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Topic Subject: Spanish FF BO
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posted 10-14-08 07:08 PM EDT (US)   
A BO to a well executed Spanish FF:

Discovery:
As soon as you start out. Put villagers on food crates and que 1 villager.

First Card: 3 Villagers

Gather crates, herd hunts to TC, set gather point on hunts, and age with 15 villagers.
Treasure hunt with your explorer.

Your priorities in treasures should go like this:
Food (you can never get too much food, it will all get used up in something whether its war dogs, minutemen or 2-3 villagers), Gold (this will reduce the amount of gold you have to gather in your transition to colonial thus allowing you to gather more food), Wood (will need this for houses, place your houses in front of your TC, try tempting your opponent to take them down, allowing you more time to deal damage to his troops with TC and Tower fire)

Also, make sure you scout with your explorer to see if he's rushing or attempting to FF with you.
Age with the Tower+200 gold politician. Remember to herd your second hunts. This is crucial since you're likely to get rushed by most civs (specifically Ottos and Russians).

Transition from Discovery to Colonial:
Transition from Discovery to Colonial:
Move 4 villies from food to gold.
The rest on food. As soon as you get 250 gold (100 to age up and 150 for minutemen) switch those 4 villies to food.

Colonial:
Second Shipment: 700 gold

Que 2 villies.
Place your tower directly in front of your TC facing where the opposing army is likely to come from if you suspect a rush.
If you don't then place your tower as close to the enemy TC as possible.
Keep your explorer close to your TC so that you can train war dogs.

Third Shipment: 7 rodeleros
Don't attack with them until you have war dogs and minutemen out at the same time. If he doesn't rush you then
You should be clicking the age up button by about 5:30 and arriving by 7:00 to 7:30.

Age with the 4 Hussar politician.
By the time their rush hits you should have enough food to get minutemen and make some war dogs.
If he rushes you:
Garrison your villies.
Don't attack as soon as he starts seigeing wait for those 4 Hussar to come. If it doesn't look like they're gona get there on time then attack with what you have. I find that when you get jan rushed you need to attack with dogs+rods+minutemen early and once you age use those 4 Hussars to clean up any left over janissaries.

I find it works best if you attack with your units in this order:
7 rodeleros+war dogs
Minute men
4 hussars

All in quick succession not one after the other. Unless he's about to seige down your TC, in which case the 4 Hussars will get there later. Send in your 7 rodeleros with your war dogs and explorer (to soak up damage). After the rodeleros have made contact with the enemy get those minute men out. Your Hussars should come from the tower in front of your TC (if you still have a tower) to box your opponent in if he tries to escape from the minute men and come back when they are at a low HP.
With this you should be able to repel any rush.

Fortress:
If he rushed ungarrison your vills and chop wood so that you can build some houses for the shipments, and get a rax ASAP for skirms.

Fourth Shipment: 5 lancers

Hope this encouraged more players to try Spains powerfull FF

Good Luck

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret

[This message has been edited by Droideka_11 (edited 04-14-2009 @ 08:02 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-14-08 07:13 PM EDT (US)     1 / 121  
"Move 4 villies from food to gold.
The rest on food. As soon as you get 250 gold (100 to age up and 150 for minutemen) switch those 4 villies to food."

ok... um. this is confusing me on the recordings in the other topic you guys put like 14 vills on wood during transition so could get a tp... could you clarify?

now that there's a BO i'll try it some time
posted 10-14-08 07:26 PM EDT (US)     2 / 121  
@crazylunatic
Yeah somme puts a TP during his transition from discovery to colonial.
This will delay your FF but if you can handle the pressure of the enemy being at your base and not having resources as fast then go for it

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret

[This message has been edited by Droideka_11 (edited 10-14-2008 @ 07:50 PM).]

posted 10-14-08 08:39 PM EDT (US)     3 / 121  
You might want to put relative times you should click-age up, cause it'll probably help people see if they need improvement. Besides that, good strat!
posted 10-14-08 08:58 PM EDT (US)     4 / 121  
All you really need to know on the times is you should be hitting fortress between 7:30-8.
posted 10-15-08 03:19 AM EDT (US)     5 / 121  
I've added more to the strat you guys so take a look at it and tell me what you think

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 04:58 AM EDT (US)     6 / 121  
All in quick succession not one after the other. Send in your 7 rodeleros with your war dogs and explorer (to soak up damage). After the rodeleros have made contact with the enemy get those minute men out. All this should be done about 10 seconds before you advance to fortress. Your Hussars should come from the tower in front of your TC (if you still have a tower) to box your opponent in if he tries to escape from the minute men and come back when they are at a low HP.
With this you should be able to repel almost any rush.
Just a little observation here....

Are you really going to have already Aged up to Age 3 and have 4 Hussars to block enemy from your Age 3 Age Up when you get attacked @ 5:30 - 6 Minutes?

By 5:30 - 6 Minutes, you'd only of been starting to Age Up or still collecting your 700 Coin. You'd be no where near reaching Age 3, so, you wouldn't have your 4 Hussars to be able to block the enemy.


EDIT:
Third Shipment: 7 rodeleros
This would be when you are getting rushed with 15 Jans... So, you wouldn't have:
- 4 Hussars
- 7 Rods

to defend against the immediate rush.

[This message has been edited by James246 (edited 10-15-2008 @ 05:01 AM).]

posted 10-15-08 06:31 AM EDT (US)     7 / 121  
^^ K so obviously you've never naked FFed with Spain before.
You don't repel the rush the moment they get to your base. Your TC will be ~half HP by the time your counter attack happens.

[This message has been edited by Eside Irish (edited 10-15-2008 @ 06:32 AM).]

posted 10-15-08 09:39 AM EDT (US)     8 / 121  
@James
You dont attack as soon as the enemy starts seigeing your TC (I thought I made that clear).
You wait until 10 seconds before you age to fortress and then start sending in your troops.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 10:21 AM EDT (US)     9 / 121  
thx man, i like this, and i will certainly try it myself.
Just a question... what about trade posts/church? Are they worth putting up to power more shipments?
posted 10-15-08 11:12 AM EDT (US)     10 / 121  
@Loessli
Yeah TP's are definately woth to put up If you aren't being rushed, you could put up a TP from colonial to fortress.
As for a chrurch, I wouldn't advice building one.
The wood would better used for houses.

You could try the Quatrefage FF though.
Its in the startegy section at the top.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 03:26 PM EDT (US)     11 / 121  
What about 700 wood for your third shipment if your opponent is FFing as well?
posted 10-15-08 04:16 PM EDT (US)     12 / 121  
@jonesk
Yeah I've tried that before and Its worked out pretty well.
Send 700 wood to build a TP, barracks, and houses. Then you can build some troops whilst aging to fortress.
I don't know if this is better than sending 7 rodeleros and raiding the enemy villagers.
Its really up to your play style.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 06:18 PM EDT (US)     13 / 121  
Right, but let's say he takes houses down first, and then you don't have enough pop for the rods (assuming he takes down enough). Should you send it just before he pop-caps you and thus the rods don't get help, or should you try and secretly build more houses in the back?

[This message has been edited by Arcane Ranger (edited 10-15-2008 @ 06:19 PM).]

posted 10-15-08 06:49 PM EDT (US)     14 / 121  
enemy wouldn't have pop capped you by the time your rods arrive (spain gets quick shipments so upon reaching colonial you can probably send 2 shipments right away)


if attacked build houses in back because the only way you will survive is with your fort shipments so need open pop slots.
posted 10-15-08 06:52 PM EDT (US)     15 / 121  
@Arcane_Ranger
Have you even tried the strat?
Because if you did then you'd know that you send the 7 rodeleros card before he can even take down any houses.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 07:16 PM EDT (US)     16 / 121  
I don't really play nilla anymore, so no spanish ff for me. TAD is all around better for finding regular games, while nilla is filled with a bunch of "nr" games. It was just a q dude, I realized it was nooby as I posted it, but I'm just saying what if.

And also droideka, you and crazy lunatic are both stating different opinions. You say that you should send in 7 rods immediately, which would be crushed by any army the opponent will have. Crazy Lunatic however, states that you should build houses in the back and wait to send in the shipment. Which way is right?
posted 10-15-08 07:35 PM EDT (US)     17 / 121  
@Arcan Ranger
Actually both me and Crazy Lunatic are saying the same thing.
You will be able to ship 7 rodeleros right after 700 gold so you won't get housed.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-15-08 07:40 PM EDT (US)     18 / 121  
You send them ASAP, just because you have them doesn't mean you send them charging at your opponent's army so that they can be "crushed". You run them when your other units are about to pop out, like previously stated.
posted 10-15-08 08:20 PM EDT (US)     19 / 121  
Ah, alright. Got it.
posted 10-17-08 12:09 PM EDT (US)     20 / 121  
Housing is something I see as the weakness here. If they can keep you off of wood, and take down a house or two, then you lose your ability to send 10 pop cards in age three. How many houses do you usually get to age 3 with against a rusher? (Otto)

"You may also need a few anus guns for someone like France"
-Cheese68
posted 10-17-08 12:32 PM EDT (US)     21 / 121  
@Malavir
Housing shouldn't be problem here.
You actually want him to take down some houses that way he takes more damage from the TC and Outpost.
Even if you arrive to fortress housed it won't make a difference.
Just take out his jans with your 7 rodelros, minutemen, 4 Hussars, and war dogs.
Inmediately after ungarrison your villies and gather wood for houses.
Shouldn't be too hard with 18 villagers.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
posted 10-17-08 01:57 PM EDT (US)     22 / 121  
Also, you shouldn't be putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. Send a few vills away from your tc so that if you are rushed you are still gathering and can build houses.
posted 10-17-08 02:09 PM EDT (US)     23 / 121  
it can be important though. I forget if MM costs 6 pop, and I don't believe wardogs do, but even so you'd need 4 houses on top of TC to get cannons or lancers out.
If you have, say three houses, and I take 2 out, you need three hundred wood, plus vs to build them before you can even think about lancers or cannons. plus 200 wood for a rax if you want to diversify your army.

And would you put all 18 of your villagers on wood? that means even when you do have the houses, (and rax up) you'll need to scramble for other troops. Meanwhile I could have switched to an IOR after the rush, and be prepared.

Oh, and what do you do if the otto sends 3 hussars after rods and MM are gone.

"You may also need a few anus guns for someone like France"
-Cheese68
posted 10-17-08 02:13 PM EDT (US)     24 / 121  
@jonesk
Yeah that's true you can send some villies to a remote area on the map after you've gatheres your resources and gather wood for houses and a rax after you've repelled his rush.
Just be carefull with cav shipments like:
3 hussars
5 cossaks
Uhlans (Germans they can get all lot of these)
I would advice against gathering food far away from your TC since he can see the dead animals through the fog of war.

Its a gamble but if your lucky then go for it

@Malavir
I forget if MM costs 6 pop,

MM dont cost pop
If you have, say three houses, and I take 2 out, you need three hundred wood, plus vs to build them before you can even think about lancers or cannons.
What your not taking into account is the vs required to get a sizable janissary force to do this and that you will be screwed once the mm, 7 rods, wardogs, and 4 hussars come out.
Meanwhile I could have switched to an IOR after the rush, and be prepared.
Be prepared to get what? Abus? Hussars?
With the right micro the spanish player can defeat any of these combos.
Besides you can't just switch into an IOR since you need to get at least 2 tps in your transition to colonial and to have researched stage coach.
Oh, and what do you do if the otto sends 3 hussars after rods and MM are gone
Why would they be gone?
Even if you kill them I can just as easily ship 9 rodeleros.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret

[This message has been edited by Droideka_11 (edited 10-17-2008 @ 03:20 PM).]

posted 10-30-08 08:42 AM EDT (US)     25 / 121  
MM dont cost pop
They do, but you can send them even if you are housed.

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
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