by resource shipments. Now his army was comprised solely of shipments (except for some lancers) - he had 2 falconets, highlanders, pikes and rods, and some more lancers. I got caned and he just marched into my base and I resigned.

Although the main reason I lost is that I had no food or gold anywhere near me past 10 minutes (lol), if you end up fighting a civ who often FFs but can also rush and they only reveal their deck after 2 minutes, is there a slower version of this strat where you can get some defences out?

Could you have not built some dragoons to deal with the lancers and then lb's and culverins and blackwatch to sort out anything he could throw at you? Surely your economy would be able to fly past his with the extra villagers and not sending as many resource cards and you should have easily been able to expand out to get more mines when needed.

However without seeing the game you never know. I feel that crossbows early on is not a strong rush and even with pikes thrown in you should have no problems.

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Where's the 1000 coin? Do you have any recordings! I love feeling like a person when they questioned my horrible strategy (Ports Muskeeter Masser). I doubt you can get 700 coin in like 1 minute. Using the 2:1 ratio with 19 villagers on food and 7 villagers on coin you can't get 700 coin in 1 minute. This is not anti-FF its not even a FF cause its not fast. BWICK gets you to the base quicky. I tried working this strategy, but double highlanders get killed easily. A Dutch FF with a halberdier and skirmisher combo can beat this easily. Spainish if they had a TP would get shipments fast. I dunno how but on G Plains I FFed with 3 shipments avaliable. (203xp per TP!) 8+7skirmishers +2 cannon pwns at everything except calvary.

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This is the slowest strategy ever made. When are you going to be aggressive? Take down the TC? What if I'm again a German FF and he gets like 50 mercs? Dutch FF Mercing? Port Turtle Boom. Spain Skirmisher Screw? French Frickin' Fortress!? They've got curraissers to handle your cannon and skirmishers to beat the highlanders. How about a Russian FF and he attacks you with 10 oprichniks. Your dead with no defence. An Ottoman Spahi FF and abus guns. How would you get a total of 1700 coin (1000 for mercs and 700 for age up) in under 2-3 minutes? Also 2000 coin for like 4 falcs made locally.

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If you try this at any civ you will get pwned and majorly owned and I will laugh at you for being so slow and stupid.

It is easier said than being done.

[This message has been edited by Genkai0 (edited 06-15-2006 @ 06:29 AM).]

I don't think highlanders and bw are a good army to repel a ff attack. The cannons come out too late really and if you lose a lot the highlanders and bw to enemy cannons or skirms you wasted quite a bit of resources and cards.

hey mat,

I am not sure if the problem here is poeple dont know brits or play them, but this is a great way of exploiting brits capacity of generating an economy. Plus, you can easily modify it on the run to adapt, since of a nice economy base. And, I think, british is not a one time killer with overwhleming force like otto or germans, you have to be able to boom away and take the advantage on the run. Now, I understand this is not the apelling bwkic one time punch devastating fast attack, but you have more booming capacity, and can change it on the run anytime.

And I agree with Stophon, this is an hybrid of booming capacity (40 vills colonial) and a nice brit strenght, wich is the Black watch.

you could possibly insert some jaeger in there for the skirm/casas ?

Colonial warfare ? boom less, ship colonial militia, and pump long bows. wall, gate, and use the range.

ok ok, this is not easy, but brit are not easy, anyway here is my two cents !

What! This is just like the BWKiC! I'm only kidding! (Sorry, who can resist?)

As for the BWKiC comparisons, remember that people are busy and won't necessarily perform a detailed side-by-side of two strats. They're more likely to scan from top to bottom and see the final output, and they're going to look to you for the initial analysis of what makes a strat great. It might be useful to provide additional details of what you feel is unique about the strat, your goals, etc. Recorded games are almost a must for strats, too.

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I think you might be looking at things the wrong way -- "strat rivalries" are largely wasted energy. Is your strat's "power" threatened by the schooner boom? Is BWKiC threatened by Stophon4's 40-vill colonial strat? Obviously not. In fact, it's quite the opposite -- the possibility of multiple strategies from a civ raises the strength of that civ. If the opponent doesn't know what's coming, every strat becomes better.

Overall, try not to get too upset at criticism of any new strat, as it is inevitable that it will happen. It's really part of the game. Take a second look some time at the BWKiC thread and you'll see both compliments and some tough criticism. Both were very helpful to me in evolving my strategy.

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Awesome ESO nick -- I could go for some Final Fantasy VII right about now. Beatnik out.

to rogers: my economy was good in that I had about twice as many villagers as him, but he had starved me of all resources. I had one gold mine near me that I used for highlanders and aging up, and the 10 deer and 2 berry bushes nearby were exhausted before I got to fortress age. There were no other nearby herds/berries/mines that weren't covered by lancers. All I had was wood (which was running out) and a market. It was impossible :P

Also: although 17 highlanders and 4-5 falcs seems nice by 12 minutes, if you put the 1000 gold and 1000 food for highlanders into lbows, vet lbow upgrade and the yeomen card then you could have 2 falcs and a whole load of veteran yeomen earlier. You could then use this force to defend against attacks much earlier and then send for the black watch, while continuing to boom. If a german attacks you at 10 minutes with lands, black riders, uhlans, skirms and maybe falcs there's not a lot you can do with only 17 highlanders (falconets arriving once BRs are in your base). The lbows and falconets could be ready to meet this, and although lbows aren't any where near as good as highlanders you can produce and replace them, rather than only have a max of 17 - plus they can take out falconets pretty easily. With your huge economy you can keep spamming lbows for a quite a while, while all his troops are one hit wonders - once his mercs are gone, he can't get them any more.

Ok, i'll try to answer some questions here.

Genkai: Yes, it is quite possible to get 1000 coin in the 1:30 age up time between discover and colonial. Ask OpenAmp or Killersquirrel (i showed it to them first while they were in observer mode). They were both like "wtf" when i aged at 6:00 with no 700 gold card.

Also, the point of this isnt to be aggressive. You only built 7-8 manors in colonial, why waste 13 more free vills? Use your army for defense. Build some culvs. Build walls. Whatever you need to do. Im sorry if you havent had success with it (have you even tried it?)

Also, vs. a german player, instead of shipping the 9 more highlanders you can ship jags or 2 more falcs and make 3 locally so you have 8 BW/13 jags or 8 BW/5 falcs when they arrive with their lands/BR/jags.

Beatnik: Im sorry, i didnt mean to compare to your strat. Its a great strat and fun to do, i was just ticked for my strat being called the exact same as your but slower. No worries man. I dont care about criticism, i do care about lack of appreciation and ignorance.

IlostmyExplorer: It was a good call to stick it out in colonial when you saw his forward rax. Since you have the resources anyway, i like sending colonial militia if i get rushed and building a barracks slightly off site to make lbows. Once i feel his rush has been repelled, i mix in pikes to take down their forward base(s). Staying in colonial is fine as brits because of their excellent econ and the ability of mass lbows to keep up with most fortress age units. Dont forget to put muskets/pikes in there to take those lancers down.

To everyone: This really isnt a good strat to use on maps like Rockies where there are few hunts and few gold mines accessible to you without taking huge risks. You need at least 2 gold mines and 2 hunt groups if you want to this to be effective.

Also, this is just ONE build order that you can use this strat for. I have not even begun explored the possibilities this strat holds, such as getting black watch followed by mass longbows created during age up, etc. I have only posted one version (well, 2 now, 17 highlanders and 8 highlanders/5 falcs). The ability to adapt is key. Brits are difficult because they have no real set strat. Spanish FF, Ports turtle FF-FI, Ottomans rush/powerplay. British dont have any of these. They are a unique civ with many unique strategies that i am now trying to explore.

genkai, having your strat get criticized does NOT give you the right to blindly flame another's. you're acting like a 4 year old.

to mine the 1000 coin to click age up 20 seconds after getting to colonial you need 15 vills to mine coin as you start to age up.

oh, wow, but we have 26! that's still 11 left! the 11 can hunt for food and collect the needed 700 food 15 seconds sooner than the age up time, leaving you 165 VS to do as you like. that's 82 wood, nearly enough for a manor.

now with 27 vills, and starting the age up, you have 2430 VS at your disposal.

think before you type, ass.

Im happy that you would rush to my defense OpenAmp, but please, no need to fight flame with flame.

I just dowloaded a bunch of screen shots if you guys want to take a look. Here are the links:

http://www.savefile.com/files/4559878

http://www.savefile.com/files/6497535

http://www.savefile.com/files/1218600

http://www.savefile.com/files/1828880

Maybe this will clear any doubts about times .

Enjoy!

No match for my Spanish fast industrial