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Topic Subject: The BAM strategy
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posted 02-08-07 08:40 AM EDT (US)   
British Assault Muskteers

England expects that everyman will do his duty
-Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, K.B


Introduction:

Before I say anything else, thanks to sahinthefalcon for pointing out that this is not a

Quote:

THE ULTIMATE BAM0-BAM-BAM EVERYONE DEAD STRATEGY?

so don't put as much hope as you would with a uber OP iro/dutch FF or Otto IOR rush as people with IQ<6 do.(hopefully you understand that it is hard to come up with a competitive brit strategy while the civil is plain as such.

The British civilization was well known for its powerful booming capacities. But how to utilize the uber manor boom into a rush was always a big problem, due to the fact that boom and rush was always a paradox. So Brit player was forced to either go for a manor boom and then muster military, or go straight for a rush while being housed at 30/40 pop and then ship 700 wood to boom.

But Here is my solution: The way to Rush while producing manor house and utilize resource shipment for a highly sustainable DOUBLE barrack musketeer rush that require very low HC level to be used effctivly, and it also grows as you add high level HC card into the equation.

Before I get the BO started, here is my normal timing with this strategy:

4:30-4:45, depends on how many manor house I built (which changes differently with regard to strating crates) with 17 Villagers or 14 Villager with wood trickle card(lv 25).

11 60 secs after reaching colonial, usually 5:40

Villager count : 17 before age-up, 21 during first assault(16 musketeer, at 6:30 the latest), 35 at 10:00 mark(before shiping 5 villagers)

Here is the list of nessary cards:

3 Villager

or its alernative

Distributivism(wood trickle)

6 Musketeers

700 Wood

700 Food

For players with HC lv < 10 ( I started a HC with this strategy, so I know the nessary procedures), the you need to subsitute in 2 villager, 600 wood and 600 food in to make this strategy running(25+ sec slower), but it still works at that level, and all card except 600 wood come from the starter deck, if you want to use this strategy, aim at 600 wood for your lv 2 card.

Why Musketeers: Because Ranged Heavy Infantry are one of the most vestaile unit in colonial and they only lose to one other type of unit ( range infantry , i.e skirmisher/cetans), they have powerful range attack as well as a decent melee damage and armor. They are also one of the key unit that brits need to stick on after the longbow nerf. Their resource cost also makes it easy to add hussar support after you eco had grown to a large enough scale without switching villagers.

Don't use this start against? Dutch/Russia(if they age quick enough)/Iros/Sioux/Ottos who are smart enough to train Abus Guns

On to the BO:

Discovery:

1. All villager on food crate till you hit 100 food and queue a viallger, then 2 villager got to hunt, 2 villager stay on food crate, 2 villager on wood crate( each villager on a different wood crate). Exploer go for treasure hunt (go for resources, this start run smoothly without any need of extra XPs)

2. After food crate had exhausted, 2 crate villager go to hunt (preferably another herd).

3. Build a manor as soon as you reach 135 wood, if you have 300 wood, built another one. If you start on Hispaniola with 400 wood, go chop 5 wood and build 3. On Carolina build 4

4. All new villager go to food, all manor builder and spam villager go to food as well. Herd is essencial for quick aging.

5. Try to locate a resource field close to opponent base with your exploer, preferably 1 coin mine, 1 herd & some trees.

6. If you built 1/2 manor house, your shipment normally comes in between 1:35-1:45 if you were treasure hunting, chose your deck and ship 3 villager/wood trickle ASAP.

7. After reaching 17(or 14 with wood trickle) villager, age-up when you have 800 food with the Governor(he is essencial)

During Transition:

1. Move 8(5 with wood trickle) villager to wood, 2 villager forward(to the forward location).

2. Queue 2 villager, set TC military way point to forward base.

3. After reaching 135 wood, build a manor house and way point it to coin, also shift click the builder to coin.


Colonial Age(4:35-4:45)

1. Ship 6 Musketeer ASAP and build a barracks with your 2 forward villager

2. Here is where the Governor's age-up feed back kicks-in : Musketeer requires large amount of food, and herds are remote and easy to raid. Use the outpost wagon from the Governor's disposal to secure your forward base and its hunts, and the 200 coin from his wallet also pays for 8 musketeers(you can have more villager on wood/food during age-up)

3. Move 2 wood villager(3 with wood trickle) to collect the coin crate, and then move them to coin mine

4. Build another manor house, pop 26(21 vil pop total, 20 at work)(-3 with wood trickle)/30(40) at the moment. Villager distribution : 965

5. Control group your barrack during construction, once its completed, queue 5 musketeers, and queue another one for emergency(make the production smoother).

6. Keep building manor house as wood rolls in, and raid him(take down a house if possible) with your 11 musketeer+exploer.
Tip: Use Stagger mode to maximize musketeer's range firing efficiency and increase the LOS of the whole formation.

7. Keep producing Musketeers and drop manor houses as wood rolls in, you could halt villager production if it has conflict with musketeer production, cause your manor house both give pop and act as a form of "villager production".

8. Next Card: 700 Wood

9. After the wood shipment have arrived, collect it with 2 wood villagers ASAP
Tip: task one villager on the 500 wood stack and another on the 100 stack for maximum gathering efficiency(less walking time in between crates).

10. As this gigantic bounty of wood rolls in and you were harrasing/housing him in his base( attack barracks if he stays in colonial and fight), task your forward villager to build another barracks(or a stable if he was massing range infantry(i.e skirmihser-ish unit or archers with HI bonus).

11. Now, whenever you reach 135 wood, build another manor with a coin/food villager and waypoint the manor to the resource you want the new spammed villager to gather. You should have 5/6 manors(or 4 with another outpost) before the crates was exhuasted(combined with your wood villagers), thats 5/6 new villagers( divide evenly between food and coin).

12. As you were building more manors and killing enemy unit inside his base, you should have enough XP to ship another card, chose 700 food Collect ASAP when it arrives(save collection tactic as 700 food).

13. Start double barrack spamming right before you start gathering 700 food, with a good enough manor building micro you should have no-problem getting 2 set of 10 musketeer out.
In case that you chosed to drop a stable, way point your 2 forward villager to coin(they were normally on food), and add another manor to get one more villager on coin. When the food rolls in, make sure hussar are your producition pioroty.

14. After this musketeer surge, you should have enough villager from manors to keep double(in case you chose a stable, let your wood stockpile at some point to add one more barrack) barrack spamming(8/10) and resume producing villager and you also have a 130+ pop and 30 ish villagers. The rest is up to you, but this strat probably took you close enough to the fringe of victory if you used it right and microed your villagers well.

GG! Wave the Union Jack like crazy after claiming victory

A few more tips that could help:

some nice cards: 700 coin(for fortress jump after giving a server hit to his eco)/musketeer(grenadier as well) HP/Attack/2 Caravel&Schooner(on water map)/Improved Grenade(to cause a false illusion to your oppoent that you were planing to use Fingon_NL's uber grenadier house buster strategyBritish Improved Grenadier "rush" and train cav )

Some GREAT cards: Wood Trickle/Advance Aresnal.

Wood Trickle: Unlike The coin & food trickle cards that works like 2 villagers, the wood trickle card that is avlialbe to britain and russia works as 2.5 villager(1.25/.5=2.5), it actullay works better than 3 villagers cause you don't need to pay walking time) and saves pop. The draw back was that if you are a uber 2K and your herding owns, 3 villager shipment might give your -10sec colonial time(which couldn't enjoy cause my micro sucks wn3d: )

Advance Arensal: It offers 4 different upgrade to musketeers, definitely a good card when you have to stick in colonial for a long time and fight him to the death.

Fencing School: Faster training for musketeer and all other infantries. A good choice when you hit a 35+ villagers.

I will have the deck pictures out as soon as I understand how to upload them

Best wishes to all Redcoats and enjoy!

God save the Queen!

p.s Advice and criticisms are welcome

Edit1: Fixed some digits errors and add wood trickle picture.

Edit2: Added the Hussar alternative BO changes.

Edit3: Added the BO link for a British Improved Grendier rush that could be carried out without much change with this strategy.

Edit4: Added a little descripition about my expectation on this strategy, a counter-agrument for somebody's weird comment.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-11-2007 @ 09:00 PM).]

Replies:
posted 02-08-07 09:08 AM EDT (US)     1 / 33  
Those colours! They hurt my eyes!

Seriously, nice strat. I'm looking forward to fight it with my cowboys!

posted 02-08-07 09:18 AM EDT (US)     2 / 33  
Loved the design Now let me read it...

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posted 02-08-07 11:18 AM EDT (US)     3 / 33  
Nice strat. I look forward to trying it out once I get the chance. It seems slightly vulnerable to early counter-infantry, though... I can see why you recommend to avoid Dutch / Russia / Natives, who can get these units early.

It could be compensated for toward the second wave of the rush if you went with a Stable instead of 2nd Barracks to get some Cav to help with any available counter-infantry.

Not related to the strat, but we really need an abbreviation for the "units formerly known as Light Infantry" (sounds a bit like Prince )... RI (ranged inf), vLI (vanilla light inf), CI (counter inf)... something


Mercy has no meaning to me.
Common Sense and Common Courtesy should be renamed; neither are very common anymore.
posted 02-08-07 11:54 AM EDT (US)     4 / 33  
Greatly layed out strategy, with good use of pictures. I'm certain that there is some kind of reward topic with a strategy presentation award that needs this topic's vote.

P.S All hail the blue blood brits?


Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
posted 02-08-07 12:42 PM EDT (US)     5 / 33  

Quote:

P.S All hail the blue blood brits?


Hail!

I like this strat. Nothing original but i'm going to dust off my brit HC and give it a test. NOt far off lvl 40 so i'l aim for the wood trickle card.

Thanks for posting this.

posted 02-08-07 09:32 PM EDT (US)     6 / 33  
Thanks. I orginally posted this at GameReplay.org and you need some color to make your post show up nicely over there(cause their dumb background color=dark blue). I guess orange was a bit too hard over here, I will change it.

p.s Hail the blue blood brits!

Edit: A few mistakes fixed. The wood trickle card was lv25 instead of 40(sorry), I also added its picture and readjusted some digitis.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-08-2007 @ 10:16 PM).]

posted 02-08-07 10:42 PM EDT (US)     7 / 33  
ive been waiting to get back into brits

"to do anything but your best would be to sacrafice the gift"
posted 02-08-07 11:39 PM EDT (US)     8 / 33  
Wow, this is really nice. Only suggestion would be to throw in some hussar to help. Maybe send 3 hussar instead of 6 musk for a more balanced early attack.

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posted 02-09-07 01:09 AM EDT (US)     9 / 33  

Quote:

Don't use this start against? Dutch/Russia(if they age quick enough)/Iros/Sioux/Ottos who are smart enough to train Abus Guns

You forgot about aztecs.

So basically u can use it vs French, Port and Germans. 2 civs that are UP and barely anyone uses and french which isnt rare but is a comodity. U will only find iro otto and dutch out there right now. So maybe after next patch i will use this strat.


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posted 02-09-07 06:07 AM EDT (US)     10 / 33  

Quote:

So basically u can use it vs French, Port and Germans. 2 civs that are UP and barely anyone uses and french which isnt rare but is a comodity. U will only find iro otto and dutch out there right now. So maybe after next patch i will use this strat.

You forgot that spain exist as a civil

I didn't say that "don't use this strategy against a civil that lacks musketeer counters". What I am implying was that "don't use this strategy agains civils that have POWERFUL" musketeer counters". If you have decent micro, you will H&R the Azetc player's Jaguar to death, and macs suck against high-range attack heavy infantry. I also said that don't use it against EXPERT russains, which means that you have a chance against slow russains.

Also, the Hussar alternative could make this strategy work better as well.

p.s there are still a batch of franchies out there


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

posted 02-09-07 06:49 AM EDT (US)     11 / 33  
A brit fwding on an aztec is suicide. if he sees your fwd he can do a BBR and easily take out your fwd... 10 mace + 3 jags will beat any early army you have, and he'll be adding 6 more jags and either 10 mace or 6 janeys when you still have a negligible mass.

If he doesn't see the fwd he's still ok with a straight mace spam... with 19 shippable he can very easily outmass you.


ESO: Naevius
posted 02-09-07 10:08 AM EDT (US)     12 / 33  
building hussar would probably knock a Dutch or a russian out of the water, with 6 shipped musks in reserve to counter 8 shipped pikes. Yeah, he'll be getting a ton of coin, but if you keep him off his hunts and wood he'll be helpless. Unless he throws up a market, but even then he's throwing away resources, by which point you can afford to mix in musks.

The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: "I feed on your energy."
-Frank Herbert, Dune
posted 02-09-07 04:21 PM EDT (US)     13 / 33  
11 musketeers at 5:40 means a russian can have 23 strelets when you hit his base.

So you say this works against port, germany, france, and spain. I doubt it works against spain because even if spain makes a mistake they can win easily, and ports are good anti-rush, and france should be able to match your muskets or surpass your unit number because france are so much stronger than britain. Oh and against aztec this is suicide. They have great rushes-and only if they FF will this work.

I'll give it to you that it works against most civs, but all civs can counter it if they see it coming (except germany). Which makes it balanced.

P.S. It must have taken a long time to get all those pictures in...


~·························································~
ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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posted 02-09-07 05:00 PM EDT (US)     14 / 33  
Hmm, with Spain it's easy to get out 10 muskets(2 barracks) and 7 rods(shipment) by 5:40.
posted 02-09-07 05:32 PM EDT (US)     15 / 33  

Quote:

all civs can counter it if they see it coming


obviously, isn't that the point of scouting?
posted 02-10-07 03:00 PM EDT (US)     16 / 33  
^Yes. I meant all civs can counter it easily if they see it coming, rather than having to awkwardly adjust strategies/build orders.

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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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[This message has been edited by F1RE_FLY (edited 02-10-2007 @ 03:00 PM).]

posted 02-10-07 04:01 PM EDT (US)     17 / 33  

Quote:

Wow, this is really nice. Only suggestion would be to throw in some hussar to help. Maybe send 3 hussar instead of 6 musk for a more balanced early attack.

Britain doesn't have a 3 hussar card.

And this strategy is really only viable against civs who don't have an infantry unit besides xbows and lbows, even then you'll have to outmass your opponent.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 02-11-07 05:04 AM EDT (US)     18 / 33  
Why didn't you say Fingons Gren Rush here? :P
And this is my usual BO if I go musket rush vs Spain for example,(hint: put 5 spies in your deck vs spain)

Also I always make a stable vs a FF-er with the 700 wood shipment, hussar are very easy to add with your eco and they pown if they have xbow only or FF(hussars beat lancers and the falcs shipments too)

[This message has been edited by Fingon_NL (edited 02-11-2007 @ 10:58 AM).]

posted 02-11-07 09:18 AM EDT (US)     19 / 33  

Quote:

Why didn't you say Fingons Gren Rush here? :P

Cause you didn't post your uber grenade rush here, duh(kidding)!

and for out-massing your opponent with musketeers, that is exactly what this strategy was designed for.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-11-2007 @ 09:19 AM).]

posted 02-11-07 10:59 AM EDT (US)     20 / 33  
You can always give the link -_-
posted 02-11-07 06:25 PM EDT (US)     21 / 33  
OK, I will add that.

Edit:Link added, but it would be better for your just to copy and paste your start here so that the mods at this place won't be so upset.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-11-2007 @ 06:32 PM).]

posted 02-11-07 06:39 PM EDT (US)     22 / 33  
muskteers lack the HP advantage of jans, so spam them is not as effective in general, unless against german, which just doesnt happen these days. I'd say for your second barrack, you should go with a stable and make hussar.

if it was me, I'd even make a stable first, and rely on shipped muskt and longbow until i run out.

posted 02-11-07 07:21 PM EDT (US)     23 / 33  

Quote:

muskteers lack the HP advantage of jans, so spam them is not as effective in general, unless against german, which just doesnt happen these days. I'd say for your second barrack, you should go with a stable and make hussar.
if it was me, I'd even make a stable first, and rely on shipped muskt and longbow until i run out.

Exactly why I added the BO change for building a stable instead of barrack

For ship in muskt & LBs, you would run out of them pretty quickly. It would also be helpful to have 8cherokee mercs in your deck.

And I don't expect this strategy could pwn any civil easily(since brit is a a balanced civil, some may argue that they are slightly UP), but this definitely could hold your opponent for a while as you out boom his at the same time with manors.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-11-2007 @ 07:23 PM).]

posted 02-11-07 08:13 PM EDT (US)     24 / 33  
main problems: ottos/dutch/russian/spain/iro/aztec/sioux/french. Basically everyone except other brits, ports, and germs. This strategy is not very hard to counter. It's only barely fast enough to kill Russians, so if you make a vill micro mistake, gg. This is only going to kill ottos if you go 1v1 and make a variety of units. If they mass jans and you mass muskets/hussars, then gg. Forget about fighting dutch with this, skirm/pike/superior econ will kill your rush. You actually do have a chance against spain if you go fast enough, as muskets CAN kill rods and lancers. However, if you don't do enough damage to their economy you will get overwhelmed by Spain's OPness eventually. Against natives, muskets can't kill a warhut fast enough. Also every native civ has a cheap HI counter. Against French you will have to QUICKLY overwhelm their army and move against the tc before they make any unexpected and versatile moves (like ff, xbow spam, or musket spam). If they hold off your attack and ff, gg.

Even germ with the saloon outlaws might be able to counter this.


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posted 02-11-07 08:23 PM EDT (US)     25 / 33  

Quoted from sahinthefalcon:

This is only going to kill ottos if you go 1v1 and make a variety of units.


Quoted from sahinthefalcon:

If they mass jans and you mass muskets/hussars, then gg.

I think you contradicted your own arguement right there.
p.s brits are BETTER at team games than 1v1

Quoted from sahinthefalcon:

Forget about fighting dutch with this, skirm/pike/superior econ will kill your rush

Were you so much blind that you didn't see this line:

Quoted from rangergeneral:

Don't use this start against? Dutch

Quote:

You actually do have a chance against spain if you go fast enough, as muskets CAN kill rods and lancers. However, if you don't do enough damage to their economy you will get overwhelmed by Spain's OPness eventually

AS they eventually run out of shipments and got overtook economically by my boom? LOL!

Quote:

Even germ with the saloon outlaws might be able to counter this.

Did I say "this start is the ultimate uncouterable pwnzore" anywhere?

Nope

I did my best with the post-LB nerf brit civilisation(biritish spelling), but it is not much I can do since this civil lacks a lot of things(powerful heavy cavlary, a decent counter to Powerful Heavy Infantry, lack of a great FF, etc).


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 02-11-2007 @ 08:24 PM).]

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