You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: ~Shadow Warriors~ A Sioux team strategy
posted 03-24-07 09:29 AM EDT (US)   
~Shadow Warriors~

I. Intro
This strategy is a hybrid between Beatnik Joe's Aztec Scout Slam strategy and Smear's Tashunke Shank strategy.Special thanks to them for the inspiration.

This strategy is intended for team play, not yet adapted for 1 on 1 yet.I have tested the Sioux Scout Slam (my modified version of Aztec Scout Slam) several times in team matches. My opponents, every time even my teammates, have cussed me out and accused me of being a dirty and dishonorable player. The reason is this: stealth. Basically I just sneaked invisible advanced native scouts into the enemy town, killed off the villagers, ran away from the military until enemy units were out of range, and turned invisible again, and repeat. When I hit fortress, I gathered a lot of villagers on the fire pit for the fire dance to turn my scouts into siege machines. With my allies fighting the enemy army, I had my scouts demolish the enemy cities.

Sounds great right? However, that strategy only landed me in a support role in my team. Also, my scouts were too weak against military @ fortress. I had to have my allies keep the military off my scouts. I wanted a more active role and units that can protect the scouts, so I looked upon the Tashunke Prowlers. These guys are 10x better than the scouts. They're stronger(when in numbers) and faster. Once equipped with all the shipment upgrades for cavalry, they are OP when expertly micro'd. So now, instead of not having
a military, I'll have a powerful military to protect my scouts while the scouts are doing their job (pillaging towns).

II. Strategy

1. Why the Sioux?
The Sioux have 200 population at the start, which saves a lot of wood and time for the scouts. Plus, they have
OP native shipments Black Arrow and Native American Warriors. Black Arrow makes you produce scouts at almost Speed-always-wins production rates. Native American Warriors
lowers the cost of producing a Scout from 90 to 67, which makes a big difference. With wood saved from not building houses, breakneck scout production rates with cheap costs, it's why the Sioux is the best candidate for an advanced native scout slam strategy.

2. Cards
Required Cards:
- Villager Cards
- Advanced Scouts Card
- Wood Production upgrade cards
- Black Arrow
- Native American Warriors
- 4 Axe Riders / 2 Dog Soldiers (Age 2 version)
- 700 food
- Marauders
- Dakota Support
- Cavalry Upgrades
- 1000 food
Recommended Cards:
- Kinship Ties(turns your native embassies into Town Centers, in that it enables them to produce villagers, so no need for TC anymore!)
- New Ways (Basically Turns your Tepees into Arsenals.)
- Advanced Market
- Center of Power (A killer when combined with firepit's Big Button, Battle Anger.)
- 4 Tashunke Prowlers
- Command Skill

3. Strategy Process
A basic rundown of the strategy (not an exact build order):
*NOTE: For this strategy to be successful, your allies
must agree to protect your Town Center from rushes. Also they need to agree to keep the enemy military busy so they don't own your scouts. However, usually the enemy will send
a smaller army to attack the scouts. That's where the tashunke prowlers come in.

Discovery Age:
- Build a market and upgrade with Hunting Dogs ASAP.
- Age up ASAP at 8-10 villagers with the Messenger Politician.
- Don't spend any shipments yet until Colonial.
Disc. -> Colon. Age Transition:
- Immediately move all but 4 villagers to wood.
- Build a fire pit ASAP and have 2 villagers do XP dance.
Colonial Age:
- Ship 4 Axe Riders or 2 Dog Soldiers immediately.
- Do hit and run with them on the villagers in the
enemy town nearest you to slow the enemy down and buy time. Ideally, do this on booming civilizations.
- Upgrade your wood production from the market asap.
- Try to get 4 medicine men out of the firepit if you can. They can save a lot of resources by healing your men.
- Ship Advanced Scouts card
- Produce 4-5 scouts asap and send them to the nearest enemy doing hit-and-run tactics on the villagers, this time utilizing stealth to annoy the hell out of the enemy.
- You should be constantly producing villagers every time you hit 100 food, putting them all on wood.
- Ship 700 food
- By then, you should have enough food to age up, so just sell your wood surplus until you have 1000 coin. If you used Advanced Market, you would be getting better deals with your wood. So age up with wood politician.

Transition:
- Have your Warchief build a trading post at a native settlement.
- Move a couple villagers near the edge of the side of the map nearest to the enemy so they can build native embassies.

Fortress Age:
- Keep producing and putting villagers on wood.
- At the same time, start putting more villagers on the firepit and switch to fertility dance to make villager production faster.
- Once you have 10-15 villagers on firepit and 20-25 on wood, switch the dance to xp dance.
- Ship wood upgrades asap.
- Upgrade wood production @ market asap.
- Activate the market's big button, New Years festival, to receive 3-4 new shipments.
- Ship 1000 food, Cavalry Combat, and Cavalry Damage. Also ship Dakota Support if you have any more shipments(you'll have to exchange at the market for coin).
- Build a corral somewhere and start producing Tashunke Prowlers.
- Basically when you have at least 60 Scouts, do fire dance and sneak them into the town. Focus 50 scouts on destroying buildings and 10 on killing villagers.
- Just basically use your Tashunke Prowlers to go near your enemy's town with stealth, and respond with them when you need to defend your scouts when they attack the town. Your allies should be taking care of the military.
- Also have your medicine men go near the enemy town. When your troops retreat, the wounded ones can get healed by the healers.
.
.
.
4. Population
Here's the basic ideal blueprint for the population for this strategy: (you could scale it down depending on when you start to mass-raid)
- 60 villagers (25 on firepit, 25 on wood, 5 on food, and 5 on coin).
- 18 x 2 Tashunke Prowlers (36 total)
- 4 medicine men
- 100 native Scouts

5. Hotkeys
These groupings or hotkeys will help a lot since this strategy needs a lot of micromanagement. You can put these in any order:
1. Army #1 (Scout Protectors): 18 Tashunke
Prowlers
2. Army #2 (Anti Anti-Cavalry): 20 Native Scouts
3. Auxillary (medic): 4 medicine men
4. Siege: 50 Native Scouts
5. Anti-Economy (food villager killers): 10 Native Scouts
6. Anti-Economy (wood villager killers): 10 Native Scouts
7. Anti-Economy (coin villager killers): 10 Native Scouts

III. Tips

- Scouts are very versatile. Just send and spread out 5-10 invisible scouts across the map. They'll basically serve as cheap invisible non-attacking outposts. It's just like Spies, except much cheaper.
- You should upgrade your cavalry with the big buttons in the farm and the tepee (after you shipped the new ways card). Every little upgrade counts. Also consider upgrading your Warchief with the firepit big button, Battle Anger. It turns your WC into a artillery-killing machine (makes him one-shot kill artillery). Just mix him into your Tashunke Prowler army and start kicking artillery butt.
- Remember the main tactic is hit-and-run. If you do that and turn invisible when the military is chasing you,
your raid (or annoyance) will be much more effective.

IV. Conclusion

Well, that's about it. This strategy is open for suggestions so I can improve it (that's why I posted it). Thanks for reading and please leave feedback!

[This message has been edited by diaoman (edited 03-24-2007 @ 09:56 AM).]

Replies:
posted 03-24-07 09:45 AM EDT (US)     1 / 22  
What would the times be for your final 60 scout attack? The armies of three civs versus the armies of two + 60 scouts? I think your opponants would win.

However 50 powered up scouts by 15 villies could destroy loads of buildings. With the right micro...It could work. I think it deserves a shot.

posted 03-24-07 09:54 AM EDT (US)     2 / 22  

Quote:

What would the times be for your final 60 scout attack? The armies of three civs versus the armies of two + 60 scouts? I think your opponants would win.

However 50 powered up scouts by 15 villies could destroy loads of buildings. With the right micro...It could work. I think it deserves a shot.

Well of course I would have my teammates taking care of the enemy military while I destroy the enemy buildings and villagers. Well this strategy is in the format of a pure FF. So I guess the mass-raid would be the same or almost the same as a typical FF.

posted 03-24-07 10:00 AM EDT (US)     3 / 22  
They would definetly not let you potter on destroying all the buildings you want though. I always attack seige units first when defending, cannon, HI, Oprikniks etc.
posted 03-24-07 10:11 AM EDT (US)     4 / 22  
That's the thing. When I start the siege the enemy will not know what hit him. After 6 seconds, his artillery foundry is gone and pretty soon his barracks. I can even go as far as the fort, if enough scouts were assigned to attack it. The fire dance multiplies all units' siege damage by about 221% with a full firepit. Imagine 50+ advanced scouts with 30-35+ siege appearing out of nowhere in the middle of your town, your military can come, but I will just retreat and disappear....and reappear at another section of the town destroying buildings.

[This message has been edited by diaoman (edited 03-24-2007 @ 10:37 AM).]

posted 03-24-07 10:43 AM EDT (US)     5 / 22  
And I will have Agents around my town, spotting you immediately and slaughtering you.
posted 03-24-07 10:49 AM EDT (US)     6 / 22  
Yeah spies do counter scouts. But when they're outnumbered, they're not very useful. Plus, I got my tashunke prowlers protecting the scouts
posted 03-24-07 11:27 AM EDT (US)     7 / 22  
and Medio has his uber war wagons protecting his agents from the tashuke?

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
posted 03-24-07 11:53 AM EDT (US)     8 / 22  

Quote:

and Medio has his uber war wagons protecting his agents from the tashuke

Nah, doppels would suffice since Tashunkes suck unless in large numbers (and when you have large numbers, I have Guard Dopps, which wtfpwnzr scouts) and dopps wouldn't fare badly against scouts.

posted 03-24-07 12:01 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22  
u 2 just get in a game and show how the strat work, bash him for me diaoman
posted 03-24-07 12:18 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22  

Quote:

u 2 just get in a game and show how the strat work, bash him for me diaoman

Considering the strat isn't meant for 1v1, I think the bashing will be the other way around.

posted 03-24-07 08:04 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22  
This looks really good dude. For team it might suck though lol

Im gona adapt it to 1v1 if i can.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-24-07 08:55 PM EDT (US)     12 / 22  
when u say age with 10 vills u mean make 10 vills with your starting 5 right?

quoted from jafit talking smack about ender in regards to the abus nerf: "He's probably in a fetal position on the floor holding an action figure abus gun."
posted 03-25-07 00:38 AM EDT (US)     13 / 22  

Quote:

This looks really good dude. For team it might suck though lol

Im gona adapt it to 1v1 if i can.

Thanks bro. For team play, if your allies agree to protect your town center (just one building), then this strategy will probably be successful. In the beginning (pre-fortress), you will have 5 scouts slowing down one enemy by slaughtering his villagers with hit-and-run-and-stealth. It basically makes the enemy unable to do anything, so it's a 3 vs. 2 game (or 2 vs 1). At the same time, you'll be FFing, building a large army of scouts, sneaking them into the enemy city you were pestering in the beginning, and sieging on his buildings with fire dance. A good time to siege is when your allies agree to start attacking.While the armies are fighting, your scouts appear out of nowhere in the middle of the enemy city and destroy lots of buildings and villagers. The enemy being attacked will retreat his army back to his city, which was busy fighting your allies' armies, to kill the siegeing scouts. And then when his army does come, just have your scouts run away and turn invisible....etc. I've tested this strategy on lan parties with my dormmates, and it's worked quite well. Except I haven't tested it implementing tashunke prowlers.

Quote:

when u say age with 10 vills u mean make 10 vills with your starting 5 right?

Yeah, age up to colonial with 8-10 villagers total.

[This message has been edited by diaoman (edited 03-25-2007 @ 00:56 AM).]

posted 03-25-07 00:46 AM EDT (US)     14 / 22  
Hmm after further thinking i dont think this can be adapted to a 1v1 strat. you would have to live far into 15 minutes of the game before it being worthwhile. so i think the best u can do is do a normal strategy and once u get enough of an eco/advantage start to make advanced scouts and tashunke, with which u can pwn your opponent.

By then though the game is already in your hands so its a question of whether you want to finish the game fast or fun.

None the less, it was a good idea.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-25-07 01:00 AM EDT (US)     15 / 22  
With the sioux, an advanced scout 1v1 strategy probably wouldn't work. However, it might work as a supplement to the Aztec Zap! Rush.

Edit: But maybe it's possible for the sioux against booming civs. If you successfully screwed up your enemy's economy early in the game
with the hit-and-run-and-stealth strategy, there could be a possible victory, as it buys you valuable time to make a large enough scout army to pulverize the enemy town. I've beaten a Portuguese player using pure scouts before.
For 1v1 advanced scout slam, you don't have time for the tashunke prowlers. You'll have to eliminate your opponent asap
before he hits industrial (although I did beat someone when he was at industrial by overwhelming his city with scouts...I
had like 10000+ wood).

[This message has been edited by diaoman (edited 03-25-2007 @ 01:19 AM).]

posted 03-25-07 08:36 AM EDT (US)     16 / 22  
For your siege why not build 60 war clubs if your allies are taking care of the military? or if raiding is what you want to do why dont you use the warchief and axe raiders? I just think that scouts are just for scouting unless used VERY early.
posted 03-25-07 12:03 PM EDT (US)     17 / 22  

Quote:

For your siege why not build 60 war clubs if your allies are taking care of the military? or if raiding is what you want to do why dont you use the warchief and axe raiders? I just think that scouts are just for scouting unless used VERY early.

Where have you been all this time? Click!

Quote:

Here are the new stats for the new and improved Scout:
180 HP, 15 melee attack, 15 siege, 5.5 speed, 22 LoS, 10% ranged resist, Cost: 90w (180 villager-seconds) (Can stealth)

And doesn't get multipliers from any units but Spies! Unless we're talking about Guard Clubmen here, I don't think you'd want to stick with them.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
posted 03-25-07 11:17 PM EDT (US)     18 / 22  
Realistically i dont think this strat works because unless ur playing a nr or treaty game u will get pwn, especially when facing another sioux player, their massed wakina pwn advanced scouts, and as for using this strat in 1v1, its tottally impossible vs a sioux FF. Good intention with this strat but i dont think that u have enough time to FF get 100 scouts and 18 tashunke

[img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/Marchand@5@21@1@TAD@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]
[img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/marcheese_11/Signature2.jpg[/img]
posted 03-26-07 12:26 PM EDT (US)     19 / 22  
Massed wakina would not pwn scouts or tashunkes...

Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-26-07 03:57 PM EDT (US)     20 / 22  
Hey dioman if you could get some rec games that would be great. I tried the Aztec Scout Slam, it was nice. I want to see this in action though.

"Apparently, arguing for the right to do something no-one wants to do is the lifeblood of HG." - TaylorFlame

"Whatever happened, BFME2H did it better. No Exceptions." - EnemyofJupitor
posted 03-26-07 04:49 PM EDT (US)     21 / 22  
The problem with this strat is

a) you rely on your allies too much. You're worthless to them until you are very far into the game.
b) All this strat says is basically "raid with scouts+tashunke"
c) By the time you have your army, your opponents could have done many different things.

posted 03-29-07 01:08 AM EDT (US)     22 / 22  
Thank you for your responses, I will take all your responses into consideration for maybe improving the strategy,
or making a new similar one. I will also release a recording by then.
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » ~Shadow Warriors~ A Sioux team strategy
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames