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Topic Subject: Dutch SSS
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posted 09-20-07 05:18 PM EDT (US)   
This is a strat i found out about the hard way (it was used on me!) I was scouting the enemy's base, when at 5:15, he had 3 BANKS UP!!! I said "WTF??" and looked at his deck. I saw SOUTH SEA BUBBLE. When he eco-raped me, I saw the ending stats- his gold diminished at 4 minutes and his wood skyrocketed. I tried this myself, and it is a very good strat. It will own any delayed rush or FF. I present you:


THE SOUTH SEA SLAM (or SSS)


Cards-

3 Vils
SSB
Bank Wagon
700 Food

Ok, so here is the BO-

DISCOVERY
1. 4 vils to mine, DONT MOVE THEM! 3 unpack gold
2. 2 herd after unpacking gold, other gathers rest of the crates and builds a house.
3. All new vils to food, as first card (this may shock you, are you ready for it?) - 3 vils
4. Age with 16-17 vils, and Philosipher Prince (500 food) *If you arent going to get the vil out before 800 food, dont make it. Speed is key!

TRANSITION
1. 11 vils to gold if you have 16, 12 if you have 17
2. Build another house if you have the wood
3. DONT MAKE ANY VILS!! Save as much gold as possible
4. depending on treasures, you will send SSB at ~ 2/3 of the way to colonial.

COLONIAL
1. 2 vils to unpack crates
2. NO VILS TIL SSB ARIVES!
3. When SSB arives, you should get ~1.5 k wood, probably a little less. use the 2 vils to lay down 3 banks.
4. When you order a vil, move ~5 of your miners to wood and food. When all banks are up, keep 2-3 on gold.
5. Buld housing/rax with leftover wood
6. If you are being rushed hard, i recommend laying some outposts behind your TC, sending out minutemen as necessary.
7. EXP will pour in thanks to banks, so send a bank wagon for your fourth bank.
8. I STRONGLY reccomend, to push your advantage, researching market techs. (You can igore the Gold ones!); if you're being rushed get greatcoat or blunderbuss ASAP.
9. 4th card is up to you, You are set up for a Skirm spam or a pike spam and send fencing school, but you could sent a +1 bank card and out-eco him(which you've already done). I DONT RECOMMEND FORTRESSING. This is slower than a FF or semi-FF, and you should do fine with skirms, hussars, and pikes. You may want to fort against a boomer, but i find a Skirm/Pike with flanking Hussars combo extremely effective. If he FF's, you need to raid him or set up a FB and spam units into his base. Or continue booming and set up good defenses.

NOTE- this can be used as a sling for another wood-havy teammate. If you do this and then tribute a russian, for example, he can set up some BH's. Or, you could do this and periodically send coin to a civ like germans who are very gold dependant.


Enjoy Dutch-Users!

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

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[This message has been edited by SupremeOverlord (edited 09-20-2007 @ 09:14 PM).]

Replies:
posted 09-20-07 07:18 PM EDT (US)     1 / 29  
Seems like a hard rush would beat this, but other than that, it looks great. I can't wait to try this out when I get home.

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posted 09-20-07 08:03 PM EDT (US)     2 / 29  
I think you've found me a reason to play dutch

should work great in team games i imagine

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posted 09-20-07 08:24 PM EDT (US)     3 / 29  
Seems like a hard rush would beat this, but other than that, it looks great.
Well a 1.03 Iro BB rush would beat any Boom or FF. However, with the Travois nerf, there is no true "hard" rush besides strelet spam or ZAP rush that could strike early enough. One you get the EXP in, and the coin flowing, you should be able to out-spam him quite nicely.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
posted 09-20-07 08:54 PM EDT (US)     4 / 29  
not to mention seems like you could spam outposts forever...i typically send 3 vills most of the time besides against souix or otto

[This message has been edited by IRP_m0f0 (edited 09-20-2007 @ 08:59 PM).]

posted 09-20-07 09:59 PM EDT (US)     5 / 29  
Supreme, that's a good point. I'll try this tomorrow, not enough time tonight.

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posted 09-21-07 01:21 AM EDT (US)     6 / 29  
Note. You only need 3 villies on gold in discovery, not 4. You'll even be able to pull them off gold to help with food before you age up, and still have villies coming from your tc.


A note on this strat, it locks you into colonial against most rushes. Sure you can bank boom, but you loose time recouping that gold lost from SSB. This is not a rush strat, but a variation on the FF bank boom. I use to have a deck with the SSB and found it good for treaty games only.

3 banks by 5:15 is nothing great, and remember your villies, even though they're dutch, gather food faster than gold, so if you're going to bank boom, you're better off doing 400 wood age up and sending 700 wood for the second card and the bank card for your 3rd card. That will put you at 4 banks by that magical 5 minute mark.

Either way, strats like this leave your base weak against anything that hits you before 6-7 minutes, which will be most rushes of any note.
posted 09-21-07 04:15 AM EDT (US)     7 / 29  
Damn you i was going to try making a strat using that card, well i might still give it a try.
posted 09-21-07 03:21 PM EDT (US)     8 / 29  
@ grellen

Well, i know 3 banks at 5:15 isn't amazing. But 3 Banks and a barracks and 3-4 houses is! You put up 3 banks first for exp, if you going to be rushed you can put up outposts. Then, you still have wood for at least one barracks, if not 2, and several houses. I fended off a rush at 6 mins with an outpost surrounded by houses, 1 barracks, and 10 skirms with 5 more being made. Id post a rec, but i have an Apple cmp. (I play on gameranger)

I have 4 miners on gold because that's what I normally need, if you use 3, you can do whatever. Also, there is less VS lost you move vils from hunts to mining.



Has anyone tried this at a higher rank? Does it work?

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
posted 09-21-07 04:15 PM EDT (US)     9 / 29  
Ok...I am no expert by any means....but I have been toying with South Sea Bubble for some time now.

Originally I was frustrated with the BO of 4 bank FF. I thought the wood gathering was so slow. I stunmbled onto the idea that if you put 5 villies on food immdediatley and the rest on gold (pumping out of the TC) and sending the 3 villie. So 9-10 villies on gold mine and 5 getting food by the time you age.

Ageed with the traditional wood (400) and I found I didnt have enough food for banks.

So I aged with 500 food. Perfect.

your second shipment (instead of waiting for second AGE and sending 700 wood)...you can send SSB while aging and both arrive at same time. I usually have about 800-900 gold which translates into ROUGHLY 1000-1100 wood (Not sure of exact exchange)

I pull 50% off gold and send to food.

build three banks and get exp. to send BANK WAGON.

then its basically however you want ot proceed....I think it works pretty well.
posted 09-21-07 05:18 PM EDT (US)     10 / 29  
So truewarrior, you put 11 vils on gold in discovery??? when do you age??? At that point, you wlll have ~2000 gold when SSB arrives!

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
posted 09-22-07 09:40 AM EDT (US)     11 / 29  
I think this is a very interesting strategy and a nice alternative to the normal 4 Bank FF. However, I think this type of strategy is not as popular due to the fact that you will have a huge amount of wood but not much gold. You don't need all 1.5K wood right when you get to Colonial, because it will take a little while to build the banks with those 2 settlers. And when the card arrives, you are temporarily out of gold, a Dutch player's most valuable resource. Also, the attack of pikes or skirms that you suggest seems to come a little bit late. It's certainly an interesting and creative strategy, but the 4 Bank FF just seems to be the best strategy that Dutch have right now.

By the way, I noticed that you have said that you own a Mac and play on GameRanger. I also play on GameRanger and my name on there is •Dr• Staley DA Bear. What is your name? We've probably played before.
posted 09-22-07 09:51 AM EDT (US)     12 / 29  
This is a solid strategy, back when [hope]Matt played, he did this sort of thing in a 2v2 game, where it works pretty well. It's also easier, since you can get more treasures and technically your ally can tribute you stuff and get more back with a profit.

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posted 09-22-07 10:36 AM EDT (US)     13 / 29  
@ Staley, im still SupremeOverlord on Gameranger, but i haven't been on in a couple of weeks because my internet connetion is down, so i use my neighbor's connection (i play on a macbook). It is so laggy it barely plays a 1v1. Im hoping it will get fixed soon, stupid repair guys. I have seen you a couple of times, but i dont think we've played.

I have not yet found out the best way to continue after building the banks. While i agree 1.5k wood i alot, do the math-

3 banks = 1050 wood
rax = 200 wood
housing = 200-300 wood

RIght there is 1.5k wood, and thats what I normally build in age 2 anyway. Plus, while you are temporarily out of gold, you have 11 gold miners, so you can continue settler production rather quickly with 3 banks on the way. What you can do is build a rax first and order some pikes, which you will have plenty of resources for. When the gold becomes available, then you can get out skirms to keep up the pressure. And, if you still need help, any extra wood can fund a stable for hussars. 700 gold could help you if you want to FF, but i didn't intend for this to be a FF, just a delyed FF or an inexhaustable rush.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
posted 09-23-07 04:13 PM EDT (US)     14 / 29  
That will put you at 4 banks by that magical 5 minute mark.
5 min? I find 6 min already challenging on normal maps without any special treasures

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posted 09-25-07 00:28 AM EDT (US)     15 / 29  
SupremeOverlord, you say SSB arrives 10 seconds into colonial and you get 1500w right? Assuming that's true, you turned 1200g into 1500w, (1200/.69vs into 1500/.5) a benefit of 1260vs. That's better than the 700w card (1225vs). However, you opted for 500f instead of 400w, setting you back 133vs. Does your earlier bank make up for the deficit?

btw you should also consider that your gold mine is now about 1200g smaller vs shipping 700w.

EDIT: 700w is actually 1313vs, so is better in all ways than SSB as the 2nd card.

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[This message has been edited by jaafit (edited 09-29-2007 @ 08:19 PM).]

posted 09-25-07 10:43 AM EDT (US)     16 / 29  
@jafitt: you say the gold mine is 1200 gold less....that is fine. You now have 4-5 BANKS! who cares if the mine is less? The whole point is getting banks up fast to reap its benifits.

Does anyone know what the bank is equal to in villies?
posted 09-25-07 11:46 AM EDT (US)     17 / 29  
Unupgraded bank is like 4.5 gold villies.
posted 10-06-07 03:40 PM EDT (US)     18 / 29  
I actually think it's less now. It went down since they gave Dutch that 15% mining bonus. It might be more like 3.5 now. I'm not sure.

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posted 10-11-07 06:43 PM EDT (US)     19 / 29  
i like this strat but...... u dont realise it locks u into colonial age and leaves u with very few settlers early on and lastly this can easly be countered by a 4min rush with ottoman but all asid i like this strat

Crossing roads are getting dangerous what if ur ex is driving by?

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posted 10-11-07 09:17 PM EDT (US)     20 / 29  
You aren't really locked in Colonial. With all those banks, you can send 700 food and use Exiled Prince to get into Fortress pretty fast. That's what I do if I know I'm not going to get rushed with this strategy.

As for getting rushed at four minutes by Ottomans, an Ottoman rush at four minutes would probably consist of an explorer and a couple of villagers. He won't be rushing quite that early, but against a rush, I would suggest scouting like crazy, and if you see a forward base, convert some of that crazy amount of wood into a barracks and start making some skirmishers.

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posted 10-14-07 10:53 PM EDT (US)     21 / 29  
Another strat, and very easy to micro, is to do straight FCUK, all vills gathering food straight to age up, and send 700 and 600 wood on ageup. No lost coin, either.

But generally, both fall just shy of a standard 3 vills + 700 wood + bank wagon. Viable, but still weaker. And you're better off in the long run with the balanced eco you get out of the standard build.

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posted 10-15-07 12:48 PM EDT (US)     22 / 29  
Jaafit i take it you already put in the secs it takes vills to gather the 700 wood? also, your vills need to walk to the wood and back to were they gathered, and like this you have your banks faster (all 4 because you can send bank wagon earlier), which is 4.5 vs per bank per second you get back
posted 10-24-07 08:49 PM EDT (US)     23 / 29  
What does SSB mean, and what is a Bank Wagon?
posted 10-25-07 03:34 PM EDT (US)     24 / 29  
What does SSB mean, and what is a Bank Wagon?
SSB = South Sea Bubble (card you can send to exchange resources)
Bank wagon - a wagon that you send in age 2 that transforms into a Bank.

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posted 10-25-07 07:36 PM EDT (US)     25 / 29  
Ok... how come i dont see any of these cards? I've looked everywhere and cant find anything with the name south sea bubble, or bank wagon.
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