Uh...welll....
Why not make any villagers?

And what's wrong with banks? They can give Dutch a big early boost and plenty of exp.

well its a rush.......

Dont make vils becouse it takes off of you're age up time sure make vils after you age up but but to make vils in age one takes off of age up time....

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An early boost? they take 4 mins just to repay themselfs the idea is you have 13 pikes before anything can repay itself. I think that the 350 wood-food is better spent on pikes when you're rushing.....

Well, since Dutch settlers cost gold, you won't be slowing your age up time by making vills with starting gold.

Just because you're rushing, you shouldn't completely kill your economy, and banks do help still in a rush, you can't expect to win without an economy.

Generally only build banks once you've settled for a bit in colonial and have plenty of spare resources. Banks are good but Dutch produce settlers the same speed as any other civ so it's not like they'll be falling behind.

Read Killer. He said use all of your starting gold to buy food at the market. Risky, but it does get you into colonial faster.

So you age up at around 2:00 right? How many pikes can you get by 5:30?

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Last test exactly 21 pikes on hispaniola by 5:30
with more on the way

21 pike by 5:30 isn't much for a crate heavy map. I have some advice for this: Don't make vils in colonial. You will have way more pike than that if you can save 3 and a half minutes worth of vil cost.

Think of it this way: if you weren't making vils for the first 2 min of the game, you aren't going to catch up to your enemy's eco ever, so don't even try. Just go for the fast kill.

Oh and since you have a market already, don't chop wood, buy it instead.

hummmmm
maby you should try it jaafit
its not hard just go a round 1 vs 1 with queen elizabeth and set the map
you might have better luck
in fact i insist you try

I've been trying this out with some of my clanmates. Results were pretty promising actually. Mind if I add more detail to the BO?

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Must've missed that ><''
I probably shouldn't post when it's late :/

Anyways, it actually sounds interesting...although I've never been a fan of the do or die rushes, I might have to try it sometime.

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Ok I tried it.

I made zero vils throughout and used the market to buy wood. I was able to get 30 pikes by 5:30. Seems pretty good to me.

yeah it works pretty well. I did this earlier today and won, I lost my first round of pikes but then 5 skirms took off the last 100hp or so. From then I just turtled and hoped the guy didnt attack

I won in the end, after 45minutes of fighting :s

I've been tinkering around with this strat a little bit offline and it does appear to have some potential. Now all I need to do is tweak my non-crate heavy rushing.

How many pikes do you have by 5:05? I ask because a Russian usually hits age 2 then and pikes make short work of a blockhouse. Could work nicely.

And if it fails, your enemy will have ~ 3 times as many villager so it better work!

seems like a good strat, unfortunate that itll only work on a crate-heavy map

if i saw my opponent age up that early though id age up immediately and have outposts and minutemen ready, houses right next to tc, all vils as close as possible. itd be tough to kill that completely, and if you dont ull get dominated within 3 or 4 minutes...

Its a good rush, but I don't understand banks?

Its useless to build 99 fishing boats cause all the food would run out and you have maybe like 20 fishing boats on coin or something.

Banks are the only thing Dutch are useful for. I dunno how to check cuetch can someone check. Banks are the best thing for Dutch. 700 resources can produce like 1000 coin in a game. Thats per bank. I think your stupid for not using banks. Maybe the dumbest Dutch player in the world to not use banks.

The rush is good, but not you. I called rushes like your kamikaze rushes. They hurt you, but hurt the enemy even more. (Hurting economy and boosting military.) There good, but i dunno how you survived without banks.

A bank is worth 4 unupgrated vils. They are overpriced and are overrated, don't make them until *late* age 3 or in industrial.

I am not a bad dutch player, I love them and they are my favorite civ. However i can't use them, they are just unplayable now.
This was an attempt to make the secret dutch strategy i failed but got this instead. And (with a little help from jaafit) I found a way to get 30 pikes at 5:30 . If thats not good enough for you then go mass long bows.

Interesting strat...I'll have to play around with it. I might start using it on hispanola, where my gren rush doesn't work as well. It seems like an Otto would eat this alive, though, with Jans and/or Abus. Also, probably Russians would with Strelets, whereas grens can pwn strelets, if they forget to use spread formation. However, this might be earlier enough to stop the strelets from ever being made, though, so I'll have to check it out. If you haven't already tried, you might want to look at trying a gren rush. I think Jaafit posted a BO for a pretty good one a few months ago. Another thing about the pike rush, though, is that you're really, really dead if the enemy makes it to age 3, whereas age2 grens w/pike and hussar back-up can often still beat an early age 3 player (except maybe port.)

Genkai0, I'm an ok Dutch player and I usually only make banks if the game goes to age 3 (which I try to make sure it doesn't.) I never make a bank when I'm trying to rush, unless my initial fails. My usual rush is not as suicidal as this one, though. (If the rush fails, that is.) Also, must be a short game if you only get 1,000 gold from a bank...that would make it pretty much worthless, if you count the res cost, villager-seconds to build, and wait time. Banks are alright age 3+, though, or if you boom from the beginning, but not in an all-out rush, like this one. The best thing about them is that they're not easy to raid like vills, imo.

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If he makes it to age 3 before 5:30 without the prince he deserves to win.

You should keep you're explorer/envoy looking at his city constantly to look for barracks/towers that are being built.

I doubt this will work. On maps like Hispaniola your enemy will have a good colonial time as well. Militias+TC fire will stop your first wave of pikes easyly and if the enemy plays 8 X-bows once in colonial =>> gg no re

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There are no "waves" in this strat. It's one, do or die attack With 30 pikes at 5:30.

for TC fire, you can put your pikes in cover mode, or at least the one thats getting shot at, and with minutemen....its not really hard to get rid of them at all

[This message has been edited by The Freshmaker (edited 08-12-2006 @ 10:17 PM).]

Didn't they change the cover mode? I thought it no longer gives bonus defense, it just makes the units stand still and defend an area.

If you do one wave at 5:30 your enemy will have his 8 x-bows card, a Rax plus 5-10 units. Together with TC and minuteman this can stop your rush.
Well, maybe he did not see your rax then this might work =) However, all he needs to do is to scout in a proper way.