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Topic Subject: RIFF - Russian Imprisoning Fast Fortress
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posted 06-16-06 04:57 AM EDT (US)   
RIFF - Russian Imprisoning Fast Fortress

(For those who have already read it, I've re-wrote the entire fotress age sections to give a bit more detail on what I'm trying to accomplish)

Introduction

This is the strategy that have been using for the past few weeks with my Russian home city. It begins quite similar to ultimitsu's Russian fast fortress. I use the 20 settler colonial with 500 food age up combo that ultimitsu devised and then play aggressively from then on, using multiple military shipments and maintaining villager flow. I have had much success with it, often beating players ranked up to 10 power rating levels above me.

The strengths of this strategy are the following:

  • Competitive fortress time (~7:45)
  • 3 shipments available for military upon hitting fortress with the 4th coming soon after
  • Your deck is not revealed until after you click fortress (optional)
  • Strong (20 settler) economy upon hitting fortress
  • Very little idle TC time
  • Allows settler production upon hitting fortress
  • Does not require trade posts
  • Very flexible
  • No particular cards are actually needed!
  • It's unexpected!

    That last point is actually very important. Almost everyone expects a Russian player to rush. I've even shocked some higher level players with my fortress time. One (German) opponent simply said 'Umm...' when I reached fortress before he did.

    There are also some problems with this deck:

  • A fast unexpected rush can sometimes be fatal
  • This version requires a level 60 home city

    On that last point, it's obviously a very tall order for having a level 60 home city. It is however needed for the 500 food. You can do a version of it using 17 settler age up 400 wood and shipping 700 gold but you lose a shipment and waste time. It is however a little safer since you get to colonial faster.

    I know what you're all wondering; can this strategy beat the German FF? I am pleased to say, 'Indeed it can!' I've won the last two games I've had against German. The first was 5 power ratings higher than me and did a standard fast fortress; I started by destroying his trade routes then locked him in his base using town centres. The second was only 1 level higher than me and tried a reasonably slow Nootka rush. I've included record games of both of these as they demonstrate the strategy well and everyone always likes to see the Germans lose!

    The Deck

    As I said earlier, this deck does not require any specific cards. The cards you choose is really up to you, however there are some strong recommendations I would make.

    2 Falconets - Excellent card, I don't think I need to say much here.
    6 Oprichniks - The best raiding cavalry in the game. You cannot play aggressively and not raid. They're also useful if you just need a little extra help taking down buildings.
    Upgraded Church - 9 Kalmucks are you foremost anti-cavalry/artillery units.
    9 Highlanders - Excellent anti-cavalry support. These usually come out later on.
    1000 wood - You're going to need a lot of wood in this strategy.

    The above cards are highly recommended. I don't think any Russian deck should be without them.

    As for the other cards, choose cards that will aid your aggression. I suggest at least another 2 fortress age military-based shipments (eg. 17 strelets, 11 musketeers, Advanced Strelet Training).

    This is my current deck. I'm always changing it around so I wouldn't expect you to copy it card-for-card but instead just use it as a reference point for your own deck.

    Notice all my colonial age cards and the 300 wood card. Those are there to trick my opponent into thinking I'm going to rush. It also deters them from trying a rush themselves as it looks as if I am heavily prepared. That only works if you reveal your deck though so having these cards is up to you. You could leave them out of your deck and keep your deck hidden but like I said, it's your decision.

    The Strategy

    Okay, so this is the actual strategy. I'll simply list the build order and then give some additional details at the end of each section.

    Discovery Age
    Plan: Get 20 settlers and do a lot of herding. Send no cards.
    Build order:

  • All settlers on food, get 3 settlers queued ASAP.
  • Send 1 settler to the wood crate(s) and 1 to herd, leave others collecting food crates.
  • Build house; leave the gold crate; all settlers on food.
  • Herd! You need lots of huntables nearby in case of a raid/rush.
  • Keep queuing settlers, sending the last 2 batches to gold
  • Advance (500 food) and distribute 13 settlers on gold and 7 settlers on food. This should give you around 900 gold and 700 food when you arrive in colonial.

    I cannot emphasise enough how much you need to herd. If your villagers are ever more than 3 seconds away from your town centre then a raid or rush will kill them. You should have at least 2 packs of huntables right over your town centre by the time you hit colonial. Thanks to herding, German uhlan raiding can't touch you. See the recorder game (especially the second one) to see what I mean by the herding. The raiding uhlans couldn't even get close to my settlers.

    Regarding treasures, I recommend getting wood treasures for houses first. You may have noticed that making 20 settlers completely fills your population meaning you can't ship units if you need them.

    Colonial Age
    Plan: Collect 500 food and advance. Send no cards. Keep herding!
    Build order:

  • Send 3 or 4 settlers from either food or gold to collect the age-up food.
  • Advance using 17 strelets as soon as the 500 food is collected.
  • Once you've clicked, distribute settlers with 13 on wood and 7 on food once you have another 200 gold (You'll need this to upgrade your strelets).

    And while advancing:

  • Send for upgraded church.
  • Build a church a market and as many houses as you can.
  • Upgrade wood cutting in market
  • Use food exclusively for queuing settlers.
  • Don't redistribute settlers when these are done!
  • Send all new settlers to food.

    Not really much to say here. Have your wood cutters cut at the single trees close to your town centre first as these are the most protected. Build your houses and church in front of your town centre to act as a sort of wall. Have them still in range of the town centre though: we don't want to lose them but I'd rather lose them than our settlers or TC.

    Early Fortress Age
    Plan: Conjure up a huge army using shipments while continuously producing settlers and then start gaining map control.

    This is where build orders go out the window and the real strategy comes in. Our goals in this age are to:

    Create an Army to:

  • Destroy any opposing FF army
  • Dominate the map
  • Protect your explorer
  • Scare your opponent
    And if your opponent is still in colonial booming
  • Destroy or cripple them

    and to
    Build 2 town centres to:

  • Imprison your opponent
  • Give you the fastest fortress boom in the game (9 settlers every 50 seconds)
  • Cut off your opponents gold supplies
  • Put your opponent on the defence

    If you sent for upgraded church you will have 2 shipments when you hit fortress and another shipment arriving just after 9 minutes. The first card sent should always be 1000 wood so that you can afford the Kalmucks from the church. The second card depends on what your opponent will have. I usually send 17 more strelets since they seem to do well against everything and the Kalmucks can take care of everything that counters them (melee cav and falcs). The third card I usually send for one of the following:

  • 6 Oprichniks to raid your opponents miners and hunters while you boom and get TCs up.
  • 11 Musketeers if you want a fast addition to your army.
  • Advanced Strelet Training if you think that massing strelets would be a good idea against your opponent.
  • 2 Falconets if your opponent is weak and you want to siege.

    This army that you send for is going to be very population consuming. You really have to pay attention to what you queue first. Queue settlers first since they require 3 pop space. Then queue military shipments, they require just 1 pop space to ship. Once you have sent for all your military cards, send for the Kalmucks. The great thing about the church units is that you can be completely under-housed and still send for them. Keep in mind though that if you want to keep up settler production you're going to need to build more houses. Because of this it's important that you queue as many settlers as you can so that they keep coming while you get those houses up.

    You should be able to beat any other FF army with yours and still have some units left over. Depending on your casualties, try to get some more strelets out but DO NOT attack your opponents base. Your armys purpose now is to guard your explorer while he imprisons them with town centres.

    The Army

    These are some of the different armies I like to have. Units are listed in the order I ship them (ship 1000 wood when it says Kalmucks, note that Kalmucks are listed first because I send for the 1000 wood first. You should actually call out the Kalmucks last since they require no pop space)

    9 Kalmucks + 34 (17+17) Vet. Strelets + 11 Musketeers - This is my primary army for against any opponent that is also fast fortressing and I expect they have a large army. I've found it works well against the Germans, Ottomans, Spanish, French and I would imagine the Dutch too though I am yet to play them. Tip: Try to get the Kalmucks out as fast as possible since many teams can raid with cavalry in early fortress (Germans with uhlans, Otto with Spahi and hussars, Spain with lancers and hussars). If you can get your Kalmucks out before these come then you can quickly wipe them out giving you a huge advantage. Against one Spanish player who was about 7 levels above me, I took out an army of lancers and hussars without taking a hit because of my Kalmucks.

    9 Kalmucks + 34 (17+17) Vet. Strelets + 2 Falconets or 6 Oprichniks - Sometimes I include falconets or oprichniks if I need some siege for taking out trade posts or maybe even a forward base. Use this with caution though. If you suspect a large army then it's usually best to keep the siege for later as falconets will die quickly to the likes of war wagons or Spahi.

    9 Kalmucks + 17 Vet. Strelets + 2 Falconets + 6 Oprichniks - This is the army I use against the Brits. The British generally use infantry and falconets in fortress. Use the Kalmucks and oprichnik to take out the falconets and the longbows and any pikes should be a breeze with your falconets and strelets. This leaves you with a strong army for launching a siege on them. Take out barracks or stables first then find settlers. Don't waste time on the town centre or houses. I find that British are generally the easiest team to face.

    This army would also theoretically work against a Russian that doesn't rush, however I'm yet to encounter such a player. If you expect a fast Russian rush, just send for 300 wood early on and build a barracks. Strelets won't be able to take out the barracks before you get to fort and most of them will die anyway. Just continue with your shipping (you can skip the Kalmucks if you're low on shipments), take out the forwards base then overwhelm him with your superior army.

    For those of you playing at home, you may have noticed that I haven't written up anything for against the Portuguese. I've only played one Port with this strategy and unfortunately he was a Brigadier (I'm a Major) so it was a pointless game anyway. I honestly don't know what to do against Port as Russian. Dragoons, minutemen and town centres are a bit too much for your army to handle and you can't out boom them so I'm afraid you're on your own when it comes to Portuguese. Sorry

    After the First Battle

    This is often the turning-point in the game and also varies very dramatically. I will however try to share some of my experience with you.

    What you do depends a lot on how much of your army survived (I actually assume that it did, against another FF, you should always have the better army). Regardless of what happens, I recommend that you try to produce a lot of strelets. You've upgraded them so you might as well use them. Hopefully you've still got a fair number of Kalmucks alive so cavalry aren't too much of a threat to your strelets.

    If your army is still quite large and you have both falconets shipped and alive you might want to consider attacking their base. Send a Kalmuck to quickly explore their base (try not to let it die), if they are massing units you probably don't want to attack. If they appear not to have many units then by all means attack. You should take out any trade posts they might have first. Many FF'ers rely solely on their shipments for units, destroying one trade post now might save you from having to handle 13 jaegers later.

    If it doesn't look like a good idea to attack then simply move your units close to his base (but not in it), preferably near some gold or at least hunts. This is your way of gaining map control and putting him on the defence. You should be getting close to 600 wood stockpiled. Have your explorer come down behind you troops and build a town centre next to some gold. Your army has to protect him while it goes up. I recommend also trying to get a barracks up nearby and then do the same on the other side of their base. You should be booming settlers and queuing strelets as much as possible.

    Your primary objectives are these:

  • Put him on the defence
  • Keep your army alive and growing
  • Keep queueing settlers from as many TCs as possible
  • Cut off his gold supplies using your army and town centres

    No gold => No mercenaries => No falconets => No cavalry => No trouble for your strelets

    Watch the game against Fire_Dragon (British). The image below is of the mini-map once I had established map control. This is exactly what I expect to happen with this strategy. Two town centres, one either side of his base. He starts to build falconets and even manages to take out a town centre but I hold back and before long he is out of gold. Also notice how I put the second town centre right on the coast. This would have harassed any fishing boats if he made them. He can't build falconets and can't build cavalry. I soon overpower his massed long bows with strelets and a few falconets for siege and its game over.

    Recordings

    poita (Russia) versus h0xy (Germany)
    Fast Fortress versus Fast Fortress
    http://www.savefile.com/files/7456935

    poita (Russia) versus MaceOfAlandris (Germany)
    Fast Fortress versus Nootka Rush
    http://www.savefile.com/files/4560396

    poita (Russia) versus Fire_Dragon (British)
    Fast Fortress versus Turtle/Manor Boom/Longbow spam
    http://www.savefile.com/files/5798102

    Closing Word

    First off I would like to thank ultimitsu for inspiring me to try a 20 settler Russian fast fortress. In the last 3 days I have gone up around 125 points on cuetech thanks to this strategy, beating German FF, British booms, a German rush, Ottoman FF, Russian rushes, Spanish FF, French FF and being torn apart by one Brigadier's Port FF. It's opened my eyes to the power of the town centre and map control and I've definitely become a better player since using it. I hope all the other Russian players out there at least give it a go, as long as you don't use it against me


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

    [This message has been edited by poita (edited 06-17-2006 @ 05:34 AM).]

  • Replies:
    posted 06-16-06 05:07 AM EDT (US)     1 / 113  
    great~

    you know what? i actually played against someone who used russian FF against myself, and in failure of recognising it(i never had anyone done my own strat against me), i attacked at the wrong time and lost

    its great too see russian players have realised the future is the mighty russain FF

    posted 06-16-06 05:13 AM EDT (US)     2 / 113  

    Quote:

    uou know what? i actually played against someone who used russian FF against myself, and in failure of recognising it(i never had anyone done my own strat against me), i attacked at the wrong time and lost

    Ha, the irony!

    The guy in the last recording (Fire_Dragon) said after the game "How can I stop that? The guy before you did the same thing". I didn't realise that other Russian players actually FF.


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
    posted 06-16-06 06:49 AM EDT (US)     3 / 113  
    Wow, Simply Amazing... One of the best Russian Strategies for me.

    Lamer: FF.
    Me: Why?
    Lamer: Cause you'll be in 1 age ahead of the other guys and have a better eco, plus you can turtle and since its on your TC + couple of towers you can't go wrong.
    Me: Uh, we're on the G Plains, how the heck am I gonna turtle?
    posted 06-16-06 06:55 AM EDT (US)     4 / 113  
    Ha Ha nice one poita...

    U sure love ur ruskies.

    Edit: Just played poita, both russians and he owned, masses of cossacks,orpis with manchu..omg....forced me into a corner and surrounded me in Town Centers

    I was boat booming so i dragged the game out but i still had no chance really.

    Gd Strat


    If u played Stronghold u might enjoy this http://www.zshare.net/download/sh-mix-mix-rar.html

    [This message has been edited by Swirl (edited 06-16-2006 @ 08:07 AM).]

    posted 06-16-06 08:17 AM EDT (US)     5 / 113  
    Only 6 levels away. >< Looks like a nice strat. Will check out those recs.
    posted 06-16-06 09:18 AM EDT (US)     6 / 113  
    I like it! In my opinion, I would send atp and get a few tps while in age 1, this way you can end up getting a couple more sipments.

    9 kalmucks are essential, as you wisely included them. They are very good as they beat up on WW (cost-effectively) and annoying artillery.

    I would say this is a pretty smart strat, good job!


    "Dutch are OP!"
    "Iriquois are OP!"
    "Stophon is OP!"

    tEk Clan #1 US Clan
    posted 06-16-06 09:30 AM EDT (US)     7 / 113  
    Looks very good, not enough time to watch the recs, but will do soon!

    All I need to do is lvl up my Russian by 57...

    posted 06-16-06 09:44 AM EDT (US)     8 / 113  

    Quote:

    I like it! In my opinion, I would send atp and get a few tps while in age 1, this way you can end up getting a couple more sipments.

    9 kalmucks are essential, as you wisely included them. They are very good as they beat up on WW (cost-effectively) and annoying artillery.

    I would say this is a pretty smart strat, good job!

    Thanks

    I have actually experimented extensively with ATP. Sending for ATP is good but it slows you down too much IMO. You need to stop to get wood and I feel that it doesn't pay off fast enough.

    Quote:

    Looks very good, not enough time to watch the recs, but will do soon!

    All I need to do is lvl up my Russian by 57...

    Thanks. LOL yeah the level 60 requirement would be a bit annoying I would understand. Maybe try the 17 settler with 700 gold. ultimitsu describes it well in his russian FF thread.

    Yeah I would recommend watching the recs. I find it's a lot easier to pick up a strat by watching it in action.

    Also the first and third games were two of my most enjoyed games ever


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
    posted 06-16-06 10:15 AM EDT (US)     9 / 113  
    I really like the sound of this. All of the other Russian strats are relatively typical for anyone who plays Russia somewhat regularly. This is a little more unique although the level 60 requirement is obviously pretty steep.

    The only place I see this as possibly having trouble is against an all out colonial age rush by someone using units that have some siege capability (Otto rush, musket rush, pike rush, etc).


    Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
    MNBob's AOE Page
    posted 06-16-06 10:39 AM EDT (US)     10 / 113  

    Quote:

    I really like the sound of this. All of the other Russian strats are relatively typical for anyone who plays Russia somewhat regularly. This is a little more unique although the level 60 requirement is obviously pretty steep.

    The only place I see this as possibly having trouble is against an all out colonial age rush by someone using units that have some siege capability (Otto rush, musket rush, pike rush, etc).

    Yeah an all out rush would be a worst case scenario for this strategy. The hope is that with your opponent seeing colonial age resource shipments and military that he will call off his rush.

    I've been playing this strat for quite a while now. Only russians have rushed me except that one German, but as you may have seen, I managed to hold that off.


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
    posted 06-16-06 10:51 AM EDT (US)     11 / 113  
    When you send kalmucks, wouldn't you want to send them last (or toward the end?)

    That way, when the kalmucks come out, they won't be using pop space that could be used for military shipments. Just a suggestion (you may have reasons for sending them first, like anti-cav, etc..)

    For ATP, instead of sending 7 vils to coin, you could send 5, and use 2 coin vils, with a few food vils as well to gather wood.


    I am Rumour Kontrol.
    posted 06-16-06 10:57 AM EDT (US)     12 / 113  

    Quote:

    When you send kalmucks, wouldn't you want to send them last (or toward the end?)

    That way, when the kalmucks come out, they won't be using pop space that could be used for military shipments. Just a suggestion (you may have reasons for sending them first, like anti-cav, etc..)

    For ATP, instead of sending 7 vils to coin, you could send 5, and use 2 coin vils, with a few food vils as well to gather wood.

    I guess you're refering to this sentence:

    Quote:

    Units are listed in the order I ship them (ship 1000 wood when it says Kalmucks).

    I'm going to change this now since I can now see where the confusion is. I do send Kalmucks last, they are listed first because I send for the 1000 wood first, not the Kalmucks.

    I'll add a note in because it isn't very clear now that I read it but yeah you're absolutely right, Kalmucks definitely should be sent last.

    As for the ATP with a few on wood, I guess it could be possible. I'll look into it and see if you still get all your shipments and can still pull it off fast.

    You only just get enough resources so that you can advance as soon as the 500 food is collected so it would be very tight and although I know that the ATP would pay off in the long run, I'm not sure if it would still allow the same speed and card shipments.


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

    [This message has been edited by poita (edited 06-16-2006 @ 10:58 AM).]

    posted 06-16-06 11:25 AM EDT (US)     13 / 113  

    Quote:

    For those of you playing at home, you may have noticed that I haven't written up anything for against the Portuguese. I've only played one Port with this strategy and unfortunately he was a Brigadier (I'm a Major) so it was a pointless game anyway. I honestly don't know what to do against Port as Russian. Dragoons, minutemen and town centres are a bit too much for your army to handle and you can't out boom them so I'm afraid you're on your own when it comes to Portuguese. Sorry


    What was the Brigaders name?


    ESO: Enemy

    Gaming rig: Athlon 3800+ X2 250x10 =2500Mhz/WD 160GB SATA/PQI 2x 1GB PC3200/PNY 7800GT/Shuttle SN25P

    posted 06-16-06 11:45 AM EDT (US)     14 / 113  

    Quote:

    What was the Brigadiers name?

    That would be __saLaDin__, he's 2056 on cuetech just now.

    Here's a link to the game stats http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=8fbf10aa-7c66-b945-87dc-d1d925625fc8&md=ZS_Supremacy

    To be honest I was playing terribly anyway. I really have no clue what to do against a Port FF. The goons are just too much, he hit and runs all your units, leading you towards a TC or fort where you'll get killed while chasing them.

    I could've done better, don't think I could've won though.


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

    [This message has been edited by poita (edited 06-16-2006 @ 01:25 PM).]

    posted 06-16-06 11:48 AM EDT (US)     15 / 113  
    Wow, very nice job and a lot of effort

    Too bad I'm like 30 levels away, but there have been a few good Russian Strategies out there that I may need to try

    Thank you for the article and recs!


    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    [][][][][][][][][][] Stonewall J [][][][][][][][][][][]
    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    posted 06-16-06 01:21 PM EDT (US)     16 / 113  
    If all strat guides were this well written I'd probably
    try more. You've convinced me to take my ruskie city
    out of mothballs.
    posted 06-16-06 02:34 PM EDT (US)     17 / 113  
    Excellent post!

    Although I don't think it's explicitly stated, am I correct in assuming that when you age to II, you have 14 on Food, and 6 on gold (okay well that part is stated). Then, in the transition, you keep the same ratios, until you hit 700F, and then send most to Gold, leaving a couple to collect the food crates crates. Once you have enouugh and hit III, then redistribute to 13W & 7F.

    Also, for those of us with a lower lvl HC, what is the best way to age up to II in your opinion? Cows, settlers or wood?

    Oh, another thing, After reaching III, you said to keep the 13:7 going and cue villies to Food. At what point would you normally start switching over to coin?

    thnx

    posted 06-16-06 02:52 PM EDT (US)     18 / 113  
    Excellent, excellent post poita.

    I also wanted to ask about coin.

    Quote:


    Redistribute settlers 13:7 on wood and food respectively once you have another 200 gold (You'll need this to upgrade your strelets).

    Select your deck and send for upgraded church.

    Get 3 houses and a church up.

    Use food exclusively for queuing settlers.

    Don't redistribute settlers when these are done!

    Keep building houses as population requires.

    Send all new settlers to food.

    It seems that in Fortress, there are no villies on coin then. So it's just the 200 for vet strelets and then that's it?

    I thought maybe you mistyped but then I realized that you are using the saved up shipments to win the thing in Fortress.

    What if your opponent takes out your falconets though? Where would the coin come to build new ones? Also you can't build anything except strelets. I guess by then you would have unstoppable, nicely upgraded, strelet masses?


    There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
    posted 06-16-06 05:59 PM EDT (US)     19 / 113  
    i like the strat but i havent used it yet, i want to watch he replays first. but everytime i try it says "splash.exe" and its messes up. any help?

    also, id suggest taking out 300 wood and adding Colonial miltia. i suppose it does give awway that your not rushing, so i see why its there, but if they already decidied to rush, they really could care less if you FF.

    also, id suggest putting ina factory over the mortar card in age 4. obviously it would help more.

    edit: when you hit age up to colonial, what is your distribution, 13 gold and 7 food i suspect?

    [This message has been edited by brandnizzle (edited 06-16-2006 @ 06:00 PM).]

    posted 06-16-06 07:15 PM EDT (US)     20 / 113  
    sounds nice , i play almost all civ equally except british , port and dutch. But i love to play as russia and i never use any build order b4 XD. coz first card i send always the polar xplorer.i think ppl shouldnt use build order coz it make the game less fun. also wen i get polar xplorer i can have small army to rush like some bears, some wolf and the dog ^^, always manage to kill at least 1 vill the xplorer and force em garrision vill at age 1 for a while , kinda fun.
    one thing i wwonder about for this strat is i often use the 1000 wood card ( use 900 )for the tech that upgrade all to vet lev so that way u dont ned to spend 400 gold, 400 wood on upgrading musketer and strelet , then i use the 11 musketer card for anti cav and build some more. maybe i'm dumb but i dont often use the kalmucks since vet muskester is quite enough and cost 283 food, 94 gold for 5, so with the res equally 1000 wood u can build like 16-17 of vet musketers.( which give u like 170 more exp then can ship the 2 canons in or the fort it's depend on u r attacking or defending. ^^
    Again dont flame me for being noob :P coz i have no clue about build order
    posted 06-16-06 09:44 PM EDT (US)     21 / 113  
    Sounds like an awesome strategy, however for only one key reason IMO. No one expects the Russians to FF and not rush, it's more of the suprise factor rather than the strategy that wins the match, however it seems to be working so nice strategy.

    Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
    posted 06-17-06 02:52 AM EDT (US)     22 / 113  
    Thanks for all the replies from everyone!

    Quoted from Caboto:

    I don't think it's explicitly stated, am I correct in assuming that when you age to II, you have 14 on Food, and 6 on gold (okay well that part is stated). Then, in the transition, you keep the same ratios, until you hit 700F, and then send most to Gold, leaving a couple to collect the food crates crates. Once you have enouugh and hit III, then redistribute to 13W & 7F.

    Quoted from poita:

    Advance (500 food) and move another 7 settlers to gold giving you a 13:7 gold to food ratio.

    When you advance to colonial you put settlers 13:7 on gold to food. It appears that this is the most effective ratio for getting 700 food and around 900 gold once you hit colonial. While you collect the 500 food, the gold should get up to 1000 and you advance again.

    Quoted from poita:

    Redistribute settlers 13:7 on wood and food respectively

    When you click to fortress, move all your original gold miners to wood to give you the 13:7 wood to food ratio. I find this is good for getting around 3 batches of settlers queued and enough wood for houses and a church.

    Quoted from Caboto:

    Also, for those of us with a lower lvl HC, what is the best way to age up to II in your opinion? Cows, settlers or wood?

    I've never actually used this strat below lvl 60 but I image the best way would be 17 vils discovery, age up using 400 wood, build one more batch of settlers in age 2 and send for 700 gold. During age1-2, have maybe 3 or 4 on gold to get the 300 you need for fortress.

    This gives you the same age up time (if not faster) but you are one card down, which is a pain. Maybe if you use the 400 wood for trade posts you could regain the card? I might try it out. Another idea is that you could use the wood for a forwards blockhouse so that your army can attack quicker. Feel free to experiment!

    Regarding Fortress Age Coin
    (I'm going to add this into the strat once I'm done with this post since I understand it could be a bit confusing)

    During advance to fortress you have 13 on wood and 7 on food. When you get to fortress, you keep this ratio and queue all settlers to food.

    The reason for this is because you need a lot of wood to build houses, strelets and town centres but you also need a lot of food to build strelets and multiple batches of settlers (once the TC(s) are up)

    When you switch some to gold is up to you. It's simply impossible to write a strat that governs exactly how your settlers are allocated and what you should be building for the first 20 mins of the game (I've already written up the first 10-12mins).

    If you're just pumping strelets and settlers then you don't need gold but obviously you might want it later if you plan to get falcs (as I did against the brit) or mercs. Sometimes I even mass musketeers instead of strelets, it depends what you're against. If your against a french (who I was yesterday) that's massing cuirs then strelets are definitely not a good choice. I switched over to musks and shipped in highlanders and oprichniks.

    You really have to use your own initiative. The 'After First Battle' section is based on what I want to (and have found to) happen, this section is more like a 'goal' than a guide. If your opponent is doing something different then you'll have to switch it up a bit.

    Quoted from Riant:

    What if your opponent takes out your falconets though? Where would the coin come to build new ones? Also you can't build anything except strelets. I guess by then you would have unstoppable, nicely upgraded, strelet masses?

    As much as I love strelet masses, they don't always work. The aim of this strat is to imprison them in their own base, not to endlessly siege it. You want to just defend your prison walls until he runs out of gold. You don't actually need many falcs. It your opponent is building falcs then get some oprichnik to take them out (shipped preferably). They can only get 5 falcs from a 2000 gold mine. Note also that town centres do a very good job of taking out falcs when you garrison them with settlers.

    Also note that you shouldn't be even using your falcs unless you're hoping to do a major base attack. In the third game against the brit, I did a major siege, took out some outposts and a barracks using falcs early on. I must admit I was hoping to win with that siege but I didn't realise that longbows countered everything (including falcs) :/

    Quoted from brandnizzle:

    i like the strat but i havent used it yet, i want to watch he replays first. but everytime i try it says "splash.exe" and its messes up. any help?

    also, id suggest taking out 300 wood and adding Colonial miltia. i suppose it does give awway that your not rushing, so i see why its there, but if they already decidied to rush, they really could care less if you FF.

    also, id suggest putting ina factory over the mortar card in age 4. obviously it would help more.

    edit: when you hit age up to colonial, what is your distribution, 13 gold and 7 food i suspect?

    Sorry, no idea about that download not working My brother managed to get the so they should be working. Has anyone else had this problem?

    300 wood is my preference, colonial militia is yours. Like you said, colonial militia tells your opponent that you're not rushing which is sure to cause trouble.

    In addition to that, I don't like colonial militia. I don't like having to garrison vils and a definitely do not like have to spend 800 of my age up resources on defence. I'd much prefer to either build a rax, or send for strelets or cossacks. It's up to you though.

    I'll let you know that my game last night against the french was the first game with this strat that has gone to industrial. A factory would work but I like mortars for 3 reasons.

  • If your opponent is boat booming (very possible), mortars are your friend
  • If your prison is up then mortars are the perfect way to finish the game. You're right next to their base and they shouldn't be able to build culverins. It's game over for them.
  • Unicorn mortars are awesome! Cheap and very strong.

    It's up to you though. IMO heavy cannons are just better falcs. I'd rather just upgrade falcs if I wanted heavy cannons.

    Regarding age up settler distribution, yes you are correct, it's 13:7 gold to food. Do you think I should edit my post? I thought it was quite clear but people seem to be asking questions on it.

    Quoted from GreatViet:

    sounds nice , i play almost all civ equally except british , port and dutch. But i love to play as russia and i never use any build order b4 XD. coz first card i send always the polar xplorer.i think ppl shouldnt use build order coz it make the game less fun. also wen i get polar xplorer i can have small army to rush like some bears, some wolf and the dog ^^, always manage to kill at least 1 vill the xplorer and force em garrision vill at age 1 for a while , kinda fun.
    one thing i wwonder about for this strat is i often use the 1000 wood card ( use 900 )for the tech that upgrade all to vet lev so that way u dont ned to spend 400 gold, 400 wood on upgrading musketer and strelet , then i use the 11 musketer card for anti cav and build some more. maybe i'm dumb but i dont often use the kalmucks since vet muskester is quite enough and cost 283 food, 94 gold for 5, so with the res equally 1000 wood u can build like 16-17 of vet musketers.( which give u like 170 more exp then can ship the 2 canons in or the fort it's depend on u r attacking or defending. ^^
    Again dont flame me for being noob :P coz i have no clue about build order

    Thanks

    I don't like polar explorer for this strat. I see it as either polar explorer or 1000 wood card. I much prefer the 1000 wood. Don't get me wrong though, polar explorer is an awesome card with other russian strats! If you want to use it (on yukon maybe?) then go ahead, I guess it might speed things up but it's up to you.

    About westernization (the all vet upgrade for 900 wood). I used to use it but then I decided it wasn't worth it for this strategy. I want vet.strelets early and there's no way I can get them through westernization before the first battle. Also, considering no one build grendiers, westernization only saves you 100 res, and that's if you build strelets, musks and cossacks. I rarely build cossacks so I don't see it as a worthy investment. Besides, I need that wood for town centres

    Kalmucks aren't just for anti cav, they are anti artillery too, musks aren't. And btw, 9 Kalmucks is much better than 17 musks, at everything

    Quoted from Brtnboarder495:

    Sounds like an awesome strategy, however for only one key reason IMO. No one expects the Russians to FF and not rush, it's more of the suprise factor rather than the strategy that wins the match, however it seems to be working so nice strategy.

    Thanks. Yes the suprise factor does really help but I wouldn't say it's the only reason

    I like to think it has something to do with having possibly the best army you can at the 9-10min mark and imprisoning them with town centers :/

    Maybe that's just me though :/

    Again, thanks for all the replies folks! Hope you get to play it sometime soon!


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
  • posted 06-17-06 06:19 AM EDT (US)     23 / 113  
    Nice Strat, I dont think it can come close to beating a real german or spanish FF tho. I watched the german rec, he was pretty terrible, esp with his shipments. You had Kalmuks at about 10 mins and 2 falconet a bit after.

    As I suspected you didnt have enough wood to make a rax and upgrade ur shipped in stretlets right away. You didnt have enough wood untill much later to build a Rax because you were stuckbuilding houses for your shipments for a while.

    I've been trying to work a Russian FF with the church too and its pretty grim vs these civs. By the time you have your army of comparibly weaker shipments, they typically have the following.

    German:
    2 uhlan (from setter shipment), 8 vet skirm+3 Uhlan, 9 Uhlan, +2 falconet, +Mercs or more vet skirms.

    OR

    Spanish:
    4 hussar age up, 5 Lancer, 8 Rodelero, +2 Falconet +Mercs or Skirms and possibly 4 more lancer

    posted 06-17-06 06:34 AM EDT (US)     24 / 113  
    at this point, i think the russian FF early attack shouldnt have church, it should have mercs, fort (for cavalry and backing up), aged strelets, shipped falc, cossack, and locally made cavalry archer.

    go church generally means no attack for quite a while.

    i am on al osing streak in the moment, so I am re-assessing the fortress army.

    posted 06-17-06 07:17 AM EDT (US)     25 / 113  

    Quoted from Liscious:

    Nice Strat, I dont think it can come close to beating a real german or spanish FF tho. I watched the german rec, he was pretty terrible, esp with his shipments. You had Kalmuks at about 10 mins and 2 falconet a bit after.

    As I suspected you didnt have enough wood to make a rax and upgrade ur shipped in stretlets right away. You didnt have enough wood untill much later to build a Rax because you were stuckbuilding houses for your shipments for a while.

    I've been trying to work a Russian FF with the church too and its pretty grim vs these civs. By the time you have your army of comparibly weaker shipments, they typically have the following.

    German:
    2 uhlan (from setter shipment), 8 vet skirm+3 Uhlan, 9 Uhlan, +2 falconet, +Mercs or more vet skirms.

    OR

    Spanish:
    4 hussar age up, 5 Lancer, 8 Rodelero, +2 Falconet +Mercs or Skirms and possibly 4 more lancer

    Very good points. Yes h0xy did actually play a bit worse than some of the other German FFs I have faced. You might of noticed that I also wasn't playing very good. I had a good 10 or 20 seconds in discovery were I forgot to build settlers, which slowed me down quite a bit. Also, during the first battle my Kalmucks weren't shooting from a range but ran right into the battle, completely wasting their ranged resistance advantage. My strelets were also running round like loonies.

    I don't think I had Kalmucks at 10 mins did I? If so then they usually come out a lot earlier. I usually ship 1000 wood at ~7:45 so that 2 mins 15 secs for it to arrive and collect which sounds a bit wrong. If I did then I was playing very badly.

    That game didn't follow this guide exaclty since I shouldn't of even sent for falcs, opris would've been better for taking care of trade posts and they would also help in battles more than falcs too.

    I guess Germans do have the capacity to beat this strategy but then again, they are OP. To be honest though, I think this is the closest you'll get to beating them.

    Quoted from ultimitsu:

    at this point, i think the russian FF early attack shouldnt have church, it should have mercs, fort (for cavalry and backing up), aged strelets, shipped falc, cossack, and locally made cavalry archer.

    go church generally means no attack for quite a while.

    i am on al osing streak in the moment, so I am re-assessing the fortress army.

    Ha, I've recently been starting to reconsider Kalmucks against some teams. I've considered trying to get highlanders instead of kalmucks into the initial army, however you end up being quite vulnerable to falconets. I don't think 6 cossacks (especially non-vet) are enough to take them out if your opponent has any sort of meat-shield or anti-cav. Falconets will destroy your strelets and highlanders in no time. Also, Kalmucks can come out with a little less housing.

    I don't like manchu. I'd much rather have kalmucks over manchu anyday. Even if it was solely for anti-heavy cav. I can't stand any sort of cav archer. The speed and attack delay just put me off (and cav archers have no ranged resistance!)

    I'll let everyone know if I find anything better.

    Very good comments guys!


    - - ESO Name: poita - -
    - - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
    - - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
    My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
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