In 1.07... GG 10 wws and some shipment units OR 2 falcs+ maybe some mercs as another civ will own your fort.

Any time I see a fort go up I destroy it asap and even if it IS up its still not hard to destroy.

I can think of pikes, swiss pikes, falcs wws etc lol.

In 1.08.. not sure but porlly GG aswell cos an early rush will cRuSh you and if he takes map control early on you cant build tcs/fort.

But I'm not sure about what will happen in 1.08 so dont quote me on this.

Nice strat besides that lol but cud u give us/me some times? I mean, when do you hit fortress age? etc.

~ Thanks ~

FYI I had to face all the stuff you listed (besides mercs because he had no coin from box in) Falcs were easy kill for my BR's, skirms + jaegers killed all his WW, and Xbows > WW anyways.

Swiss pikes would of died to the LI army also, trust me, he sent alot of stuff at me, my fort got really week, but outpost + fort + small army can take it.

Don't assume it's bad until you think about that hm, well, maybe I have a army also.... duh

BTW it's a counter FF strat, sorry if I didn't list it as that.

The fort will not be taken down because it will be up before the other guy has anything to stop it.

My time was most likely around 6ish 7, I didn't clock it so "don't quote me on this"

[This message has been edited by Ossian (edited 07-28-2006 @ 05:01 PM).]

quartermaster > governor
scout/marksman > exiled prince

the two TP's from Qmaster is a tremendous boost for a french FF.

send the fort with age up troops, preferably with marksman for pikes. having a fort be build right next to your enemy without any cover is a really bad idea.

ship 1000 wood for TC's instead of chopping it.

use 4cdb instead of 700 coin. you can still hit age 3 by like 8:00; maybe a little sooner.

Ok if you don't even read the point of the strat whats the point???

I know how to FF but I'm trying something new to give complete map control.

Everyone sticks with "what works" but what about testing for new things.

The fort can hold out until you send in a extra shipment, or even better, BUILD from the fort....

The point of getting the fort up fast is to catch him before he ages like I listed twice before...

Post some replays and the time for stuff please
Anyway, will this strat work for they next patch?

I'll try and get some recs, and from what I gather it should work 1.08 since you are using exiled prince.

Remember, it's counter FF so I don't know how useful it will be since FF will be very little used.

This is my last post until saturday night, so stop bashing the strat and think about how it could work please?

[This message has been edited by Ossian (edited 07-28-2006 @ 05:20 PM).]

It's this type of quick map control that is always done to me when I play Portuguese. I always lose those games so I think your strat has merits, especially against Ports with their limited siege.

I just tried it out and got a 6:10 fortress time, but only had half of a shipment upon arriving. If you build a tp during age up i think you could remedy this. Then you can have your fort up earlier than 7:45 and another TC up before 8:00. As long as you place your fort well and make proper counters with it you should be fine. If you queue 5 skirms from the fort they will come out at 8:00, the same time as a "normal" FF French FF will age up with their skirms.

However, if you are playing against an aggressive civ like Spain it might be smarter to place your fort defensively securing resources by your first TC and building your second TC under its cover as well. Then you have a good boom set up as well as defenses that will keep you safe until any seige mercs or canons come out. By then you should have either culvs or LI to counter.

I like it. Reminds me of Walker's Ottoman Deporter .

hehe yeah it seem ppl didnt read the strat btu still comment it or just have no logic if the french age 30 sec before you to fortress you'll be in the middle btw so you want have any men to counter fort except mm's or vills + your prob aging with 6 skirms so even if you send them you wont destroy the fort

yeah i think you should difitively get tp's and if your on like great plains you can take lakota or comanche by doing a native ff dont know if it exist but you can take them to raid and just destroy his eco if you do it right u should kill 5 or 6 vills in the first suprise raiding

i think this strat may work ill try it out just need to get my french hc lvl a bit higher

Ossian has tried this strat vs me. I can tell you that it works pretty well. Its unexpected and half way through aging to fortresss...you see his fort going up and when you see this you might not even have a rax up. Wen I played with him, I did have rax, I made about 10 pikes but too late, his cuirs and skirms came and I couldnt destroy the fort.

Those people bashin his strat doesnt know how effectivly it actually works when taken on suprise. He takes your map control and leaves you with little mines or hunts.

Well, the problem is that he doesnt have that many shipments because he has no tps.

He also spent a shipment on a fort.

A fort isnt really strong not even if its built.

It would be nice if you could give us some times like when you hit fortress age but I really doubt that would work vs a professional 1.07 German lameage....

Making a fort early on might seem good but actually it isnt that good at all.

If I see your fort going up as Germans and hit fortress like @8:00 I ship 3 WWs ASAP which take care of the cuirs (which need some time to arrive because you have no tps and you already spent a shipment on a fort) and start spamming WWs.
Because I have 1-3 tps my next shipment will come ASAP (5 dopps, good for siege) and I will attack your fort about @ the 9 mins mark with 6 skirms from aging, ~8 uhlans, 8 wws and 5 dopps.

Its not even funny how fast wws take out a fort, believe me...

As spanish I would send 8 pikes after aging with the 8 pikes poli and ship 2 falcs as soon as I hit age3.

Next shipment would be swiss pikes/highlanders or Lancers if you mass skirms.

16 pikes can defend well vs 3 cuirs and 2 falcs should take care of 6 skirms.

When my swiss pikes arrive I prolly have still like ~8 pikes and 1 falc and 12 swiss pikes are enough to take down your fort.

Anyway, you should try this strat vs me on ESO.
I'll add you and we can play unrated if you want.

God, I feel sorry for Ossian. I mean, what can you do when killa comes in and says "I spam this and that at you and I win". No, a fort isn't strong when it's not defended as you seem to assume it's not, but if you're defending it well then it's very hard to take down without mortars. You say WW>cuirs and uhlans > skirms, jaegers but in the end it's all down to micro and what happens in game. 10 war wagons by 10 minutes isn't gonna take down a fort, and anything later is hardly "early".

okay u want to play that game killa i get fort up i spam 5 skirms and 5 dragons and i wont send 3 cuirs ill just send 2 canons now i got this army + a fort you die and wasted shipement + most of the time germans dont have 5 dopples so stop flaming for nor reason try the strat before saying anything
ppl have done this counter ff vs me but not being french and it works pretty damn good so i have the right to comment his strat but you dont since if someone would of done that you wouldnt been flaming

You call that flaming? wtf.. Am I not allowed to say something against a new strategy?
Who are you that you come here and actually flame ME?

If Ossian calls this flaming he can ask me to stop arguing in his thread and I will leave, but who are YOU that you tell me that I flame and what I have to do and what I'm not allowed to do...

Back to topic:

I just argue that on a competive level this strat wont work all that well.

It was tried on me before and it failed like 80% or more of the time. (only better players [cuetech/pr] did it on me with succes)

I also asked for a game with Ossian so I wanted/want him to try it on me to see if it works vs a German lameage in 1.07.

A civ it would probably work pretty well against is the ports since they get no real siege in age3.

But they get a tc in age2 which they can use to get map control BEFORE your fort can come.

And if they FI it's GG I would say.

About our game Ossian: I will try to catch you on ESO between 2 and like 6 pm GMT.
We can play the games unrated cos I dont really think it would be fair otheriwse. ( too big difference in rating sorry)

I don't think a game between you two would prove anything.

a) You're playing germany, and you'll be spamming war wagons. It's no surprise that any french strategy would lose to that.
b) You're a hundred or so cuetech points above him.

Most of the value in the strategy (I think) was due to its very surprising nature, and that would cease to be a factor if a game were arranged where it was tested.

Why are you even comparing a non-german strategy to an OP strategy. So every british, spanish, french, dutch, ottoman, and russian strategy shouldnt be used because german laming beats it? Ok then, I'll just start up my german HC because clearly I'm stupid if I want to play something else...

Lol I could also use my Spanish or my Russia to play vs this..

And because of the cuetech difference it wouldnt mean much, of course, but I could see if I have a hard time beating it or not.

Also, this strat is supposed to be an anti FF strat but like 20% of all FFs are German ones in 1.07.

So you say no big surprise if the FFF loses vs the majorty of FF?

I say that a spanish FF would own that pretty well, too.

16 pikes and 2 falcs @8:00 or 16 pikes/2 falcs/12 swiss pikes @ 9:00 isnt nice too.

Pikes/swiss pikes take down a fort /cuirs pretty well and the falcs should take care of all LI if microed properly.

Another thing I can think of is a church tec guard FF as spanish with 8 pikes/12 guard halbs/2 falcs @ 8:00.

Vs a rush I dont think this uis a very viable strat since the rushing troops destroy the forward tower and you cant place the fort in a good position too.

Anyway, again about the cuetech difference thing:

I can imagine that on the level around the low 2k or lower this strat MIGHT work vs equally skilled people but above that I dont think this would work well vs equally skiklled players.
This is nowhere near flaming, sorry if it seems so.

^I second Matt's highly cultured and refined sarcasm.

i think this will definatly work well,

i have just started using the french today, i have a level 6 city.

in my last game i played a brit, i ffed and took complete map control, when you have that its very hard for them to break out and you are controlling all their rescources

Quote:

Look, it's all down to who had the better micro at the time. Ossian said himself that he gets BR, and we know how badly they own falcs. Then you have age up skirms, shipped skirms and built skirms for the pikes. But of course, then you'll say that you'll defend the falcs with the pikes and kill skirms with falcs. It just goes round in circles... do you see what I mean?

Ignore what he said about age up troops ^^. None come with exiled prince.

WW Spam > FFF but WW Spam owns alot of strats and plus its OP so no point of comparing or even argueing.

hehe yeah sorry killa was in bad mood when i posted i wrote it wrong btw the strat does need tp's i just saw a game earlier glouk_the_boss basicly does this strat except he ages with 2 tp's a market with the wood and food upgrade he sends in 3 vills then 4 vills or maybe he ages right after dont remember but i think he send 700 gold but doesnt use exile prince he uses the 4 hussars politician he got from age up to raid and distracts the opponents army so they cant see the fort

he gets it up and makes dragons from fort the other player sees fort up attacks it but as glouk has a few dragoons + 3 hussars left + fort +tp's = shipement he counters the opponents attack btw when he attacked he had swiss pikes so i think its worth aging later but having two tp's + some market upgrades and a age up army to counter the ff and have a nice map control and since you have control of some of the land make cuirs and raid like crazy but dont use it to attack him if he spams dragons

Quote:

Apparently you aren't aware of 1.08. And wtf, France will most likely get to Fortress before or at the same time as Germany, so that would make the game fair and competitive.