Sounds really good, I like the idea of shipping Pioneers and then using the CDB to defend...1 CDB can own a Strelet, 11 ranged 13 hand and 300 some HP, Strelet 72 HP and 8 ranged minus the 50% ranged resistance that makes it 4. I hope to try it out soon and keep those strats coming

Nice write up. Mind if I add to the Strategy guide reference?

Quote:

Missed the 8 key, you did. :P That, or you just made a strat that goes back in time. That would be OP.

[This message has been edited by Syncope (edited 07-25-2006 @ 10:11 PM).]

people making up new strategies for patches that havnt even comed out....whats next, strategies for the warchiefs expansion now?

Quote:

I meant when you click the age up to fortress button, it should be no later than 6:20. What you are aiming for is clicking it between 6:05 and 6:10. Not arriving in fortress between those times ^^.

And also, since we already know everyhing about the new patch (except for how much faster/slower spain's/germany's shipments will be respectively, stuff like that), I don't see the problem with posting strats keeping the patch in mind.

EDIT: No, I don't mind if you add it .

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 07-25-2006 @ 11:16 PM).]

Quote:

We know 95% of the changes that are taking place in 1.08. For France, we know 99% of the changes.

That said, Matt is just claiming dibs on a "strategy" that all of us even remotely interested in playing French were thinking of after we read the patch changes list.

I mean, come on ...

Step 1: Best cav + unit that kills it's very counters
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

P.S.
And forget Dragoons. How are Ruyters, War Wagons and ... *shudder* ... Cav Archers supposed to stop Cuirassiers + Skirmishers?

I think I'm going to start playing French in this new patch. With the added 100 food, they will be faaaaaast and that skirm + cuirassier military combo sounds pretty hard to beat.

Ah my mistake. Now I understand.

Nice strat. Skirms beat anti-cav and heavy infantry, cuirs beat heavy and light infantry, anti-cavs, and artillary, hell they own everything but rods, pikes, halbs, and dopps. But I doubt we will see many more dopps running the show in 1.08. CdB is a nice way to take care of those pesky russian rushes while the new training system time should decrease the amount of jans that invade your base. All and all a good strat.

Nice strat, is this the one you used vs me?
If it is what happened to German Equalizer?

Hey... this strat might make France OP again!

seriously, pretty nice strat.

Just remember vet hussars now take an extra 2 cur attacks to kill now. I know I'm gonna build them even more

Also, since cav train time is now moderated vs hussar time based on cost, I expect curs to get a 50% increase in train time (assuming that train times were the same, I don't remember). By this logic, skirms will now train longer also (vs musket train time).

[This message has been edited by Yobbo (edited 07-26-2006 @ 06:28 AM).]

not going to work lol

skirms are only effective vs goons if the goons attack anything but melee cav.
if the goons get their multiplier vs cav, the damage output of the goons is almost double as high as that of the skirms
also you can just hit and run the cuirs with ur goons and lure them out of the range of the slow skirms

and cuirs do beat unmicroed dragoons in small numbers but in big numbers they certainly don't, not even close. why? because of their crappy pathfinding. and btw it's not that hard to hit and run on cuirs with 50 dragoons without overkill if you know how to use the attack move button
also if you have hi, the cuirs can't do anything, well they can but it's not cost effective. hi meleeing cav is the hardest counter in the game, and they will kill cuirs faster then skirms who are killing ur hi or then cuirs who are killing ur goons or skirms whatever. but i would agree if you say that you can easily outmicro the hi first with skims.

seriourly what do sup people have with cuirs they suck. play some dm vs good players and u will realise that if u use cuirs u will always spend more recources then they do.
they are only usefull for fighting if ur opponent has very few anticav, but would you waste an expensive rg upgrade for that?
but i agree they are roxxor raiders

nice strat but we gotta see how much the patch boosts the rush and how slow cuirs will train.

If cuirs will train slow as hell your strta wont be useful.

If you are rushed by a spanish player e.g. who masses pikes or whatever (he can send archaic training card in colonial or 300 wood for 2nd rax...) I dont think you have4 a big chance of winning.

He can train some hussars to kill your skim shipments and his rods/pikes will take care of the cuirs since they will train faster cos they are way cheaper.

Anyway we gotta wait for the patch..

I wonder with the speed of production for units; if a unit is "Cheaper", eg pikes, it will train faster than a Curaisser ofc.

But would 5 pikes train faster than 1 Curaisser, as they are now more expensive? if so, i suppose you'd see lots of people just microing their production as well as their economy and military by just producing 1 and then clicking has hard as they can in the last second to produce multiple units faster...

Presumably though i would imagine that each block of 1-5 will train at the same speed, based on how much a single base unit costs (eg, 1 pike will train as fast as 2, 3, 4 or 5 pikes).

ok, first off i love the strategy and there isnt much more to say about it =) haha
yah,,,um i think it is going to be NEARLY impossible to stop a skirmie/cuirassier rush...what units could beat it...? im trying to brainstorm but the LACK of units to choose from stop me from thinking - see now, i think this patch has shifted the attention from german's OP and sent the OP to french.....and...o god, nvm...haha
I GOT IT!!!
one thing to beat the skirm/cuirs rush would be the ports' dragoon/cassa rush (drags for the cuirs and cassas as a 'meatshield' for the drags) you could force the skirmies into melee mode with your cassas to let your drags deal with the curis....but thats it, thats the only thing that i think would remotely come close -
but i love the srtategy - im gonna have to try it out when the patch comes out!!

Unfortunally mass Hussars would probably beat it. Most people don't know but Hussars do beat Cuirassiers. What makes them lose is the stupid Cav AI which makes them run around "looking" for Cuirassiers while they are being affected by Area of Effect Damage.

If you test in the Editor small numbers of Hussars vs Cuirassiers and make sure the Hussars aren't really close to each other they will win. Though in larger battles all Hussars will make a really close formation making them get owned. But now with the faster train time and +29 HP they might have some chace - Pluse the 5 Hussars card which is better than the 3 Cuirassiers one.

Though most people don't know that and they will probably react with Dragoons + Artillery. Just don't try to do it on me then

Quote:

Believe me. The last thing you would want is to put Cassadores on melee when there are Curiassiers near. In fact, even Skirmishers beat Cassadors on melee...

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 07-26-2006 @ 09:42 AM).]

Only thing I can think of is pikes and cassas, yet its obvious that the french still have the upperhand here...

I dont think goons/cassa would work tho, the curisiders will go for the cassas regardless of wether they are forcing the skirms to melee or not, then skirms kill off goons, thats why I thought pikes could be better, they could meatshield much better for cassas than goons could, ofcourse if you had the resources build all 3 units and be happy

Quote:

Once he gets about 10 cuirs, there's about a snowball's chance in hell you're going to kill his cuirs.

If he plays defensively, this means its impossible to stop him from making those cuirs.

Pikes+falcs, with some skirms should do it.

Perhaps muskets+falcs too, but IMO dragoons+falcs would still be the best choice.

I think the good old Ryuter/Falc combo would work just fine. Especialy since Ryuters will train much faster than Cuirs. But then he goes skirm/culv. But then I go hussar/hussar. Then he goes goon/pike. Then I go...and so on.

Sounds like we might be much closer to perfect balance in this game.

Cuirs will probably train 50% slower than hussars, since Sheriff said in the developer chat that cav train time is based off of res cost/hussar res cost.

Quote:

Cuirs absolutely slaughter hussars, it's 309HP vs 500, and 30+area damage vs 30 damage. Sure if your hussars are all nicely spaced out in the editor they'll win, but nobody honestly does that in actual gameplay.

But i'm only paying 120f 80g for my hussars. Plus if i put them at the same upgrade level as the cuirs, they won't do as badly.

They get beaten, but not by much. It'll certainly be more effective than a lot of other options.

I can counter this strat as french by using the most popular strat a month into this game

Believe me, first week this game was out this was all I used, I even beat some players WAY above my skill doing this, but only because the FF was not yet being used by most anyone.

We will have to see what the train times are gonna look like before we know exactly how effective cuirs will be, but other than that we pretty much know everything. I just hope they don't take 1:00 to train, cuz that would be just stupid.

Hussars may beat cuirs in the editor when they are nicely spaced out and all, but nobody really does that in gameplay. And besides, who masses hussars? All you have to do do counter that is ship a pike shipment or something. Or even a 5 goon shipment. However, for them, they need alot more than goons to stop your cuir/skirm spam.

Falcs and goons or hussars and goons seems like the best way to counter cuirs/skirms. Then it favors the goons/hussars because the damage dealt by goons to cuirs is quite a bit more than the damage dealt to goons by skirms.

However, if you see they have a stable up early in fortress, you should probably just switch to goon spam. Then it is you goons/skirms/few cuirs that you made before you saw the stable vs. their goons/hussars. I think you woulod win that one.

In all scenerios, whoever has the better micro wins. Unless of course you come across some stupid arty masser or something who has like 4 falcs and nothing else ^^. Too bad nobody does that.

Quote:

But they are getting +30 HP, what meanst more 2 Hits for a Cuirassier. They are also training faster and move faster, so they will arrive in the battlefield first unless you can make constant waves of 5 Cuirassiers. If your army is made of, lets say, 10 Cuirassiers + 10 Skirmishers, 20 Hussars would murder that like no tomorrow.

Of course, we can start throwing units everywhere an adding Pikeman, Falconets, Dragoons, etc. But its a fact that Hussars > Cuirassiers + Skirmishers. Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if 15 Hussars > 10 Cuirassiers in 1.08.