This makes me want to play a civ with Grenadiers.

I'll try this with Germany too, but with Landsknecht instead of naders. I'd like to see how that works out (Landsknecht also beat rods).

[This message has been edited by Mediolanus (edited 03-01-2007 @ 04:13 AM).]

up with approx 13 vills + 300 wood (instead of 3 vills)

300 wood = 2 houses = 2 vills = more xp = faster shipment
TC+starting house+2 houses= 40 pop cap

if you started with 200 wood, you'll only have to chop 205wood for your foundry
if you started with 300 wood, you made 2 house at start and only need 1 extra house from the 300 wood shipment. This means you only need to chop 105 wood for the foundry

you'll have 15-16 vills to split on food/gold

age up with 500 food
best time I had was under 6.20 (to destroy the TC)
was on GPlains btw

something important I noticed:
dont keep your explorer in the same group as the grens, have him attack some house/market or villager to get the attention somewhere else, but also, your explorer fires faster than grens, this usually makes the targetted units run away and they get out of the gren-LOS before the grens actully fire :s

hope you like

i have used 300 wood over 3 vils before, the problem with 300 wood is slower age up time because you dont have that 3 vils gathering food. so i stopped using it.

as you may notice, i chop 2 houses of wood during aging as well, so i end up with 40 pop arriving age2, this way i get 3 more vils and enough XP for next shipment.

chopping wood is slow, I only need 105 or 205, where you need a lot more

but no hard feelings, I just wanted to share a different b/o

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there is no hard feelings, i am happy to discuss intersting stuff like this

so you leave your wood and use it once you began aging, in that case you will be slightly faster because i make 1 more vil than you, but if you have more than 25 seconds idle time due to hunts too far, then you kinda lose out.

so how long does my 4 extra vils catch up?

300 wood worth 600 VS, it takes about 50 VS to gather them, which means my 4 vils have 550 VS to catch up - it only takes a bit more than 2 minutes. since my 3 vils would have been working since 2:30, i will have it all paid back by 5:30 the latest, after which i have straight 4 more vils.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-01-2007 @ 07:14 AM).]

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I think that's only true in an optimal situation, because of walktimes, but you're right when saying that once you catch up, your eco will be a bit better
but being brits, I don't care all that much about it at that stage of the game, when needed, all vills go on wood and the house booming can start and catch up

I will gladly do some new tests and see where we can improve

Can your version produce 10 grens in a row, because that was my initial aim.
also, I ship as 2nd card the gren combat card, followed by 6 musks (or sometimes vise versa, still not sure)

cheers

hwoever i do it slightly different to him (or as far as i can see in the replay), i think he doesnt use age1 card and he doesnt build barrack(he had one in Texas), nor does he use 700 wood.

his was actually just like zongo's.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-01-2007 @ 03:56 PM).]

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although i have not encountered a GHFF yet, i think this will own it.

because GH still takes a good 3 hits to kill a grenadier, not even close to being powerful enough to save the TC from going down.

it is a lot more effective for iro to save that shipment for 5 cuirs once they reached fortress and shipped them to a warhut.

even just 8 prowlers is pretty dangerous.

i think against Iro it is actually a good idea to get hussars over musketeers, if you have 6~7 hussars by the time he gets 8 prowlers, you can kill them off pretty safely.

what sucks is that muskets (especially only 6), arent great anti cav and britain has no pike shipment so nade rushing is hard.

musketeers are way better than pikes. as far as grendadiers support goes, and british grenadier rush is way better than dutch's.

sure you only get 6 muskteers (which i dont actually recomand getting before you use up three 700 res crates), but they last longer than pikes, they each last 7 hits from hussar, where pikes last 5. they each do very similar amount of damage to pikes, but packed with more HP, making them a lot more pop eficient. and when there are no cavalry, they can shoot the vils, wheres pikes do pathetic damage to vils.

the this rush is way better than the dutch one because the dutch one lives on very skinny eco, should the rush fail, you are definitely dead, the dutch rush is also often hard to keep the housing level right, shipping 700 wood just for houses doesnt give dutch any eco boost.

whats more, is that the british grenadiers are considerably more powerful, they do 20% better in combat and 87% better against buildings.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-04-2007 @ 02:03 PM).]

this rush requires 10 naders (they do same amount of siege as 19 dutch naders), you have 9 naders res to spend on muskters, which should give you 16~17 muskteers, try match that with 8 pikes.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-04-2007 @ 02:20 PM).]

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Still, may be useful to get socket bayonet while still in age 2 to counter cav better.

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Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.

i got a recording now so you can see how it goes. i attacked really really late (7:30+) here because i was afraid of him getting coyotes, so i waited until i had enough muskteers.

turns out he had nothing, he was doing a slow version of FF. afterwards i realised that against aztec, you have to do it early, because once his FF, eagle + skull is impossible to beat with grenadier and muskts, but if you killed his TC before he FF, he got nothing to spend his gold on, just like this guy.

just to show that he is not a complete noob, here is another game but this time i played otto and did a triple dock boom.

these 6 jaguar pets are OP, good job they nerfed it.

One question: this strat is entirely dependent on your enemy fast fortressing. Why would he fast fortress if he sees your deck and that grenadier improvement card?

Some of the greatest strategies in the game are outdone by noobs. I had a defeat handed to me once by an otto noob. All he made was hussars, and he was good at micro too (probably got his good micro skills from another game). He killed all my LI and eventually won. But I know he was a noob because he built no TP.

besides, as i said he masses hussars you have to switch to muskts.

Anyway, what about a pure rush used against this? I know this is not a "competitive" deck and is just fun to use in a nonrated game, but realistically speaking a lot of players online rush. You stated in your first post that the grenadiers can beat all HI and small numbers of LI. Quite true. However, mass light infantry is the staple of aoe3.

if it is a pure rush then hopefully you have scouted it and massed musketeers instead.

pure LI spamming is only a worry when it is skirms and abus, eveyrthing else die hard to 400 ranged HP 19 splash siege damage.

of course, getting hussars is always a good idea.

here is another game, this is where he scouts my foundry and I have to adapt to the situation. i did no send the improved grenade card, just made 3, hoped they could take done the damn barrack before they die, no success. made some hussars, then i saw his 8 pikes (-_-). qiuckly put down a barrack and got about 16 musketeers. he was probably in panic mode (didnt even make vils!) because he didnt expect a rush, now that my score was ahead of his he didnt know what to make, so he decided to FF and made a few more skirms, they quickly died to my 7 hussars and 8 pikes couldnt last under the fire of 16 muskts.

People are generally just shocked by
A) British rushing.
B) Grenadier rushing.
C) The fact they can take down a TC so quickly.

I find they are fairly poor vs rushers though. They don't do too badly but you cannot replace them fast enough once down.