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Topic Subject: The British Fast Fortress Smash v3.0
posted 08-20-06 09:58 PM EDT (US)   
The time has come! You may all remember a certain Portuguesse Millers Strat that popped up on this forum a while back. Well, this is nothing like it ! In fact, it doesnt even use mills!

Ok, enough will that then ^_^. I have been struggling to find a decent time to present this, seeing as when 1.08 was first released every..single...person rushed. So an anti-FF strat wasnt exactly feasable. Now, however, with the rise of Spain as a top tier civ, I now have reason to divulge the....

British Fast Fortress Smash v3.0

By now most of you know the concept of this strat. Get a crapload of canons out ASAP and provide a decent meatshield. AKA: Black Watch.

In previous versions, I have managed to produce no less than 8 BW and 5 falconents by 9:30. The updated for 1.08 version knocks as much as 20 seconds off this time (depending on if there are sheep/cows/llamas on the map), giving an incredible 8 BW and 5 falconets in as little as 9:10! It also adds another twist: the aggressive FF smash. We'll get to that. But for now....

The Build Order

We spend the majority of our time here in discovery age. The goal here is to reach 24 vills and 800 food no later than 4:30. Here's how to do it:

Discovery Age

-3 starting vills to food crates, other three go to hunts.
-Once you have collected 100 food, queue a vill and send two crate collectors to hunts. Set the TC waypoint to the nearest straggler tree.
-After collecting all food and wood crates, build a manor house. Set the waypoint to wood aswell. If you started with 300 wood, build another manor in addition to the first.
-Keeping 5 vills on food at all times, continue to create villagers, putting them all on wood.
-First card is Virginia Company
-As soon as it arrives, build as many houses as you can afford. Have all the waypoints go to wood. Every time you get another 88 wood, build another house.
-Once you have created 6 houses (70 population total) move the TC waypoint to food. Place all but 7-8 vills on food, keeping the rest on wood.
-Save your second shipment!
-After you have collected wood for and built two more houses (waypoints going to food), move all vills to food.
-No later than 4:30, you should have collected the 800 food necessary for colonial. Kill a herdable if you have to, but you need to hit that button as soon as possible.

Age to colonial no later than 4:30 (prefferably 4:20) with 24 vills total and 90 population spaces. Use the Philosipher Prince (500 food) politician.

Transition: Discovery to Colonial

Immediately after clicking age up to Colonial, switch 15 vills to gold, keeping 9 on food. This will allow you to obtain the necessary resources for fortress by 6:15 if you didnt get any treasures. 6:05 if you found 150 resources worth.

Colonial Age

-Dont queue any vills
-Task 5-6 vills from a resource you already have enough of to reach fortress to collect the aging food. Remember that the crates will arrive wherever you set the TC waypoint to, so keep that in mind.
-Ship 700 wood and Glorious Revolution.
-You should have the necessary reosources for fortress age by 6:15 at the latest. Click up ASAP.

You are now on your way to fortress age with 24 vills with 700 wood on the way and will arrive by 8:05. Use the Admiral of the Ocean Sea (400 wood + Caravel) politician.

Transition: Colonial to Fortress

-As soon as you click the age up button, move 15 vills to food and task the rest to gold. It is best if you use a second gold mine as quick as possible so you don't run out at an odd moment such as stalling at 100 wood and 396 gold when you try to crank out that last falc.
-Collect food from all herdables you may have found at this time. If you have 500+ food in herdables, (ie. Texas, pampas, seguenay) you will only need 7-8 vills on food for the transition to fortress in order to collect the 1000 food for Black Watch.
-Immediately when the 700 wood arrives task 3-4 vills to it. Build a church with 250 of it as soon as it comes in.

Now here is where you make a deciscion...

Do I want to go on the offense? Or shall I defend against my opponent's assault? I will give advice on how to choose later in the guide.

Let's go with defense for now.

-Build a Trade Post with your scout with another 250 wood out of the 700. You now have 200 wood left.
-Once you have collected the necessary 1000 food for Black Watch, shift all but 6 vills to gold. Allocate those 6 remaining to 4 on food and 2 on wood.
-You should now have a shipment ready or 95% complete. Once the trade cart comes around a single time that shipment will be available.

Hit fortress age with 18 vills on gold, 4 on food, and 2 on wood

Fortress Age

-You are finally here! After 8 minutes of intense vill micro (believe me, its pretty rediculous), you now get to reap the benefits.
-Call the Black Watch ASAP from the church. Now that they have arrived, you can start keeping constant vill production again.
-Ship 2 Falconets
-Collect the 400 wood from age up with 3-4 vills and task the caravel (if the map has fish) to the nearest whale.
-Build an artillery foundry with the 400 age up wood. You now have at least 300 wood still in your stockpile (100 remaining from age up, 200 left over from 700 wood card)
-Queue as many falcs as you can with the gold you have. As soon as you reach 3, move 3 gold vills to wood so that you have a 4-5-15 vill allocation.
-All 5 Falconets and the 8 Black Watch highlanders must be on the field no later than 9:30. Anywhere between 9:10-9:20 is an excellent time.
-Make 2 more falconets when the resources come in.
-Ship 10 Longbows
-You now have 7 Falconets, 8 Black Watch, and 10 Longbows. All before 11:00 (and as soon as 10:30 ^^)

Now here is where the real kicker comes in. You still get the effects of Virginia Company! Once you have created the aforementioned army, shift 5-6 gold vills to wood. This will allow you a heavy boom with manors and still bring in enough gold for 9 highlanders by the time your next shipment arrives. At which time, ship the highlanders and move all but 3 gold vills to food and wood. As soon as you get 200 wood, build a rax and research veteran longbows. You now have an excellent economy and can spam longbows all day long. It never hurts to ship 8 settlers in either .


Now...remember what I said earlier about an aggressive version? Well here it is:

Instead of building a Trade Post with your 700 wood, send 4 vills forward to build a tower instead. Set the waypoint to that tower and follow the defensive build order for fortress. But instead of using this army for defensive purposes, you can now unleash your mighty powers on your opponent's own base! You will receive shipments a tad slower than had you built a trade post, but this is more than made up for by the walking time. It takes forever to get falcs all the way to your opponent's base from your own TC. Don't forget to build the foundry forward too ^_^.


So, there you have it! The British Fast Fortress Smash version 3.0 made for patch 1.08. Now, I remember something about advice on when to be aggressive or defensive....

Ah yes...

Scenerios and Which Route to Take in Them

There are two factors that contribute most to which version you wish to take: what civ your opponent is, and what strategy you have deduced he is using. It is not difficult to figure out the former, however, the latter takes some skill in scouting. Here are a few scenerios for you (all of them are different types of Fast Fortresses, seeing as that is the strat which this one is designed to defeat):

Spain: Aggressive Fast Fortress

Well, this is pretty much the only FF that Spain does. The defensive version is a much better choice here, as your forces will arrive in sync with your opponent's. Your Black Watch will take out his age up hussars/pikes and will handle the lancers he is no doubt to send as his first shipment. All other shipments he sends will be piece meal for your massive falconet squad, including his mercs. Watch out for Stradiots though, as your highlanders will not be able to prevent them from killing a few falcs. I suggest shipping either 9 muskets or 10 pikes against spain instead of 10 longbows to prevent the odd chance of stradiot ownage...

Portugal: Boom/Defensive FF

This is the only strat portugal can do really. An aggressive FF that takes down their 3rd TC (and their second most likely. Goons + Cassas gets OWNED by falcs + BW) will cripple them into an easy victory. Aggressive FF all the way!

Germany

I haven't played against many germans this patch, and I am not quite sure as to how they work nowadays. Any input would be highly appreciated.

France: Far too many FF's >_<

You will have to scout alot in this case. If you find a church go defensive. A stable is trouble: cuirs will go right past your highlanders and into your falcs. I would lean toward aggressive in this case. However, I advise sending in 10 pikes or 9 muskets instead of 2 falcs as the first shipment. That way you can take out the combination of skirms and cuirs or hussars or whatever with some decent micro, as well as being able to protect your artillery easily with your meatshield.


Bah, I've run out of time. I'll just leave with this and add the rest later.

Recorded Game

Enjoy!

__Sephiroth__

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 08-21-2006 @ 09:37 AM).]

Replies:
posted 08-20-06 10:37 PM EDT (US)     1 / 18  
i love sephy!!!

but i cant figure out if i should refrigieration ro substainable agriculture first, i mean, ive got like 30 mills, but should i still hunt a little? whats PMS sehpy???

posted 08-21-06 08:29 AM EDT (US)     2 / 18  
Dang, that rawxorz Speh, I can't wait to try it! Yea... can you be on any moment now? So I can 1v1 you :P

BTW! Good job, you didn't write ''politition'' but:

Quote:

Scenerios and Which Route to Take in Them

Woot it doesn't show but you opened the bolding and ended with italics :P

[This message has been edited by George_III (edited 08-21-2006 @ 08:46 AM).]

posted 08-21-06 02:43 PM EDT (US)     3 / 18  
I uploaded the rec.

And yeah, i tend to do the [b][/i] thing alot >_<

posted 08-21-06 09:40 PM EDT (US)     4 / 18  
Nice work, matt.What will you do on Bayou? seminole+LB rush or FFS with seminole?

Against Port, what if you smack into mameluke+organ(+some age up cassa maybe)?

Will the agressive version work against a otto FI?

I don't see the point of 10 pike though, they only worth 800 res, unlike 9 muskets(900 res).

A common misconception is that pike are better than musket vs cav, but I did the math and found muskets are stronger:

pike anit-cav attack 8*5=40
musket.............. 13*3=39

pike hp vs melee 120/.9= 132
musket hp vs melee 150/.8=180

pike moves faster, but musket's range makes that up.

I take musket over pike after Age3.

what if Port use double merc cav shipment( 5mamelukes+6hacpells, the most weird combo ever since they both ride white horse but have reverse stats)?

The new German start seems like a 9:30 Fortress(marksman) by(Quatermaster TP) sending 3SW+9x-bow harass+Palatine(total 6Uhlans running around) housing, reserach mercantism for their XP hunger shipment, normally is 9Uhlan/5dopple-8skirm-10Land(other merc if you aren't in defence yet)-1000 wood is the normal order, how would you deal with that( followed by WW+skirm, then FI to get factories).


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 08-21-2006 @ 09:46 PM).]

posted 08-21-06 10:02 PM EDT (US)     5 / 18  
I always seminole rush on bayou. It's in my blood .

I think pikes are actually a much better anti-cav shipment than muskets. Why? Speed. Pikes have much higher speed than muskets in melee, and speed is incredibly important when guarding against enemy cavalry. The extra 49 total cav damage never hurts either. HP means very little. Why? Because the cavalry aren't attacking your meatshield, they are going straight for your artillery. You need to put out as much damage as possible as fast as possible to protect your falcs, and 10 pikes certainly do a better job than 9 muskets. This is the same principle as to why jans are such a crappy meatshield for abus guns: they have rediculous amounts of HP, but nothing else to show for it.


Portuguesse players tend to go for fast mamelukes against british players, aiming for mamelukes out between 8:00 and 8:30. You want them to try to raid you and run into your initial Black Watch so that you can get some damage in. Afterwards, ship in 10 pikes or 9 muskets and build 3 falcs locally for and attack at 9:30 with 8 BW, 3 falcs, and 10 pikes. The Black Watch and pikes will handle the mamelukes while canons will utterly destroy his cassadores. If they go for the normal goon spam + cassas, go for 10 longbows first followed by 2 falcs. Longbows beat both goons and cassas easily, so they'll be hard put to find a good counter. Culvs are the only weak point here, which is why scouting is important. If you see an artillery foundry, either destroy it or ship hussars. Culvs are evil and should be killed accordingly ^^.

There is also no way your opponent is getting 2 merc cav shipments out by 9:30 with any other army to augment them. If they do, they deserve to win :S.

If that is the case for germany, you will have to stay in colonial and longbow lame. Uhlans pose too much of a threat to your exposed miners and constant idle time in the TC will ruin you. However, longbows will tear apart any army germany can throw at you, so a pike/longbow rush would work quite well.

Thanks for the input.


posted 08-22-06 00:07 AM EDT (US)     6 / 18  
I've been waiting for v3.0. It's taken me days to get the v2.0 down and now there is a v3.0! My hat is off to you for working these strats out in detail. Guys like us without much time depend on you. Cheers, man!

Like the changes by reading. Will practice and let you know and give feedback. Keep the strats coming!

posted 08-22-06 06:08 AM EDT (US)     7 / 18  
Can we see a recording of this strategy against a player of simi;ar skill to yourself Seph?

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
posted 08-22-06 10:32 AM EDT (US)     8 / 18  

Quote:

Can we see a recording of this strategy against a player of simi;ar skill to yourself Seph?

...but no ones as good as sephy...right!?!?

posted 08-22-06 11:20 AM EDT (US)     9 / 18  
i dunno, lets ask Glorius?

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
posted 08-22-06 01:30 PM EDT (US)     10 / 18  
Lord Sephiroth cannot be beaten!! it is a proven fact, and is in the ten commandments look at number 12

12)And the Lord said unto Moses, KNOBODY CAN DEFEAT SEPHIROTH, HE IS MY RIGHT HAND MAN AND HAS UBER SUPER NATURAL POWERS!!

Refer to Rule 11 for any questions..

*lmao at his recording against a computer*


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 08-23-06 10:50 AM EDT (US)     11 / 18  

Quote:

Lord Sephiroth cannot be beaten!! it is a proven fact, and is in the ten commandments look at number 12
12)And the Lord said unto Moses, KNOBODY CAN DEFEAT SEPHIROTH, HE IS MY RIGHT HAND MAN AND HAS UBER SUPER NATURAL POWERS!!

lol

I can't wait to try out this strat because I'm probably switching back to brits.


ESO2: mista_mista
"Baby, you like shopping? Well, I like sieging town centers and raiding villagers..." -DONofCHRON
"Then theres the aztecs. With their 35 guys on the pit they can spit out vills faster than george bush can spit out troops into Iraq." -Cookiecrisp13
posted 08-23-06 03:37 PM EDT (US)     12 / 18  
[quote]Lord Sephiroth cannot be beaten!! it is a proven fact, and is in the ten commandments look at number 12
[/qoute]

Don't say this to loud. Remember that game we had Seph? Back in the days of RUSH... (when I used to be 2k (*starts to cry*))


Member of TmC
Visit us at www.tmc-clan.com
My TWC stats
posted 08-23-06 04:42 PM EDT (US)     13 / 18  
Maybe a dumb question, but what cards do you use and when?
posted 08-23-06 04:50 PM EDT (US)     14 / 18  
See if seph can do this against my Spain :P

When I pwn you seph, I expect you to post that recording here too lol, to show the weaknesses of the strat.


ESO: empirejoao3
Clan:Proud
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 08-23-06 04:50 PM EDT (US)     15 / 18  
All the cards sent are bolded within the Build Order section of the article.

And most strats don't work so well when they are expected....

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 08-23-2006 @ 04:51 PM).]

posted 08-23-06 04:55 PM EDT (US)     16 / 18  
Tomorrow, I challenge you to a game! 11:00 EST? Is that good seph? You do this, I'll be Spain...k?

ESO: empirejoao3
Clan:Proud
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 08-23-06 06:05 PM EDT (US)     17 / 18  
saru youll have the upper hand knowing hsi strat...and the better civ.
posted 08-23-06 08:03 PM EDT (US)     18 / 18  
*chuckles* ha ha ha thats our saru. only playing games he knows he can win..

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » The British Fast Fortress Smash v3.0
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