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Topic Subject: Turtle as russia
posted 06-29-06 11:12 PM EDT (US)   
Introduction: My Name is Frstyle77 I am a major so i do not suck nor am I uber good. But I love the Russian Civ (THE UNDERDOGS) I saw all the HC cards of Russia and I Find that Russia has a card that can Construct Blockhouses(Frontier defenses) so i asked my self maybe they can be great turtlers?

Ok I haven't exactly done this yet but I've been thinking about this a WHOLE lot.

Required Cards
Team barrack hitpoints
Unicorne Mortars
2 Frontier Defenses
4 Frountier Defenses
700 Resource cards
1000 Resource card
Improved Buildings
300 wood
Advance Arsenal
Blockhouse Cannon
Heavy Fortifications.
13 strellets
Factory
Heavy Cannons
Tsar Cannons
2 Falcs in 3rd age
(I guess this is a deck)!

NOW REMEMBER! This Strat is just in mind I havent really tried it (yet) But I will now start using this strat.
This buildorder is just a thought of the mind from what it has experienced.
OK here goes nothin..

Discovery Age
-Send all the settlers to gather food crates.
-Once you have 270 food que a settler batch up. While you qued a settler up Via hotkeys (TV!) you just set up a waypoint for your settlers to herd some huntables. Last settler the rest of the crates. Once done send villy to hunting.
-All created Villies will be sent to hunting. Wood should be arriving soon. Send 3 Settlers to collect it(Explorer should be right next to a TP right now if theres none save the wood up for a block house.
-Advance with 17 Villies go with the quarter master (should advance the minute your last batch comes out.)

Transition
-Put all villies to wood to get enough for another 350 wood then make 2 vills make a blockhouse(try to get it near a mine and your tc.)Put all of them on hunts after.After your 2 Villy are done with the block house get them to make a market. Then send them to hunts.
- By now You should have 2 shipments waiting if you went with the tradepost and if u went with the block house then your have 1 left. IF you have 2 shipments send a shipment and get improve buildings. IF you have one then dont send anything.
Colonial Age
-Now your going for an FF if your dont think they are rushing and if they are go ahead and turtle in Colonial.

IF STAYING IN COLONIAL
Now you could either have had 1 tp and a blockhouse or 2 blockhouse and you should always have a market. But theyre practically the same with the tp you get your protection with those extra shipments and with the block house you get extra cover!
-Collect 400 wood and make 4 houses
-Divide you villegers into 12 on food and 5 on wood.All future Villy goes directly too gold.
-always keep making Villegers even before military. When you get your next shipment u can go different ways if you went with the one tp, send in 13 strells(Since your blockhouse has Improve buildings!) if you have 2 blockhouses send in your late Improve buildings. Everytime you have 250 make a block house stop at 3 blockhouses(should be close enough so it can cover eachother and your tc.)Once you have 3 blockhouses make houses with the wood if your about to get housed if not save it up for mills(if no more hunting) or Hunting upgrades in the market(if many huntables ALWAYS HERD). You should also make one batch of strells if resource permits
strells/blockhouse(s)/tc should repel rush!
-If your losing the battle and you got a shipment go ahead and ship in 700 food or wood for strell production ONLY! also you should have gold acummulating use it to buy food or wood!
-Now if you have enough gold and food advance if you dont go ahead and send 700 gold(if you can) and buy the food or get enough gold to advance.
-Advance with the cossack guy if you sent in the 13 strells and advance with the strell guy if you went with the late improve buildings.

IF YOU DECIDE TO FF
Its the same no matter what you try to get about 1200 food and you try to get 300 gold/or 200 gold if you had 100 gold as starting. Then send in 700 gold and advance.
-Collect wood make 4 houses
-Make one batch on villy
-send in 700 gold
- put like half and half on food and gold the last batch goes to food or gold. Once you have 200/300 gold put all villies on food and wait for 700 gold you should have enough for advancing go with the strells cuz youll need defense.

Transition
- If you chose to FF put about 1/3 of your villies on wood.
- you should have a lot on gold if you stayed in colonial if so put about 10 of them to wood then once they have 400 wood send them to make a mill!
- all future villies goes to gold!.

Fortress
-Now if You FF you try to get military shipment first which you should only have one 2 cannons then resume on this strat!
-Now as usual dont stop making villies always have a batch of villies before you make some military!
-When you have the shipment you have 2 choices either send 1000 wood for a tc or blockhouse canons so u can make some Falcs.
-So now you have 3 blockhouses and an economy better than you opponents (Sometimes) You should also have tons of resource flowing I suggest since you have more wood and gold compared to food to upgrade all of your units if you can.
-Somewhere by now you should have way too much wood correct? Well then its time to make some mills (if you havent already) and you can either make some block houses to protect a mine or make plantations its your choice! Also i suggest making mills first!
-Make an army about 2/5 strells 2/5 either Halbs or Muskets(more food means muskets and more gold means halbs) and 1/5 your shipped in falconets if they die make 2 more always have just at least 2 falcs if you can make em.!
-If you have enough resource Advance! if you dont then stay and wait for a shipment to send either 1000 food or gold to enable you on advancing!.

Transition
-mostly research techs!(Mill techs) and (Plantation techs)!
-try to make 2 stables or so.
-Think of what your opponent is doing! and establish map control by making one block house near some woods or mine if your still mining.

Industrial Age
-You should have like 50 villies if you have 1 tc and about 80 if u had 2 tcs(nonstop villy production u should have been making houses when you need it if you ddint know that then YOU NOOB) Research techs(duh..) And expand with block houses!
- IF your being attacked by mass infantry send in tsar cannon and if thers still pressure send in heavy cannon when you can.
- IF your safe and you got map control Send in fortrified defense should make your blockhouses UBER(i think this word is german or dutch :P )
- IF you were raided badly Then send in Factory to help you economically.
-IF he attacked you and his army was crippled/destroyed THEN send in unicorne mortars and make like 2 and go own his base he will be forced to attack your mortars in which you can set up some kind of ambush and lure him or he's an idiot and DOESN't do anything just waste his base with those mortars.
- Once you have sent in your important cards send in team barracks hitpoints or Fort they should set in that your Untouchble


Im not sure if this strat has been thought of but i really like this (in my brain at least)!
Also Can you give me some things on how to make this better? I would welcome bad and good critism I dont really mind FLAMERS WELCOMED! :P also can someone tell me how i can put some recorded games up? Apreciate it thanks
~ Frstyle77

(EDIT) I now have some recorded games im trying to post

My First recorded game Very good I used the turtle agaisnt a French Hussar Harrasment. I didnt use strells it this one I changed my Villy ratio and got halbs with muskets he kinda played nooy tho but at the start about 10 hussars really scared me ( I only had strells)
http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=7147489

P.S. HEY look sephy !!!

I HAVE EDITED THIS AND ADDED IF YOU DECIDE TO GO FORTRESS AND SOME OTHER THINGS WILL SOON ADD RECORDINGS AND I MIGHT CHANGE SOME STUFF FROM WHAT I HEAR FROM OTHER PLAYERS...
thank you ~ Frstyle77


My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
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[This message has been edited by Frstyle77 (edited 06-30-2006 @ 02:09 PM).]

Replies:
posted 06-30-06 00:00 AM EDT (US)     1 / 18  
a russian Semi-FI nice! i was thinking about sometype of russian FI also caus russia can mass an age 4 army with shipments. 27 strelets,16halbs,16muskets,24strelets,2hc,2hc [need i say more] send unquie church card. go HEAVY wood and gold and upgrade 'em to guard.

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO.
GO RUSSIA
[i want russia=OP]


Who is more foolish the fool or the fool who follows
-Obi Won Kenobi

My favorite quote from a movie.

I am the 1 person whos cuetech is higher in 1v1 than overall :O

posted 06-30-06 00:27 AM EDT (US)     2 / 18  
Its not really a semi FF or a semi FI but you choose you can semi ff or you can ff or you can FI( I DONT ADVISE IT THOUGH) you should advance to Industrial once you have at least 50 vill for russia to keep up with spamming
thanks for the post this is my first time making a well built Thread. The game with Sephy and kill inspired me to make this

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)

[This message has been edited by Frstyle77 (edited 06-30-2006 @ 00:28 AM).]

posted 06-30-06 00:39 AM EDT (US)     3 / 18  
this is a good idea, i think i'll try it against a conscript sometime. lol

Yo ppl, ottoman and french rock
posted 06-30-06 00:53 AM EDT (US)     4 / 18  
im doing it against a captain and up

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)
posted 06-30-06 00:56 AM EDT (US)     5 / 18  
I think this has been said before in relation to Russian FI's, but since it hasnt been mentioned in this post I would like to reiterate it.

Why should a russian FI? For his one factory? For Manchu/Ronin army? For Bashkir Poines?


ESO: Enemy

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posted 06-30-06 01:22 AM EDT (US)     6 / 18  
good question but I strongly advise you to read carefully as you see in my last post it clearly says one should advance with about 50 vills Also it says TURTLE 4 Russian not FI! and a reason 4 advancing 2 Ind. is cannons mortar and Heavy Fortifications. Ty 4 posting tho im now thinking of ur advice 4 Bakshir Ponnies Also on one post i say I dont advise FIng

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)
posted 06-30-06 02:49 AM EDT (US)     7 / 18  

Quote:

I think this has been said before in relation to Russian FI's, but since it hasnt been mentioned in this post I would like to reiterate it.

Why should a russian FI? For his one factory? For Manchu/Ronin army? For Bashkir Poines?

Umm, better units maybe? Merc shipments? Better unit/resource shipments? Mortars? Unicorn mortars? Heavy fortifications? Monitors?

Sorry for being so blunt but a lot of people just think that having 1 factory means that going to fortress is pointless. It may not be as good as other civs but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't go there.

[EDIT]In regards to the strat.

I strongly suggest not using blockhouse cannons. It's one of the worst cards there are. You might as well just send for 700 wood and build an art foundry or two.

Also, definitely get 3 TCs up in fortress if you plan on turtling. Town centres are incredibly strong, provide shelter for settlers from raids and also provide minutemen if you need them. Also, town centres can out range falconets, blockhouses can't. That's not to mention the booming potential of TCs.

Any turtle should also be a semi-boom otherwise your turtling will be pointless. You should aim to get 3 TCs up ASAP and enough food flow to continually produce settlers. You should be able to max out settlers within 10 minutes of getting 3 TCs up. I would also suggest light opri raiding to try and slow your opponents boom.

Russian FF turtling is a very good idea. I use it against Germans now since it's too difficult to beat their fortress military without an economic advantage.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

[This message has been edited by poita (edited 06-30-2006 @ 03:26 AM).]

posted 06-30-06 11:13 AM EDT (US)     8 / 18  
I agree I do similar things with my Russian HC.

Personally I believe the followin are important things to think about while turtling:

- 2-3 blockhouses.. they allow you to make 30 sterlets fast. If you only have a single BH you wont be able to repel much.

- Once in age III make 1-2 TCs fast. Making 9 settlers at a time has it's bonuses (That 15% faster settler build time card is really nice as Russia too, but I can never keep up with the food demand.)

- I would ALWAYS make some Opri either from cards or fort and raid with them. IMO they are Russias best bonus.


[EEX] Nullpointer
Canadian Gamer
posted 06-30-06 12:06 PM EDT (US)     9 / 18  
Poita
Im thinking that you meant industrial not fortress correct?
I've always liked block house cannons especially since i will have many blockhouses. But making 2 foundries seems to be expensive(100wood) much more flexible (Culvs). Its a trade off on speed and cheapness to adaptability ...
Also I guess i should also add that I should get 3 tc's Because being able to make 9!!! Villies at a time is UBER!
Also I think You and DD? are correct I should add opris in maybe takeout team barrack hitpoints or blockhouse cannons im still testing the foundries and blockhouses...

And also I dont think that OLD_Enemy wasn't that unhelpful for I am now likeing the idea of maybe Adding the church tech?BUT WHAT I REALLY NEED IS HOW TO POST RECORDINGS BECAUSE I HAVE SOME 4 THIS STRAT..
Also Poita would you like to play sometime (2v2) or (1v1) ????

[This message has been edited by Frstyle77 (edited 06-30-2006 @ 12:10 PM).]

posted 07-01-06 03:12 AM EDT (US)     10 / 18  

Quote:

Im thinking that you meant industrial not fortress correct?

Ummm, I meant industrial in the first 2 paragraphs but the rest was about fortress i.e. getting 3 TCs, boooming, opri raiding...

Quote:

I've always liked block house cannons especially since i will have many blockhouses. But making 2 foundries seems to be expensive(100wood) much more flexible (Culvs). Its a trade off on speed and cheapness to adaptability ...

Well I guess that's your choice, I'm not a big fan of spending cards on things I can already get but that's just me. Plus no culvs from blockhouses is rather annoying considering the card you spend on it.

After early fortress is over I always send cards that have permanent effects eg. Boyars, Advanced Arsenal, Gather Rate Cards, Unicorn mortars etc.

Quote:

Also I guess i should also add that I should get 3 tc's Because being able to make 9!!! Villies at a time is UBER!
Also I think You and DD? are correct I should add opris in maybe takeout team barrack hitpoints or blockhouse cannons im still testing the foundries and blockhouses...

Yeah I think 3 TCs is a must. Russia has a very good boom/turtle in fortress that doesn't get much attention.

Quote:

BUT WHAT I REALLY NEED IS HOW TO POST RECORDINGS BECAUSE I HAVE SOME 4 THIS STRAT..

Well I just use savefile.com for recordings. Just go there, you have to register but it's pretty quick and easy to use.

Quote:

Also Poita would you like to play sometime (2v2) or (1v1) ????

Yeah sure, just add me and I'll add you. My ESO is just poita, I'm assuming yours is Frstyle77.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

[This message has been edited by poita (edited 07-01-2006 @ 03:13 AM).]

posted 07-01-06 11:31 AM EDT (US)     11 / 18  
Poita U edited ur mistake:P and i forgot what ur mistake was :P

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)
posted 07-31-06 10:12 PM EDT (US)     12 / 18  
Nice start!!!

Just wondering at what time u go colonial cuz some otto rushes are coming very early and if ur BH isnt up yet u may have some trouble getting the turtle back on its feet.

Except that little interrogation, i think i will try it out.

I dont know who said it but opris are realy Russia's best unit!!! OPRIS RULE!!

posted 07-31-06 11:00 PM EDT (US)     13 / 18  
Well one huge bonus for going fi with the advanced church is upgrading all your age 4 troop techs for 2500 gold. thats a cost savings of around 8k resources or more. Throw in heavy fortifications to save another 3.5kish and upgrade all your bhs and fort to max and you got a decent turtle and huge tech advantage with way less resources.
posted 07-31-06 11:14 PM EDT (US)     14 / 18  
What's with the no unit cards? 13 strels and 2 falcs, that's it? Surely you want at least a cossack card?

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posted 08-01-06 01:49 PM EDT (US)     15 / 18  
Well SInce i sometimes wall Myself I just have my blockhosue shoot at Artillary I usally have 3 and My troops shoot behind walls so I tend to have just ranged units BUT u can switch blockhouse cannons with 5 cossacks since they havent really helped me much.

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)
posted 08-01-06 06:36 PM EDT (US)     16 / 18  

Quote:

That 15% faster settler build time card is really nice as Russia too, but I can never keep up with the food demand

Medicine is actually a fairly worthless card, one that teases you with little dribbles of extra productivity, but the opportunity cost outweighs it.

The math:

Russian TC produces 3vils/50s

Medicine makes vils train in 85% of the time

Russian TC+medicine produces 3vils/42.5s

VS savings per batch of vils: (7.5x3)=22.5VS

Suppose you sent medicine before making vils beyond the Discovery age (for maximum effect). You have either 14 or 17 vils and can boom to a maximum of 98 (unless you lose 2, 5, 8, etc vils along the way). You can produce either 27-28 batches of vils. Suppose, for arguments sake, you ship a covered wagon and your explorer begins building a TC the moment you reach fortress. One minute later, you'll have made 1 batch of vils, another halfway, and 3 TC's to boom with. You are undisturbed, have no breaks in vil production because of housing/food shortage, etc. In just over 6 minutes, you can boom up to the maximum number of vils. Great, right? The problem is that you only saved (28x22.5)=630VS with the card; this is slightly better than 300W but far inferior to the 700 or 1000 resource cards, and don't reach its full payoff for a minimum of 6 minutes into the game. If you lose vils to raids, the card does become more useful, but again it's only at a discount of 22.5VS per batch.

It's much, much better to send just about any card other than this instead; resource cards pay off more and faster, gathering rate cards continue to accrue "interest" throughout the game, military cards help you win right now.


Machiavelli_IUB
posted 08-02-06 08:59 PM EDT (US)     17 / 18  
Lol OPRICH FTW

My Russia Guide
How to turtle withRussia AND WIN
http://www.skwizz.com/eso/Frstyle77/83.png
^_COPY THIS SMILEY FACE AND HELP SPREAD ITS POPULARITY
THE SMILEY FACE WILL RULE ALL. This is the offspring of THE BUNNY(^_^ GRINS AT __Sephiroth__)
posted 09-05-06 10:40 PM EDT (US)     18 / 18  
I wont play without my raiders. Don't c why u wouldnt either.
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