Aztec Rush Bluff/Semi FF War Machine - Age of Empires III Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Aztec Rush Bluff/Semi FF War Machine

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DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 01:10 AM EDT (US)

I don't see people do an Aztec FF on ESO, so I figured id give it a try. I have two records from games today included, very recent, and I just tried it today for the very first time .(2-0 with it so far

)

The object of this strategy is to advance to age 2 before your opponent, send a unit card (10 Mace) to bluff a rush, do some damage to their eco and set them on defense, and then use this time as they recover to get to age 3 quick as you can, which they probably least expect from you at this point.

Your deck should be wired to have a large age 3 army provided by shipments ( Aztec have probably the most free military units available, Alot of their cards are unit ships). The total age 3 line-up of my deck includes 73, including 10 Elite Skull Knights, very powerful units, especially early on in the game. (think spahi or curaisser, yet without the anti-cav bonus from other units)

ok so heres a look at what the deck I used looks like:

<a href="http://forums.heavengames.com/redir/http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/364/screen27qn.jpg" target=_blank>[JPEG, (404.95 KB)]</a>

heres the replay of the first game I tried it on:

http://www.mediafire.com/?uenynjicfmn

**In this game, I played a Brit. I think his strat at first was going to be a FF, but he shifted his priorities to defense and sending the 6 musket card early thanx to the rush bluff. Advanced kinda slow to age 3, and left myself quite vulnerable for some time (bad mistake)**

*EDIT* watch the one below first! I pulled it off more systematically and it sets a better example. my second game using it with a revised deck, another win:

http://www.mediafire.com/?onz5dzjnd2n

**In this game, I played vs a french who seen the early mace, and logically, spammed hussars to counter me. He didn't expect a FF and even just the 3 skullz put up a fight vs 10 hussar and made them retreat.Ended up losing a lot of my vills to raids but this is fine as your military can keep those units coming like a train.I advanced much quicker in this match (I believe age 3 around 730 8 mins) and this really helped, as his colonial army was no match for mine, even with massed expensive hussar cav...After watching this game, I looked at the post game stats and noticed he gathered 12,000 resources compared to my 6,000. Thats an economy with DOUBLE my production! yet, I still triumph thru pure military might, so early in the game**

Revised Deck used in this game can be seen here:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1430/screen29w.jpg

the key here is to kill a few vills early, make them waste res on minute men, and just generally slow things down a bit for them.

Your main problem is going to be getting wood for houses so you don't get housed once in age 3.

This strat is very similar to that of its European counterparts who use mercantilism to supply the units, except the Aztecs don't really require this thanks to the XP bonus from the war chief, and "gift dance" at the fire.

Once you have 400 gold send the 600 gold shipment as your second card (10 Mace was first) during the transition to age 2 you should of mined about 400 gold, and then shifted all vills to food to try and get the earliest age 3 you can. I choose 3 skull knights for my advance, yet you can choose the 2 instead for age 2 if you suspect early cav raids. (german free uhlans) Again, as with any strat, adjust to your BO to counter your opponent best you can.

Once you have 1000 gold, Id say its best to just stay away from it all together. You should shift your focus to either:

1**. Food to advance

-or- if your already in position to advance:

1. wood for houses
2. food for constant vill production in age 3
3. dance at fire for more xp trickle to send units

your already going to be at risk as it is with a weak eco before you get to age 3, so dont waste time trying to mine gold as its a slow benefit and this strat really doesn't allow too much economic growth, which is why its called a "War Machine". Your game shouldn't last long enough for the opponent to get to age 4, or even allow them to be in age 3 unless they FF'd with you. If it does, your at a disadvantage and your steam will soon burn out.

You should hit age 3 with about 2 or 3 ships stocked, and you can send whatever units in the particular order you think will counter your enemy best. I think skull knights and Mace perform very well mixed in with some coyote runners.

In just three cards you can have:

13 Mace
10 Coyote Runners
7 Elite Skull Knights
*EDIT* Yes a 7 skull knight card would be super OP lol, let me further describe, you should have 3 already from choosing "Warrior" as your age 3 advance option, and THEN send the 4 skull knight card, giving you 7.

[Considering you chose Warrior as age 3 advance option]

30 Units that effectively counter ANYTHING your opponent can throw at you.

Coyotes are good vs Artillery, Archers and Skirms, or to raid villies.

Mace will be good support units behind Skull Knights to pick off HI from a distance

Skull Knights will bear the brunt of your enemies attack and be used as meat shields and counter-cav. as an added bonus their siege is sick, so once the enemies army is wiped out you can easily destroy their town.

You pretty much should have an inexhaustible supply of unit ships if you are doing things right, and this is a good indication you are. In the record, I pulled off a win and didn't even have a single war hut until like 12 mins in the game or so.

Since this was the first time I tried it, I dont think I did it half as efficiently as I could of. If I could revise it, Id add more Age 2 Unit cards to further bluff the rush, as this is a very important part of this strat. I believe its the main reason I won. Notice how he could of stomped me if he retaliated, but was probably confused thinking I had more units because I aged earlier. This kicked him into survival mode instead of attack. To further improve on it, since I had some free time with two ships stacked up I could of sent three trade posts to further accumulate XP to send units once in age 3, that AND a combination of 3 WP doing gift dance at my fire.

Again, you can adjust this strat many ways to your liking, but I just wanted to post a sample of it and see what people thought.

Thanks everybody for reading and good luck with it if you wish to try it! =)

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 04:28 AM).]

Author

Replies:

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-18-09 01:23 AM EDT (US) 1 / 30

The total age 3 line-up of my deck includes 73, including 9 Elite Skull Knights, very powerful units, especially early on in the game. (think spahi or curaisser, yet without the anti-cav bonus from other units)

they don't have a 9 SK unit shipment in fortress, that would be super super super super super super x100 OP

7 Elite Skull Knights

? not a shipment either. IIRC they only have like a 3 or 4 SK shipment in age 3?

Nevertheless sounds like a pretty interesting approach. Maybe try and include more info on your discovery age (firepit on xp? or fertility? # of vills age up, type of age up?, etc.)

Also a suggestion would be to perhaps try sending 5 coyote (or 6 puma) instead of 9 mace as coyote are obviously better raiders and puma can siege houses pretty fast to irritate (:O)
IMO age to colonial with fast age and go to fort with skull knights as the fast age to colonial will give a more "rushy" impression and the age up to fortress skull knights really rock XD (alternatively you may want to try aging with the fortress politician that gives you noble hut or the colonial that gives you war hut so then you can forward your shipments from there)

oh and also, why are you sending 9 mace when you can send 10 mace XD XD (assuming RE patch)

edit: just a speculation, but if you fast age to colonial you could try sending gold first and then send units after and get a faster age up time and still be able to raid/harass at a decent time perhaps :O

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CRaZYLUnATiC (edited 09-18-2009 @ 01:27 AM).]

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 02:07 AM EDT (US) 2 / 30

yes you got me on a typo!

, definately 10 mace instead of 9, but both can be included no prob in this strat.

your right however, choose the fast advance option first to bluff the rush further!

I also added a edit to show how I got 7 Skull Knights. My deck actually allows for 10 total in age 3. (4+3 from ships, 3 from advance)

and yes, there are many options once you hit age 2.
I choose the 10 mace card.
the reasons I choose this one first is:

1. amount of units (10), will likely scare the opponent more then just 5.
2. 30 percent resistance to ranged (TC Fire and minute men are your ONLY threat at this point)
3. Can get out of TC fire range yet still do damage to eco and kill vills, making them very pesky. also Id like to add, all euro types of vills resist .20 melee, but not ranged, with the exception of french's CDB's, so none of their attack is wasted on vills.

as for early start, I go kinda unorthadox and shift my 1 WP to "gift dance" right from the start instead of fertility. This should allow around 2-3 ships stocked by the time you hit age 3 [provided you sent 10 mace and 600 gold first]

I think I advanced with about 10 maybe 11 vills, idk but i know i hit age 2 at 3 mins exactly, way earlier then my opponent and enough to have 10 mace in his base harrassing vills before the 4 min mark. just think if i sent spears, i could totally burn down their rax or any houses in construction at this point.

I admit you have a very weak early eco with this deck and its a gamble, but it can pay off if you survive long enough to age 3. But its no different then a Euro Mercantilism FF, because they rely on surviving to get those units out also. However it differs from this strat in that you atleast throw something at the enemy, so even if they themselves are rushing, you will have them on their heels and less prepared to attack you, and if they are FF'ing, you will slow it down drastically picking off vills trying to gather from those crates.

I like this because if your on a poor map with bad hunt or low resources and far distances to get them, you can ALWAYS resort back to your fire as your main income as long as you keep enough wood for houses and just enough for vill production on food. This will allow you to accumulate troops through gift dance as if you had way more economic power then you actually do.

remember though, you cant do this forever as shipments get harder and harder to get as the game goes on, which is why I say your steam will run out if you dont kill the opponent effectively with the first batch of say... 5 shipments from age 3.

I keep my mace and skullz teamed together because cav can really rip through exposed maces. However,keep them close and skullz rip thru cav just about more effeciently then anything else available in age 3, except ronin for some civs.

[think 75 damage (25x3 with bonus, with area of two) from each swing, and its going to hit about 3 units at once, if my math is right thats about 225 damage a swing so 5 hussars wont last for 3 seconds]

instead of reading about it, lol just watch it in effect! this guy tried to spam brit muskets as a last line of defense, threw in some hussars probably thinking i was gonna come with all mace, and skull knights sliced through his muskets and cav like bread. It was very nasty, I think I lost 2 or 3 skull knights to his like 40 muskets he lost.

A Top 500 1v1 sup player (when i feel like it )
ESO NAME : DrizzyDrops PR:21 2nd Lieut.
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[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 02:41 AM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-18-09 02:30 AM EDT (US) 3 / 30

I think I advanced with about 10 maybe 11 vills, idk but i know i hit age 2 at 3 mins exactly, way earlier then my opponent and enough to have 10 mace in his base harrassing vills before the 4 min mark. just think if i sent spears, i could totally burn down their rax or any houses in construction at this point.

so you didn't send 3 vills? :O

IMO that's a bad idea, at least age with 15

QUACK

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 02:33 AM EDT (US) 4 / 30

yes, 3 vills would help most likely. IDK though I just favor the extra military card once in age 3, or you can send 9 mace too effectively giving you 19 units around 4:30 5 mins. This would be smart because it would force them to field some expensive cav. which will get destroyed easily soon as you hit age 3 and get the 3 skullz from advancing.

if it makes you feel better the 10 mace i sent picked off about 4 vills so I make up for losing 3 vills by killing 4///

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 02:35 AM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-18-09 03:35 AM EDT (US) 5 / 30

alright so the brit player you played, i don't even want to comment on his playing

anyway i tried a practice game vs CPU (because nobody was on

)

and pretty much i did a 15 villie age up w/ fast age then did SK age up to 3

An integral part that you did not think of is to use the BB's! I got your army a bit faster ( due to better eco so faster fortress time) +9 JPK from 1st and 2nd BB from TC
[JPEG, (417.41 KB)]
as you can see, the BB's really help out a LOT (not to mention getting some nice converted treasure guardians yay i got 5 monkey treasure in that game 111)
oh and BTW not sure why, but for some reason the menu is up so covered the time but i think it was around 10 mins give or take

Also 5 coyote is going to be much more effective (unless vs HI spam) since 5 coy= 5 pop which allows you to make villagers meanwhile by sending 10 mace you're pretty much out of pop until you start aging for fortress and build a house

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CRaZYLUnATiC (edited 09-18-2009 @ 03:37 AM).]

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 03:56 AM EDT (US) 6 / 30

very true, some great points you have there. totally forgot about the BB's. I would recommend getting the one from the house and tc. If you do it last minute right before you attack at about 9-12 mins it should give you a quite large army combined with the ships, not only that, but it will be as versatile (or non versatile) as you want it to be. I tried your idea (minus the three vil card) vs. the comp and this is what I came up with:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/724/screen34c.jpg

about 47 units with a counter for EVERY unit in the game at 12 mins.This is what I love about this strat. Theres no guesswork involved, you can have a powerful army, without even having to worry about having a weak point. I already proved that even a french eco pumping on all its cylinders early in the game cannot keep up with the unit production of even just 15 vills a fire and NO market. Hell if you want you could even send the market BB, the equivalent to mercantilism for euro civs, and get like 5 ships by age 3.

lmao @ the screen. no doubt, your 9 prowl knights that early would give any hand cav a hell of a fight. In your particular situation, I would team the 13 mace and 9 JPK's together, and stealth the JPK's. I love when opponents throw their cav away like this thinking its just 13 little mace helplessly stranded.

but I would scratch the ERK's and try to get 10 skulls out first tho IMO. Way more all around effective and they can kill LI, HI, Cav and buildings, where as ERK's have low siege and no bonus vs LI.OMG they are so op lol! check the second record i put up its really short lol it totally dominated a hussar spam with only the 3 Skullz from advancing!

**it could be considered to send the 3 WP and do a WP generation at the fire while sending ALL vills to fire until you have 10 and THEN attack. shifting the fire to increase attack will make your army extremely more effective, giving you 40% with 25 @ fire including 10 WP. You should no doubt have 15 vills to dance at the fire by the time you are ready to mount a major attack.ESPECIALLY if you still dont have a war hut up yet, I mean what good are any resources going to do you at this point, you only need wood to keep building houses and a little food to keep building vills. After key battles or hit and run you can switch it to heal mode, with 10 WP on fire this should be a huge benefit to you if the enemy is still in Age 2. This will make your first army ever victorious.I don't think you will even need such a thing as a eco with this and your original army. Not to mention as your generating more WP you can switch it back to gift dance once you have 10 and get this army out even faster.**

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 05:28 AM).]

dOPplesaurus
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 03:54 PM EDT (US) 7 / 30

You WILL need ERKs for anticav, as jaguars aren't too effective vs them, and skulls are easily microed out.

Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ-The Unofficial AoE3H Clan

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 04:24 PM EDT (US) 8 / 30

no ERK's necessary. watch the second record. VS ALL CAV (literally) 7 skull knights ripped them to shreds.

and now I have a third record of this strat (3-0 with it :P)

(vs one of HG forums TE members I think Lord Henry??? lol sorry Lord Henry but you made a good lab rat to test this strat on and he asked I posted it here)

third record available here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nnt0z3daqx0

the third record implements more usage of the fire and shows just how crucial it can be to this strat. You can have HALF the vills and res of your opponent, mislead them to believing your weak, and crush them with pure military power.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 04:25 PM).]

dOPplesaurus
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 05:33 PM EDT (US) 9 / 30

Good players won't run cav right into your skulls.

Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ-The Unofficial AoE3H Clan

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-18-09 06:15 PM EDT (US) 10 / 30

i did straight ff today (sent 3 WP after gold for uber firepit) and had great success vs decent opponents who frequently post here :O

oh but BTW i do get a proper eco 15 vill -->colonial followed by more vills in colonial before fortress

Good players won't run cav right into your skulls.

he also ran his muskets into skulls also. Oh, and BTW why was he making muskets for the first 10 minutes vs an aztec?

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CRaZYLUnATiC (edited 09-18-2009 @ 06:18 PM).]

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 07:38 PM EDT (US) 11 / 30

fine. LOL. have it your way good players. dont run your cav into my skulls.haha it just doesn't work like that. What else are you going to do with the cav??? You CANT raid me (proven in the records)....and Ill run my skulls into your base and rip it down including your little pretty stable where that cav comes from. Its only so long before that cav is going to have to come to its demise. Hit and Run my skulls? very unlikely.Im no dummy, Im not gunna throw them at you carelessly and also at this time in the game, the only way your going to have skirms is if you are French [early skirmz card] or Dutch, or if you did a FF...and NO way are you going to have Military Drummers yet....and if they go heavy on xbows or Long Bows this is easily countered with 17 free coyote runners. try and hit and run those buddy. Got a player that loves to micro them out? use this to their disadvantage just leave my skulls on stand ground as you focus fire on em and try to kill them faster then they regenerate health thanx to the fire, meanwhile your gettin picked off by mace and coys...Hey ill trade 2 or 3 skulls for your entire army any day.

Yeah I also tried it in a Pure FF form today too, although I like sending the military card first actually. Definately fools your opponent and that early pressure will get him to either:

A. Garrison Vills
B. Lose a Couple Vills
C. Waste Res on Minute Men im gunna run away from anyways
D. Believe your coming with a early rush and shift focus to surviving rather then attacking you

and who knows what the brit was thinking lol...he must of been really scared or something and just wanted to get units out ASAP. notice he sent the 200 gold and outpost lmao so he could make muskets. Even just ALL mace coulda dominated him.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 08:11 PM).]

Conquerer_MAG
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 07:57 PM EDT (US) 12 / 30

Drizzy, that post is why you are still an MS...

GR acc name: Ultraviolet [�eg��n]
'hey l0bst0r3r!! r u j3w!sH ?? c@n U t3LL m3 wH3r3 t0 g3t s0m3 k0sH0r r3c!p3s?
i l!k3 k0sh0r f00d th3r3's a j00ish r3st4ur4nt 4r0uNd t3h c0rn0r but it's s0 3xp3ns!v3'
-l33th4x0r

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-18-09 08:12 PM EDT (US) 13 / 30

fine. LOL. have it your way good players. dont run your cav into my skulls.haha it just doesn't work like that. What else are you going to do with the cav??? You CANT raid me (proven in the records)....and Ill run my skulls into your base and rip it down including your little pretty stable where that cav comes from. Its only so long before that cav is going to have to come to its demise. Hit and Run my skulls? very unlikely.Im no dummy, Im not gunna throw them at you carelessly and also at this time in the game, the only way your going to have skirms is if you are French or Dutch, or if you did a FF...and NO way are you going to have Military Drummers yet....and if they go heavy on xbows or Long Bows this is easily countered with 17 free coyote runners. try and hit and run those buddy. Got a player that loves to micro them out? use this to their disadvantage just leave my skulls on stand ground as you focus fire on em and try to kill them faster then they regenerate health thanx to the fire, meanwhile your gettin picked off by mace and coys...Hey ill trade 2 or 3 skulls for your entire army any day.

dude we're talking 10/11 mins (IIRC 12 mins in 1st rec) so they can easily have 2 falc shipment+ infantry+ some cav as well.

What the brit player did incorrectly in that game was to go out and attack your army. He had sent CM so he should have garissoned TC and tried to pick off SK with TC fire as much as possible and then popped MM and focused fire SK w/ musks/CM while hussar attacking rest. He probably could have won that battle TBH if he had effectively used MM.

QUACK

dOPplesaurus
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 08:41 PM EDT (US) 14 / 30

You CANT raid me (proven in the records).

Please tell me why, as I can't watch the records atm.

Ill run my skulls into your base and rip it down including your little pretty stable where that cav comes from

Because I'll have no units to protect it.

Hit and Run my skulls? very unlikely.Im no dummy, Im not gunna throw them at you carelessly and also at this time in the game

It's called focus fire, you should be able to kill 2-3 skulls per volley.

and if they go heavy on xbows or Long Bows this is easily countered with 17 free coyote runners. try and hit and run those buddy.

It's called pikes.

Got a player that loves to micro them out?

i.e, anyone above the rank of lieutenant?

use this to their disadvantage just leave my skulls on stand ground as you focus fire on em and try to kill them faster then they regenerate health thanx to the fire

Skulls don't regenerate hp, and putting them on stand ground mode certainly won't accomplish anything.

Yeah I also tried it in a Pure FF form today too, although I like sending the military card first actually. Definately fools your opponent and that early pressure will get him to either:
A. Garrison Vills
B. Lose a Couple Vills
C. Waste Res on Minute Men im gunna run away from anyways
D. Believe your coming with a early rush and shift focus to surviving rather then attacking you

A: Yes
B: Maybe
C: Certainly not
D: People expect aztec to rush anyway, but they will certainly be suspicious of a FF if they don't see anything after 10 mace

notice he sent the 200 gold and outpost lmao so he could make muskets.

All brits age up with that.

Anyway this isn't a bad strat, and it can certainly work very effectively, but I think you are overestimating the power of skull knights. (Don't worry, I used to as well; all I did was FI and spam 100 worth's pop of FU skulls because they were so cool) If you replace one or two of those shipments with mace/coyote or such you'll find the strat will be that much more effective. Oh, and also remember to always upgrade your units.

Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ-The Unofficial AoE3H Clan

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-18-09 09:58 PM EDT (US) 15 / 30

yes I know the skull knights dont regenerate health by themselves. Your in age 3 remember, you can use the fire with the healing dance or whatever its called and with 10 WP and 15 villagers its sick. Enough so that even with a reasonable amount of bows firing on the knights (who will nonstop be regenerating because on stand ground) by the time they can pick them all off they have sacrificed their whole army to coys/mace/JPK's all at once....ill flank your artillery kill the cannons and finish your archers still trying to kill the skull knights, and mace will rip ur muskets to shreds...end of story. Its really a strat that seams difficult to explain because it sounds plain stupid and risky but its very powerful in the right hands.

IMO - A Good player using this strat > ANYTHING brits can throw at you....

And lmao @ "focus fire" from tc on the skull knights.
I'd like to add I watch the health of all my units and I would notice what you are doing. Theres two things I can now do to counter your "TC" plan.

1. just back out of the TC's range before it can kill me (90 or so Max attack from tc with 10 vills trying to kill something with 375 HP, and stand ground regenerate him using fire and come right back...)
2. Switch to "cover mode" formation with the one you are shooting, and make the process to kill just 1 even longer for you.

here I have photo proof to show how ineffective this would be. Heres a picture of The comp having TWO outposts AND his tc fire on one skull knight standing still. The tcs ranged was at 63 and the outposts are each 30 thats 120 MORE then a full tc any day. I left my fire on regeneration and had him stand still in the middle of all this gunfire.

First photo, is when i walked in there he got hit pretty bad but thats fine he lived.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4827/screen38w.jpg

and look at the hit points and clock in this one!
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6097/screen40g.jpg

five seconds later, STILL getting fired upon by tc with 63 attack and two outposts at 30 each. Notice he has MORE health then he just had before! im sorry to say this, but your villies garrisoned in the tc will be fighting a losing battle my friend, and ill just do this with ALL of them so you cant get one. greedy me I know right. the simplicity of this tactic outweighs your opponents ability to micro. Your not chasing him so he CANT hit and run, and meanwhile all that time he will waste trying to kill just a few units he will be losing way more to your mace coys and JPK/ERK

21
21
21
21

and I think you missed that I said skull knights were more or less just the meatshield of the army, not the main focus. I said originally its more important to get out those coys and mace for support and THEN ship the skulls, unless facing a cav spam.

"dude we're talking 10/11 mins (IIRC 12 mins in 1st rec) so they can easily have 2 falc shipment+ infantry+ some cav as well. "

10 Coyotes> 2 Falc and LI
13-24 Mace> INF.
Skulls & JPK -or- ERK> CAV

simple as that.

I counter everything with that combination hands down. Or I also include the 6 Arrow Knight Card in case I got somebody turtling or trying to defend with artillery. just bump n run the art to death and peck off his towers from safe. Dare you to send some hand cav at me too.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-18-2009 @ 10:59 PM).]

Conquerer_MAG
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 00:38 AM EDT (US) 16 / 30

Um... do you actually understand the concept of micro? It's pretty much equally as important as what units you have, if not moreso.

"10 coyotes > 2 falcs and LI"

First of all, that's not even really true... If I have 15 skirms along with those falcs, it'd be quite hard for you to take out even both my falcs, considering I can fire on you while you are running towards me, and I believe skirms get a bonus against coyotes.

Second, who makes LI + cannons? Any player who understands the counter system would make HI / cannons, or HI + LI / cannons, not just LI / cannon, or even RC + cannon. LI + cannon is not only redundant, but that entire combo is countered by cav.

"here i have photo proof to shw you how ineffective this would be"

You really aren't understanding how people play this game. No one only uses TC fire or outposts. If I have 15 skirms plus TC fire, I can focus fire on your skirms and they WILL go down. It's really not debatable any further than that. It's true.

"10 coyotes> 2 falcs and LI
13-24 maces > INF.
Skulls & JPK -or- JPK> cav.

simple as that."

Yeah. So? Only players who, again, don't understand the game, make one unit only. Everything should have at least 2 unit combos in age 2 or 3 (more in age 4), and if you have been using this to good success vs. players that use only one unit, then stop noob bashing.

And when both players use good, strong combos, do you know what the battles come down to? That micro you claim "doesn't matter."

Honestly, you need to stop arguing in a rude way against the players here - most of them are better than you. Not to mention, you are arguing something that is pretty well established as true.

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-19-09 00:58 AM EDT (US) 17 / 30

well that guy you played sent CM so his TC could technically do 100+ damage thus killing a SK in 2/3 hits (not including outpost he had as well)

Your in age 3 remember, you can use the fire with the healing dance or whatever its called and with 10 WP and 15 villagers its sick.

where did the 10 WP come from? or the 15 vills for that matter since you did a 11 vill age up and still need to gather wood for housing/food/gold for BB :O
Also aztecs don't have siege dance, that's sioux.

IMO - A Good player using this strat > ANYTHING brits can throw at you....

well no not really, perhaps if you do it a bit more eco wise (like what i suggested), but if you did it like how you did in the first recording a good brit player will win since your eco is extremely sucky while they can easily have 40+ vills+ a nice big army by the time you attacked.
In general aztecs are strong vs brits though IMO.

10 Coyotes> 2 Falc and LI
13-24 Mace> INF.
Skulls & JPK -or- ERK> CAV

30 lbows+ 10 pikes+ tc fire+ age up outpost+ MM >>>> whatever you have at that time.

As dopple said, it's a good and interesting strategy, but you're over rating it too much

a normal full out aztec rush/harassment is probably stronger vs most civs than this IMO.

First of all, that's not even really true... If I have 15 skirms along with those falcs, it'd be quite hard for you to take out even both my falcs, considering I can fire on you while you are running towards me, and I believe skirms get a bonus against coyotes.

no they don't, the get bonus vs HI and ranged cav, not against coyotes which are LI

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CRaZYLUnATiC (edited 09-19-2009 @ 01:00 AM).]

Conquerer_MAG
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 01:16 AM EDT (US) 18 / 30

Ah, sorry. Can someone explain what LI actually means in TAD/TWC? Like I know it's coyotes (and rods?), but I don't know what counters them... I still think that skirms don't get resisted by coyotes though, since they still have the infantry tag, sam with cannons, no? I'm confused about those little buggers :/

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 09-19-09 02:10 AM EDT (US) 19 / 30

Light infantry on TWC/TAD are pretty much pseudo cav and you use them/counter them the same way as you would Heavy cav. It's really confusing because i don't think LI (such as coyote and disciples) get an infantry tag in the way that abus guns/cannons counter them, so pretty much just think of them as cav to not get confused XD

QUACK

Mariomasta RJK
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 10:49 AM EDT (US) 20 / 30

What I would do is age to 2 with 2 skull knights to further bluff the rush, protect bs early cav, and instead of aging 3 skulls, send 800 wood for 2nd tc, boom with getting warrior priests to fertility dance, and build up your army. This will allow a better fortress age, and an even better rush bluff / cav protection( when pll expect a rush, they usually make raiding cav to force a retreat. )

DISTISOP
ESO: Blitzkrieg_Mario
Prefered civs: Hell, I like them all.
Rank: TWC PR 18 (master sergeant) TAD PR 17, Vanilla PR 12
Clan: Triple Entente
Favorite games: Dofus, AoE 3, Tremulous, CoD 4, SSBB, Urban Terror

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 12:35 PM EDT (US) 21 / 30

15 skirmz will most likely get dominated by 10 coyotes. go in the scenario edit and try it. and its inneffective to try and hit and run when theres this much because by the time you can kill all of them you lost all your skirms anyways. My army is built for opponents who have a variety. thats what I EXPECT. I have variety to. And trust me, your not the only one who can micro, I can just as well. No doubt my mace will be picking off your pikes and HI. No doubt my coys will flank the weaker archers and exposed artillery. and no doubt my skulls are gonna be waitin for cav to flank me (not out in the open gettin shot)I didn't say its unimportant, I said "TC fire" wise, yes its unimportant.

and on another note: Eco Shmeco

it may be important if you want the game to last more than 15 minutes, but ALL the times i've used this strat, Ive had HALF the villies, HALF the gathered resources, and still walked into their base and stomped them. Granted I havent tried it on anybody higher then PR20 yet, but the ones I did were no lower then PR17 so Im NOT noob bashing, thats people on MY LEVEL.

and if your a player who likes an eco, just use the 3 vill card first, include the 8 vill and 1000 wood card, get that 2nd tc up, during transition to age 3 shift all vills to fire to generate 10 WP and now you can fertility boom with 2tcs pumping out at 320 percent more then normal. gauranteed to surpass a british manor boom in time.

so 3-0 with it on people MY LEVEL. now i just need to try it on a leuit so people can stop bashing my theory like its nonsense and realize that even a skilled player will have some trouble with it. then I will prove that I can win with it as the UNDERDOG in the game.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-19-2009 @ 12:53 PM).]

dOPplesaurus
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 12:39 PM EDT (US) 22 / 30

So 3 minutes to kill someone, I don't like those odds :P

Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ-The Unofficial AoE3H Clan

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 12:44 PM EDT (US) 23 / 30

hmm thats a good theory mario..but it takes longer to advance when using the 2 skull knights first. IMO a very important part of this strat is hitting age 2 before your enemy. You need some time where he's still a little defenseless at home to bother vills with either coy's or mace as your 1st/2nd ship

it can be either or 3 vills or a unit ship...

Id also like to note I tried this in a team game yesterday (2v2) and it didnt work AS good as a 1v1. I got doubled and my partner (of course) didnt help on time. I still totally destroyed one players economy however, but on the plus side, it showed just how FAST your eco can recover in this worst case scenario that your one and only army got stomped and you now have no war hut or an eco. I suggest goin really food heavy (15+ vills on food) and just use the fertility dance to pump out as many vills as you can. if you can get up that 2nd tc great because it took me like 2 minutes of playing time to completely catch my eco up to everybody elses and even surpass them.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-19-2009 @ 12:48 PM).]

Mariomasta RJK
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 08:20 PM EDT (US) 24 / 30

I used this, did it my way, cept made AK and made less coyotes. It works much better

DrizzyDrops
Skirmisher

posted 09-19-09 11:57 PM EDT (US) 25 / 30

^^^
yeah AK would give you the upper hand especially since your only going to have about 3-7 skulls, and they are the majority of your anti cavalry force. If you send them out to attack and they get picked off, your mace would be defenseless. AK will allow you to sit back, do some damage, and let the enemy come to you.

can you give me your BO mario? every time ive done a FF with aztec ive found it hard to get out a nobles hut, train some AK and avoid getting housed at the same time.

sending the AK BB and including the card for 1000 gold that gives you 10? (and a improvement to all actions damage) would allow you to have 15-16-17 pretty quick

haha when I get my army ready around like 11-12 mins i come like a wrecking ball and just kill everything in my path. Treasure gaurdians too, because the triple xp bonus is nice.

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 09-20-2009 @ 00:08 AM).]

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