ok well done

[This message has been edited by dArK_RidEr_UK (edited 07-15-2006 @ 07:45 PM).]

Stop flaming mate, calling people noobs wont make you friends

Can't wait Ulti

Sweet, another strategy with an acronym...
>_<

I thought the deporter was a very good strategy and i thank you for sharing it with us.
i beat a colnel(sp) the other day (i am only a captain) with this strat i killed his tc wagon and he resigned, he blammed it on the lag but it wasnt lagging for me, probably just a bad loser,
if this strat works as you say then it will be very good. 34 vills and ready to go age 3 by 7 mins is sweet.
could u plz include some recs of this in action, i would love to see this, keep up the good work.

I think that you'll have no choice but to give the author of FCUK full credit here. I see the same principles at work in this strat as in that one. (For those that are new -- Ultimitsu wrote FCUK as well.)

Thing is, if a Russian aged up that fast against me, I would know I was being rushed. I'd probably be preparing my defensive plans and gearing down on the economic investments. The bad news -- I'd be wrong. Being able to hide your move in this way is extremely powerful.

The Russian boom, with +50% vill production, is already freaky strong. This strat sounds to me like a loophole that gets you around the Russian lack of villager cards. Together with the deception this strat offers, it sounds like a powerful play. Thanks for sharing this.

[This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 07-15-2006 @ 08:02 AM).]

nice strat but does this strategy really work?

I mean you should try it on like ~20 people who are maybe 2000 cuetech and who use different civs.

If you can win like 50% at least this strat doesnt seem bad to me.

I think the key thing here is the surprise and the expectation that you will rush, since economically I think you would be better off doing a double dock schooner boom with a more conventional discovery age(later access to free wood, but more vils). Perhaps sending the 5 cossacks as your first card and 700W as your second? It would slow down your push to the second dock somewhat, but the raiding+perception of a suicidal rush could be advantageous. That would lead most reasonable people (the ones who wouldn't resign when you have 5 cossacks in their base at 3:30) to prepare a colonial defense; towers, pikes/x-bows, etc. I've done something somewhat similar on Hispaniola with Russia; there, with the extra crates, you can make 3 vils in Discovery and still have a 2:40 Colonial time. Then schooners, cossacks, 2 docks, and a defensive blockhouse in case they counterattack. Just something to think about.

i like it, will have to try it out sometime

Heh, pretty cool. Yes, I would be 100% certain of a rush and would prepare for one when I saw a 2:30-2:50 Colonial. This is further reinforced, and is more effective than with a FCUK, because Russians are expected to rush.

Hell, with that kind of economy you could utterly strangle your opponent with Oprichnicks.

Nice strat

If some people were so sure that you are going to rush in DePorter, these same people would imagine you're rushing here. Of course I think you should always have 700 Food/13 Strelets/5 Cossacks card just to make it more... obvious

And make sure the name of your deck is "DePorter"

As ports I"ll ship 2 caravels, +1 age up one and then ship 2 organs and ronins and make a few organs too, which will totally kil all of your economy by around 9 minutes, and you will not yet have your first shipment out by this time?

Also tahts 4 shipments so it will work fine.

1st one is 700 gold, 2nd is 2 caravels, 3rd is 2 organs, 4th is ronins.

And 4th ones comesin at 8 minutes, so it wont be a problem time wise.

I use ronines to kill dock/blockhouse along shore, then kill all fishing boats, then after I make a few more organs guns I go for your tc, easy and sweet

And dont say I will think you will rush, because I will be scouting the shoreline,a nd if you do get first, it makes the game even easier to win

[This message has been edited by Stophon4 (edited 07-15-2006 @ 12:14 PM).]

Quoted from Stophon4:

I want to be clairvoyant too!

Quote:

There is where adappting come into play

And this wouldn't work anyway... I mean, Russia ages up faster and has the 2nd shipment faster too. So their 2 caravels would come before yours and they can use the age up wood to make also an outpost. Or use the 2 Caravels as first card, which is really effective, as I have already showed you.

And this is the part of the thread when people start to argue what may happen in the game and how each side would do it. Wait a few more mins and ultimitsu and Mist will be flaming each other.

I love HG

rofl^^
you are probably right..

Most topics turn to a flame war between ulti and someone else usually Mist

Haha, walker is right.

Well I'm no russia expert but I think this is a good sound strat as usual by ulti, most of us non-perfect players will expect a rush. I probably would.

Of course there will always be people like stophon who will know exactly what strat you are doing and be able to counter it perfectly, as is always the case in hindsight.

You forget the importance of those wood shipments for russia xD

Quote:

Well, I doubt that stophon4 achieved 2.2k without having a knack for choosing the right play in any given situation. A player at that level is, of course, much more likely to recognize pretty much anything you do while you're doing it.

As for me, I can guarantee that I wouldn't have seen it. Until I'd read this post, I thought Russia had no good fast colonial options except for a rush. Now that I've seen how deceptive this strat is, I'll be taking Stophon's advice and scouting those shores! It's simple advice but I so rarely do it in a timely fashion. I know that the Russian econ can become a total monster if left to its own devices.

Thanks... good info in this thread.

Quote:

My point was that no-one's perfect, and he says scout the shores etc. but does that mean he would actually do it in a game situation? Maybe, but probably not, and saying that assumes your opponent would not do anything to "counter" the scouting. What seperates skill levels above 2k is not knowing what is the right thing to do in a given situation, but it is actually doing the right thing in a given situation.

2.2k doesn't mean your perfect, in fact quite the opposite - it proves that you are not perfect. In that scouting scenario, stophon says he would scout for a dock, well then if the opponent is equal to that he would kill the explorer or put the dock in a hard place to scout or something.

man ultimitsu looks awesome man,i cant wait to see what my opponents do if i ever try this on them lol, you da man

Quoted from Machiavelli_IUB:

this sounds good, i will have to test this, in fact if i can get enough eco going with 1 dock and 5 boats from 400 wood, i may even go with 13 strelets on second card, then it is actually a Deporter with single dock.

i have to work out how many vils does it take to keep constant fishing boat production.

Quoted from Machiavelli_IUB:

from my experience, its not that different, if not actually better. discovery schooner boom is somewhat slow with russian, because it takes 3 lot of vils for russian to cach up to an economy that matches other civ, which about 3 minutes into the game.

i actually made this strat before deporter, and i had it as my primary russian schooner strat, but never bothered postng it until people say thet 2:30~2:50 colonial means definite rush.

Quoted from walker:

LOL, of course!

in fact this deck looks exactly like depoert, i got rid of one of the age4 cards and added the schooner, it has 13 strelets, 5 cossack and 4 cossack.

Quoted from Ender_Ward :

So do we all!

but then we'd be like stophon4, all become the best player in the world, and all be doing that very original 14vil strelet rush.

Ok flame war is about to start, so I'm out.

But at any rate, if I see someone with schooners in their deck I scout the shorelines.

First, I'm going to ask a few questions...

1. Is this meant to be used only against Ports?

2. Wasn't the entire purpose of Deporter catching the Port off guard with a late deck choice? With Deporter, you selected your deck seconds before hitting age 2, with this, you send schooners during transition, thats very early in the game.

3. No good treasures? What do you do then?

4. Not meant to be used on Carolina/Hispaniola (if you still go by your previous logic)? That leaves very few standard maps to be used on, only Yucatan, Saguenay, Patagonia, and New England. Not to mention New England has few whales, its not the greatest map for a schooner boom.

Why would you schooner boom against a Port? He's bound to be booming himself, and once he sees your deck, he'll seal the deal with his own.

For example, Swinger's colonial schooner boom. 2 TCs, improved buildings, colonial militia. Colonial militia in itself is good enough to deter any attacks, so he can be safe, even expecting a rush. Not only that, a wall to deter cossacks doesn't cost much, only about 50-100 wood, and it's even helpful later, he can place some organs/culvs behind it (Flammifer, I hate you for that.)

Biggest reasons not to schooner boom against Ports:

1. They have 2 caravel AND 3 caravel cards. Your schooner boom goes down the drain around 8-9 minutes, he sends both cards, 5 caravels can take out a blockhouse+2 caravels+garrisoned dock with ease.

2. If that wasn't bad enough, Ports get free TCs with humongous range and auto-ship attack. With colonial militia the damage they inflict is sick, they just waste ships. So, you have basically no chance at damaging his schooner boom, while he can completely obliterate yours.

Quote:

Not true at all.

Oprichnicks lose most, if not all, effectiveness against Portuguese after 8:00-8:30 on all maps except Hispaniola and Carolina. You can't overwhelm his dragoon shipments with opris like you can with cossacks, its just not possible.

Clicking age-up at 7:00 means you have no chance of denting him at all with opris, even if you use exiled prince. Use of exiled prince means you don't have any unit backup, your opris will usually be on their own.

On Hispaniola/Carolina, where an Opri rush-FF is viable, you can hit fort around 7:00-7:30 with 17 strelets, get 20 opris in the span of about 1 minute, and simply waste age-up wagons, forts, even TCs.

Who said this was an anti port strat??? LOL

Quote:

Wow, have you been taking lessons from Mist? That was quite impressive playing in hindsight right there. You make Mist look like a noob at this...

You are what? 2200 at normal play? I think you could possibly be 2k4 or maybe even 2k5 at theory play.

What if you say, "Hey he has schooners in his deck!!!" Then you send 2 caravels only to be owned by the Deporter.

ROFL @ Mist.

This is not an anti-Port strat, as far as I can tell. Although I don't see why it couldn't work against one with a few modifications.

I think it would work really well against a Port that also tries to fish boom if you go agressive. Due to way faster Colonial, 2 Caravels as first card wouldn't let him even build a single dock and also make sure he wouldn't place the TC near the water. You can also add a Galleon so you can train troops near the shore...

Most Ports will send schooners as first card. If you don't let them get the water you have just destroied their card and their FF

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 07-15-2006 @ 09:37 PM).]