outlaws worked vs me...

at any rate, DONT try to take out the Dutch banks; if you really want to hurt his eco, or slow him down at the very least, raid his huntables and mines

he'll be the first to deplete his closeby mines due to the need to mine gold right away for vills, and the 30% mining boost

food is the life blood of banks, and food is required for halbs and skirms; keep him off those huntables. if you force him to use mills, he has been slowed down a LOT.

[This message has been edited by ZION_CDawg (edited 02-12-2007 @ 12:36 PM).]

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Could you tell me how, please (and what outlaws were used)?

I believe I told u in that outlaw defense post. Comancheros.

Mercantilism FF with 3 SW sent instead of 700 gold and then cross your fingers ...

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agreed
it's a very nice strat if give the time

Dutch just outclass german in every way. Better eco, better military, better FF. Versus equal skill dutch you should lose everytime as german. BTW, don't spies counter outlaws? So if u try that rush, he puts down a church and throws a few spies at u with his huge gold supply.

Spies do NOT counter outlaws. Only mercs and minor natives. Thats it.

SUX2000 thats the 2nd time you've posted outlaws counter spies, and multiple people keep saying no they don't, go back and read the replies to threats you post in. ><

I found that port and germany turtling on NWT = Very effective, german gets a bunch of wood treasures puts up a TP, goes 3 wagons - teutonic TC and then palastine settlements at a normal rate that everyone else does. Port player in front with his double TC shooting for 180 while the german player just makes outlaws or xbows.

Also quite effective on that is team wallhp+building and wall the 3 entrances to major slow down a rush.

^ Thats about the only thing I can think of that would work that hasnt already been stated. But thats 2v2 not 1v1

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 02-12-2007 @ 09:35 PM).]

Unfortunetly you won't always have the option of turtling, but it is a good idea.

Lord_Kivlov just posted the most powerful turtle possible in the game heh heh

third port TC can either go on the island to the east, across the river, or next to the river to take water control.
Ports + Germans = pwnage

wanna make it even more effective? Throw in Iroqious, with greathouse and town dance. he builds the walls... with port + 50%, and Towndance with 25 vills what would those wall HP be? over 25k?

Just go for his wood supply. I play Dutch all the time, and wood is essentially my most important resource.

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True, I forgot. However, can Comancheros stop a Dutch from getting into fortress?

The problem with the mercantilism ff is that if you have enought time, so does he. And he uses it to put down a lot of banks. By the time you arrive at him, his eco will be much better than yours.

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Until someone gets falcs, I guess.

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As a Dutch player, food should be your most scarce resource ... think about it.

You have 400 age up wood, and you should have 700 and 600 wood shipments for back and other things if you get trapped in your TC area. That will last you some time. As for food, if you sent colbertism you have a start, and you can always sneak some villagers off to hunt if you think it's safe and if you didn't herd, or gather some berries nearby. Another important aspect is that wood isn't needed to produce any infantry unit of Dutch, you will need skirms to repel most rushes and those cost food+gold, not wood.

Wood is essential to dutch, I play dutch all the time now, and wood is so important. If I get to to industrial and send my 2 facotries. I have them constantly on wood.

BECAUSE for dutch we have to build our 6-10 banks 10x350W=3,500W

Also as dutch for some reason we like to cow/sheep boom, so we have to build another building (200W

Also we have to pay for every stinking upgrade with wood. ARRgg Well almost everyone. It seems like I am always having to have to switch my factories to wood, because I have to upgrade my halberdiers skirmies, hussars, and ruyters.

Maybe im just upgrade happy, but I try and clk on every upgrade for my dutch troops.

Finally We go house crazy when we need houses the most. lol

In the end we just go halberdier and skirm crazy

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I did get to fortress, but too late to do anything about the 20+ comancheros, 5 doppels, and some xbows. It may have been a one time occurance, he did have 100 cuetech on me. But he didn't find my huntables so I wasn't losing much in the way of gathering except for wood. I had 3 banks up if I recall right.

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As for falcs... Port TCs with CM AND German team tc upgrade means those falcs are dieing in just 2 or 3 TC hits. He may manage to get a TC down, but definitely not cost effectively. You'll need mortars or monitors to deal with a Port/German Turtle.

[This message has been edited by ZION_CDawg (edited 02-13-2007 @ 02:12 PM).]

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Either way, I doubt a Comanchero rush would stop a Dutch, yours was just a isolated case. I mean, to start with, ten Comancheros cost insane 1200 Gold and over one minute and a half. Fifteen of those is as expensive as going to Fortress Age... Not to mention the insane pop, 5 Dops, etc.

And, even if Comancheros were really good units, they don't counter anything Dutch will have but Hussars. You can argue Pikes can be killed with hit and running, but as any Ranged Cavalry they are countered by Skirmishers. I'd just say he got you unprepared for an attack and won the game.

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This make me wonder what kind of moster Germans + Iro would create.

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 02-13-2007 @ 03:03 PM).]

I hope you're right walker
I'd hate for it to happen again. The comancheros just have too much HP for skirms to be effective, though I should have had way more skirms.

I couldn't figure out how he had so many units, so fast. Palantine settlements, 9 xbows card, and that card that makes outlaws less pop and adds ronin were prolly all played... as GERMAN.. ouch
bah, i'm still in shock from that game

Something I have played around with lately (like against JarlNick here) is to get some TPs in the transit to colonial, research Stagecoach and then use the gold income from them to get falconets (as much as possible). It seems to work.

Mmm the NWT turtle strat works great, because by the time they've hit fort (After they've realized they can't rush you cause of super walls and TCs) the german player's eco has been untouched and his shipment rate is better than normal euros cause of the 2 TP's which are essentially free from the what, 5-7 wood treasures and then the TP can be upgraded and switched to coin, go fort and get 2 culverin out and falc problem is solved. (TC card + imp building = 10200~ hp)

Dutch is only wood heavy when banking(and most of this comes from a shipment if not all), fortress is no problem because your 3 most used units (Halbs, Skirms, Ruyters) are already veteran, and with 30-40 vills on food, 10-20 wood, 8 banks and 2 factories on coin, there should be no need for factories going to wood. But guess I'm just lucky as wood is rarely a factor for me

It's much more effective to remove a dutch player from food, because once you do that, you also force him to use up wood that would go into a bank. If I can keep vills on food, and the rest on coin with my 4 banks in colonial-fort, I'm laughing cause oh noes I'm at 39/40 pop, I guess I gotta use 125 of 1k+ coin to buy 100 wood for a house.

and Just a Player, it isn't pretty at all, 225 damage TC. Good bye Hussars in 1 shot (It's rather sickening with 25 vills building dancing it not sure on numbers but my Ops had one hell of a time bringing it down, couldn't find the fire pit)

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 02-13-2007 @ 05:32 PM).]