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Topic Subject: The DePorter
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posted 06-17-06 10:16 PM EDT (US)   
Prelude

Update, this strat was originally dveloped in vanilla 1.06 era when port was OP. now port is no longer OP but can act as a hard shell to crack for russian, when they fo CM TC and turtle. this strat is still effective for russian vs port, and it works the same for either latest vanilla, or latest TAD and TWC


The Game flow



Game starts

3 vils on hunt, 2 vils on food crates, then hunt as well. explorer hunt for food, make no vils, go fast colonial, go with 400 wood, hit colonial around 2:30, no later than 2:50, 600 food + 200 wood start is ideal.

make 1 house during aging, queue 3 vils, once hit age2 send 5 cossack and gather wood, 1 forward vil to build a forward BH with the wood.

3 cossack raiding, 2 cossack explorer the map + treasure hunt with explorer.

keep on making vils non-stop back home, spare some vils on wood.

( the standard fast colonial raid? far from it )


now the intersting part starts

between 4:00 to 4:50, Port has advanced to age2, and his TC wagon has arrived. attack! he will either let it die or build it right where it is. obviously they will just build it.

second shipment is 13 strelets, send them to forward BH, have them keep raiding.



at this point, the port player has a shipment ready, and he is thinking....

send muskts? get owned by strelets.

send xbow? may get owned by cossacks. (this is actually one of the better options)

send gold and go FF? you hope he does his, because he will never FF, he will also take fire just to collect them and end up with 700 gold to the end of the game.

send + 40% building HP? useless, because we are not seiging.

send colonial militia? good choice, this doubles TC's effeciencty in killing strelets, without it, 2 shots per strelets, with it, 1 shot. But this also means a completely idling economy.

send 2 towers? not only risking them getting killed instantly, he will also have to build them right next to his TC. again, he will not have access to hunting and mining out.

(decisions decisions...)

on top of the shipment dilemma, he has a food dilemma. he either makes vils or he saves food and waits for FF.

will there be a fortress? what to send after hitting fortress anyway? no gold no mamulukes, Port fortress offers no free strelets killing shipments.

(decisions decisions...)

and yet there are more problems ...what should he do with his vils?

have them take fire and gather anyway? strelets do very little damage to vils, but it is damage nevertheless.

or should he risk it and let them go far out from TC through the back and mine/chop/hunt somewhere else? there are cossacks running all around.

or should he keep them garrisoned and just keep shooting and hope strelets will eventually give up? well, we are not going to give up.

(decisions decisions...)

in the meantime you, the russian, have just made your first batch of strelets, then continue to shoot at his vils, seige at houses when they garrison, run back if their number is running low.

you will have your 3rd shipment ready. it depends on your hunting and chopping situation, send 700 wood or 700 food, depends on which is more needed at the time.

your 2 cossacks should be constantly scouting to see if he sneaked out and started a mill somewhere(which did actually happen in one of the 2 games). dont let his vils out of the box.

your vil count should overtaken his now, strelets are coming out all the time. you shipments should be accelerated by the vil + strelets build XP.

somewhere in between you may even send 7 cows for the kicks, build a pen and fatten them. 7 fat cows = about 100 strelets

if you lost all your cossacks, send 4 more, but dont send them too early, you kind want make cossack exist through out. another thing is you will need cossacks for his cassadores if he does get into fortress. make sure you kill them every time they come out.

after keeping him completely contained and unable to defeat you strelets you can choose to either build a foundry and make grenadiers, or make lots of muskts instead of strelets, or fortress and ship opris and falcs.

I will leave that choice to you.


The Deck



The Replays

I didnt get to do 2:30 colonial in either game due to treasure problem and starting crate numbers, but seems like it still worked against unsuspecting opponents.

2 games in 1 zip file

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-01-2009 @ 07:27 PM).]

Replies:
posted 06-17-06 10:24 PM EDT (US)     1 / 107  
Russia can beat Portugal? Whaaaaa??? Will definitely give this a shot, seeing as how nothing else works except maybe real good natives or water, but even then you have to be lucky. :/
posted 06-18-06 00:33 AM EDT (US)     2 / 107  
This kicks ass.

Is it good against other civs? I would like to think I can stop this with Dutch but I'm not so sure. You hit very early and you don't let up


agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 06-18-06 00:37 AM EDT (US)     3 / 107  
^^Same question

Can't wait to try this strat out with some tweakings of my own. Looks very good.

posted 06-18-06 00:49 AM EDT (US)     4 / 107  
I would think this would work against brits pretty well also. Pretty impressive. Your shipments and blockhouse units always seem to get there just in time to kep the pressure on.

ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

posted 06-18-06 01:52 AM EDT (US)     5 / 107  
I wish this would work against others, but for now port is the easiest target, for several reasons.

no age2 cavalry shipment
no good age2 unit to counter strelet
no melee cavalry age3 politician
no age3 melee cavalry shipment
no falconet shipment


british: can make longbows, can ship longbows, once pushed to age3 has falc shipment and 10 longbow shipment.

spanish: rods kill cossacks before strelets kill them, once hit fortress has hussar politician and lancer shipment.

french: CDB has twice HP against ranged than villager, strelet cant touch them, also has hussar shipment

dutch: hussar shipment and pike shipment, banks unraidable, just ship food and you will push into fortress, then bank powered mercs.

ottoman: actually i think this may work on otto, if done right, instead of strelets, make muskts at some point to counter the aging hussar, keep cossacks alive for aging abus, as long as he doesnt get that 1000 food for spahi you are safe.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 06-18-2006 @ 02:00 AM).]

posted 06-18-06 02:02 AM EDT (US)     6 / 107  
Omg... some mod, burn this thread!11

This is a really good one... if its the first time you are facing it, then it will probably happen like ultimitsu said

We haven't recorded our game... have we?


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
posted 06-18-06 04:13 AM EDT (US)     7 / 107  
It actually works. He beat me with it : / Even though I am not great with Portugese. I think if I actually played for a colonial war it wouldn't work nearly as well.. But you never know. And most Portugese won't suspect it and once the cossacks are in his it is too late. If this strat goes mainstream I may have to start walling against Russians...

This is an excellent Port killer and uses your fast colonial to great effect.

Edit: Omg, the recorded games are vs Me and Walker... OP -_-


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe

[This message has been edited by somme (edited 06-18-2006 @ 04:15 AM).]

posted 06-18-06 04:27 AM EDT (US)     8 / 107  
well...

i actually worked out a counter strat just to counter the counter of this strat

posted 06-18-06 04:30 AM EDT (US)     9 / 107  
Well I worked out a counter counter strat to counter the counter of the counter of this strat

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
posted 06-18-06 07:37 AM EDT (US)     10 / 107  
THis strat sounds horribly evil in paper, thers nothing worst than having your vills constantly garrisoned (or dead) so early, and like you said there isnt a good shipment for port to counter this, with spain it might be a bit easier, I actually think british will be able to hold its own, chop wood like mad and that will enable them to get villagers + outpost towers (by seinding 700wood) I dunno how it will play out in the field tho...... or even if its possible to gather the 700 wood b4 the russian is all over your villagers.
posted 06-18-06 08:21 AM EDT (US)     11 / 107  
Just watched your game against Walker. If he had had mamelukes in that deck I think you woulda been in a lot of trouble. Or if he had got his second tc up.

I would like to say I can kill this with Spain but it is a lethal strat and against the unsuspecting opponent :s


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
posted 06-18-06 10:31 AM EDT (US)     12 / 107  

Quote:

I actually think british will be able to hold its own, chop wood like mad and that will enable them to get villagers + outpost towers (by seinding 700wood) I dunno how it will play out in the field tho......

Yeah, I think British could hold this off with some work, but not as well as other civs. Mainly it's just going to be the surprise of it, which is what makes this so devestating.

I guess once you see the russian has aged up at 2:40 or so you should think about putting some walls up, no matter who you are.


ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

posted 06-18-06 11:00 AM EDT (US)     13 / 107  
Amen to that
posted 06-18-06 11:39 AM EDT (US)     14 / 107  

Quote:

Edit: Omg, the recorded games are vs Me and Walker... OP -_-

Omfg...

Quote:

Just watched your game against Walker. If he had had mamelukes in that deck I think you woulda been in a lot of trouble. Or if he had got his second tc up.

Didn't I have them? Anyway... It could be worse, since I was able to FF just because I had an walled mine there ^^

I guess the way to beat it is to use walls... the thing is you will only know its coming 30 seconds before the cossacks arive...


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
posted 06-18-06 11:48 AM EDT (US)     15 / 107  
Im playing russians at the moment after i got slightly bored of portugal:P. i always seem to get them on quick search and i have yet to find a counter strat.ill try it out next time i play port
i remember the days when port used to be "UPed"

Straw

[This message has been edited by Strawhat (edited 06-18-2006 @ 11:48 AM).]

posted 06-18-06 12:16 PM EDT (US)     16 / 107  
Great tactic, Blue Gaiden beat me with the base of this strat (strelets) the other day in the Warriors path tourney (ugh, first round matchup)

This is a great strat and the perfect counter to The Ports Colonial Militia'ed TCs because it utilitizes the best trash unit in the game (the strelet) it makes you spend vs on not units to kill army, but on garrisoning them to kill his cheap units, and in the end of you stay garrisoned long enough to keep those little 'bugs' (strelets) off you and keep dying without any real army (which other civs usually have in age 2 as ulti pointed out) so you fall behind and in the end get overpowered because you are forced to sit on your hands.)


Great strat Ulti, and you will get alot of Ports with it.


ESO: Enemy

Gaming rig: Athlon 3800+ X2 250x10 =2500Mhz/WD 160GB SATA/PQI 2x 1GB PC3200/PNY 7800GT/Shuttle SN25P

posted 06-18-06 01:31 PM EDT (US)     17 / 107  
Fun games to watch, "Ulti" (LAN games eh? ).

Walker had the excellent idea of walling off resources to be inaccessible by Strelets/Cossacks, but I stil could not believe how badly he crumbled that game. You had some 5x resources by game's end.
Somme did way better, holding on for a long while and almost matching you for economy. Did he expect the strat?


Now, Ultimitsu, how about we work something similar out for Dutch ? After all, we have nearly the same requisite troops, we have a similar early age up, we can more easily snipe villagers with Skirmishers (20 vs 14 range), though they are more expensive (but we don't need as many). My own anti-port strat of taking out the second TC with 8 Pikes at 4:10-4:25 only goes so far. I need help brainstorming on what to do next. Perhaps it's possible to employ the same "pincers" strategy with Dutch as well.


P.S.
Sorry to take this on a Dutch tangent, but this strat is thought inspiring.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 06-18-06 02:06 PM EDT (US)     18 / 107  

Quote:

Somme did way better, holding on for a long while and almost matching you for economy. Did he expect the strat?

I had no idea... He said, let me try this anti port strat... I said ok. 20 minutes and a lot of omfgs later I finally gave up.

I had my friend DAMNIT watch the game and he reckons if I had placed my second tc a little smarter to secure some food and not panicked when I saw the cossacks I could have won.

And... there is already a strat kinda similar to this called the skirms skewer and it works fairly well. Modify it a little and maybe it'll work.


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
posted 06-18-06 02:54 PM EDT (US)     19 / 107  
believe it or not, I had exactly the same idea today and I did it vs a port player, he lost 2 Tcs and a fort to this strategy but this strat of ultimitsu sounds really great
though personally I dont have any problems with ports, even in industrial and even when the port player masses goons and cassas and so on...
but this strat kicks major ass ^^
posted 06-18-06 07:27 PM EDT (US)     20 / 107  

Quote:

I guess the way to beat it is to use walls...

you know my counter strat for the couter? is exactly aimed at these who wall...

heeheehee....


Quote:

Great strat Ulti, and you will get alot of Ports with it.


and when are you going to come back to russian so we could have another RVR? heehee

Quote:

I actually think british will be able to hold its own, chop wood like mad and that will enable them to get villagers + outpost towers (by seinding 700wood) I dunno how it will play out in the field tho...... or even if its possible to gather the 700 wood b4 the russian is all over your villagers.

british can beat it if they have built a barracks and pump out longbows. the problem is not gathering the 700 wood but actually build tower, you see somme tried to build a tower a few times but i was in his base all the time so he couldnt really build anything.


Quote:

Walker had the excellent idea of walling off resources to be inaccessible by Strelets/Cossacks, but I stil could not believe how badly he crumbled that game. You had some 5x resources by game's end.
Somme did way better, holding on for a long while and almost matching you for economy. Did he expect the strat?


walker expected me to FF, so he tried FI.

he lost his TC not because he was careless, but because my cossacks were in its way that the TC wagon just couldnt build itself anywahere.

now i think about it, this strat will kill the TC wagon everytime, if there are lots of trees near the first TC , and provided you place your cossack in the right spot.

somme's success was partly based on my failure to scout the map properly, his 2 mills had no protection whatsoever.


Quote:


Now, Ultimitsu, how about we work something similar out for Dutch ? After all, we have nearly the same requisite troops, we have a similar early age up, we can more easily snipe villagers with Skirmishers (20 vs 14 range), though they are more expensive (but we don't need as many). My own anti-port strat of taking out the second TC with 8 Pikes at 4:10-4:25 only goes so far. I need help brainstorming on what to do next. Perhaps it's possible to employ the same "pincers" strategy with Dutch as well.

the problem with dutch are many things imo:

1, only 3 hussars compared to 9 cossacks, having cavalry last through out the game is very important.

2, no shipment will beat muksts, if the port ships muskts asap, both hussar and pikes will be stopped. skirms wont come out until quite a bit into the game.

3, the real killer, dutch's vils are some 50% more expensive than russian, 100G vs 90f, making it much harder to catch up eco wise.

4, the real killer number 2, dutch's pikes wont come out until 1 minute after cossack due to 1 minute colonial time difference(2:30 vs 3:30). after you kill the TC you can finally start raiding, but 8 pikes arent much of a raider.

5, dutch's eco only gets good after 2 banks up, if first shipment is to be 8 pikes and you still want 2 banks and skirms, hussars will have to be the 3rd shipment. either forget about hussar altogather and use skrims to raid or wait for hussars to raid, the 700w wont arrive till 4:50 and barrack wont be up till 5:10 and skirms wont be raiding until 6:00.

6, skirms cost 300% of strelets, but only has 167% the HP and 180% attack. most imporantly, still dies to 2 shots from TC.

to have dutch achieve the similar effect, one must over come these 6 problems somehow.

having these said, walker did actually beat my port with this. but that was mostly due to me not shipping muskts.


[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 06-18-2006 @ 11:36 PM).]

posted 06-18-06 08:56 PM EDT (US)     21 / 107  
lol, no offense but when I first read this strat I thought, "oh great another person trying the russian fast colonial."

However, after watching the recs I'm convinced this is awesome I actually prefer fighting germans to ports, cause they can be rushed a bit easier and out-boomed a bit better as well. I absolutley hate playing ports as russians, up until now I'll definitly try this, thanks for the inspiration :-)


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posted 06-18-06 09:56 PM EDT (US)     22 / 107  

Quote:

I actually prefer fighting germans to ports,

I dont think alot of us prefer Ports too much over Germans, but its a matter of being on the other side of the fence I think (in my case atleast) and not playing the OP civ of the week.


ESO: Enemy

Gaming rig: Athlon 3800+ X2 250x10 =2500Mhz/WD 160GB SATA/PQI 2x 1GB PC3200/PNY 7800GT/Shuttle SN25P

posted 06-19-06 03:01 PM EDT (US)     23 / 107  
111111111

lol

I tried this strat against a clanmate, factorof2, and beat him. I took too long in getting to fortress, but once I did it was over very quickly. He attacked my fwd blockhouse right as I hit fortress and popped out 10 strelets...he basically met 80+ strelets all of a sudden

rec: Linky[/url]


Join the media team!
FeaR clan
MSN: eiles3@comcast.net | ESO: Mattlight | Skype: Matt_to_da_light | Gamespy: TeHMaTFaCToR
When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded.

[This message has been edited by matt light (edited 06-19-2006 @ 03:02 PM).]

posted 06-23-06 09:38 AM EDT (US)     24 / 107  
Ultimitsu,

Are there maps where this wouldn't be effective (I assume thea Texas would be too tough)? On large maps, would you switch to another strat entirely? I imagine that some of the larger maps could pose a problem, just for the travel time from your TC to the opponent's.

Also, how do you handle maps with water vs Ports?

Thanks

posted 06-23-06 10:12 AM EDT (US)     25 / 107  

Quote:

Are there maps where this wouldn't be effective (I assume thea Texas would be too tough)? On large maps, would you switch to another strat entirely? I imagine that some of the larger maps could pose a problem, just for the travel time from your TC to the opponent's.

Texas is too hard, 2 towers + barrack is a bit too much to handle.

Large maps? i havent played large maps for a long time, imo dont worry about them as they are not in standard maps.

and to the question, i dont think it would work well on large maps, the longer travel distance, the more possible hunting/mining places the harder it is to pull this off.

Quote:

Also, how do you handle maps with water vs Ports?

imo water isnt much of a problem.

first of all, if you get him garrisoned early enough, he will have a hard time build a dock in the first place, then he has to send a card to get schooner, which he could have sent a defensive card instead. after that if you keep him garrisoned, the only way for him to water boom is ship in wood as he cant chop. most players would choose not to do that, as that gives you too much free time to mass army in his town.

however a much easier counter for the water problem is include 1 warship card, after he starts water boom kill his boats.

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