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Topic Subject: SpaColi!
posted 11-10-09 03:10 PM EDT (US)   
SpaColi!

Introduction:

Interesting title, that means interesting strat!!

Nah, this is actually just a pretty standard build, but it's important to write this one. Too many people think that Spain is a Fortress civ, when they fair very well in colonial. Very, very well.

The goal here will be to use Spain in colonial, which is "weird". We'll find that Spain does great in colonial, the faster shipments can be used to your advantage quite well. Down to business.

In this strat we're going to favour an econ-heavy strat, to the detriment of a strong military mass. This is a good strat for developing your defensive play, an important aspect if you're looking to improve your play.

Part I

Early Macro:

There's not a lot to say. You're basically going to age with 16 villagers, and you'll be treasure hunting with your explorer and war dog. You know how it goes, hunt, make vills, hunt, make vills, and ship 3 vills. Standard stuff. Age with the tower and 200 coin (I may experiment with 500f, but I like my tower).

After you've started aging, which is to say during the transition, you'll be allocating 9 or 10 vills to wood. Depending on the coin treasure you got, allocate 1 or 2 vills to coin. You're only going to need 50 coin. Build a market, get the first three techs. Simple and painless. Gather 200w asap.

When you have those, switch 2 vills to coin, 6 or 5 on wood, and the rest on food. Be sure to queue a villy before you age, and if you have treasure hunted enough, you'll already have a shipment ready.

Treasures:

We can probably affirm that treasure hunting is a to-do with every civ, in every match up, on every map. But with Spain, this to-do can quickly become an important bonus. Your war dogs are a civ bonus that can reap quite a lot of benefits if you're smart and stylish. You start with one. You can very easily gather all the little treasures. Do it. Even if they're insignificant (40 food for 1 coyote), even they're plain useless (2 sheep? FRUIT YOU I DUN WAN YO SHEEP YA DUMB OUTLAWS)(sorry my parentheses tend to get a little out of hand, i try to work on that..), go ahead and gather them. The XP you get from killing Guardians makes your next shipment come that much faster. It can be quite the advantage to send your second colonial card right after the first one.

Now if you find a big XP treasure. Go for it. 320 XP for Spain is another shipment right then and now. You're aging, you have 400f.. make 4 other dogs! 5 dogs and 1 explorer vs 4 Riders. Kill them. Reap the benefits. It's so sexy. Your dogs can later serve with your colonial army. Not bad eh?

Part II

Early Macro:

Ok so you've aged. You should have 200w ready. Use it to build a rax. Put your tower somewhere where it gives LOS and where it will cover your villagers. Preferably, in the range of your TC fire. Immediately send 5 villagers. The faster you do these steps, the better. It was important to queue a villager before sending 5 villagers because you don't get idle TC time. As soon as you get 100w, build a house. Build it fast, with two vills (if you want to play with style).

When your rax and house are up, queue a musk and another villager. Your second shipment will hopefully be ready quite soon. Send 700w. In the mean time, make another batch of musk and more vills. The 5 villager shipment is a strong economic boost. We'll be boosting that boost. First though, when you 5 wood vills gather another 125w, build a house and allocate 1 to food and 4 to coin. You'll have most of your vills on food and a handful on coin, with 700w coming.

Gather than 700w, and use it in the following manner:
-125w and 200w for the second coin and food upgrades at the market.
-200w for a stable
-175w + 25w (the 25w you gathered earlier) for 2 houses.

Now, you're going to queue up a hussar and you're going to keep constant villy production. Don't make any musks at the moment. You won't need any, since you have 9 or 10 musks. Your next shipment is up to you. Make as many hussars with the resources you have available.

At this point your opponent may or may not have started attacking you. Make sure you built your rax and stable behind your TC. Make dogs, stick close to the TC (you should have herded your hunts behind your TC), you have musks. You keep cool. If he pushes, you pop MM and you defend. Play carefully, but make sure he pays for it if he comes in at this point. You should have a hussar queued and a musket queued. If he's HI heavy, finish the musket batch. If he has RI, finish the hussar batch. Defend. Persevere. Keep your villagers. Alive.

After Early Macro:

This is where I stop saying "do this" and "do that" and "make this". Where are you at? I have disclosed the following screen shot:

http://img1.imagilive.com/1109/screen4.jpg

You have:
-26 vills, or 30, if you sent 4 vills
-4 Hussars, 9 Musks, 6 Rods, 1 dog, 1 explorer. Group these as you want. If you went 4 vills, you don't have 6 rods.
-Both Food upgrades, both coin upgrades.
-6 houses and a TC.
-1 shipment

At 7:39. In Colonial. As Spain. Da fK? That's not too bad now is it??!

What you do now is up to you, but it is especially up to your opponent. SCOUT! Your shipment I recommend you use on either 4 vills or 6 Rods, giving you a card order of 3 vills, 5 vills, 700w, 4vills/6rods, 4 vills/6rods. But of course feel free to branch off to what you need or feel you're better off with.

If you opponent went rushy and started bothering you early you can't be arsed thinking about what to do, you're probably busy defending your god damn town from the god damn Loch Ness Monster, with his god damn tree fity enemy army (sorry got a little mixed up there ._.). If he rushed, and you beat him off, you have the advantage of a stronger eco and an army.

If not, it's time to bring the fight to him. Go in there, raid, scout, use hussars, be annoying, plunder, booty, rawr around but DO SOMETHIN! You have a strong, upgrade 30 vill econ, you're going to be pumping units! You can afford to be aggressive, use that to go for the win.

By the way, if you feel that he's going heavy on infantry, you can take a number of vills off of food and coin (try to take an equal number from both resources) and get the wood upgrade from the market. Commence making Xbows.

Later on in the game, you can use 8 pikes to strengthen your army, economic theory to strengthen your economy or 700 coin to sling yourself to fortress. And when you hit Fortress, with a strong eco, a stable up, a rax up, shipments ready to be spammed, you can be sure that if you did well before you're going to a force to reckon with. Up to you how to play in Fortress. I recommend going to Fortress if you can't finish off your opponent clean in colonial. Maintain pressure with what you have if possible, but you may find yourself being forced to play defensively to age without losing.

This is where you begin using the stronger, but harder strats that are strong in the long run but require skill to pull off without being killed. I wish you good luck and I hope you enjoyed reading. Have fun playing Spain in Colonial. I'll take questions, comments, flames, and sex (hot woman only please). I'll get some recs when I can.
Replies:
posted 11-10-09 03:54 PM EDT (US)     1 / 24  
Nice write up, certainly going to try this out. :]

eso name: oliandsam
rank: 1st luit
clan: some silly dutch one
"A single death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography. - Paul Rodriguez
posted 11-10-09 04:28 PM EDT (US)     2 / 24  
sweet!

QUACK
posted 11-10-09 04:35 PM EDT (US)     3 / 24  
Whut? No flames?
posted 11-10-09 06:00 PM EDT (US)     4 / 24  
What do you do vs semi-FF? For example with France who do a 5 hussar-semi FF followed by goons + skirms and maybe a 2 falc shipment.

Would you still fight in colonial by pressuring him, or would you use 700 gold instead of 4 vills/rods and age to Fortress?

Is this for FP? I don't know what changed for Spain in FP actually.
I'll take questions, comments, flames, and sex (hot woman only please).
I only went for questions, you need to get sex from someone else
Whut? No flames?
Why would there be flames? I'm sure Ulti hasn't read it :P

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
posted 11-10-09 06:05 PM EDT (US)     5 / 24  
Yea I think vs a French semi I would harass and send 700c after 700w. Try to do as much damage as possible in the mean time with what I've got.

Could be tricky since the 5 hussar semi is a strong strat. And Spain doesn't have the fast age up politician, which can actually be a little annoying, considering that it's going to take a long while to get to Fort.

I think that the FP Spain got:

* Rodelero: Attack increased from 10 to 11.
* HCShipRodeleros1: 5 rodeleros increased to 6.
* HCShipLancers1: 3 Lancers increased to 4.
* Hand Cavalry Combat: (HCHandCavalryCombatSpanish) now affects Dragoons too.
* The Adventurer politician: (PoliticianAdventurerSpanish) 4 crossbowmen/4 pikemen changed to 5 settlers.
posted 11-11-09 02:48 AM EDT (US)     6 / 24  
" Whut? No flames? "

here I come!!!!!! Haha jk.

but in all seriousness who let's spain alone without attacking? you'll most certainly be rushed considering that you mentioned spain is considered a FF civ.

What beats a FF? A rush! Who doesn't rush these days......
As much as I want to try this. I know for a fact I won't win many games cause everyone rushes. I'll still try it a few times with unrated.

Don't look at me as a pessimistic person who just shoots down strats. I appreciate seeing strats being put up. At least it's viable in certain situations just not in many.
posted 11-11-09 03:36 AM EDT (US)     7 / 24  
If you have doubts as to whether or not this would work vs a rush, come play me online. My strat vs your rush.

You have a tower, you have musks, you have dogs, you have a TC with its MM. This is enough to assure your survival, if you herd well and you're good with defensive play (which is hard, I'll give you that).

Really this is an economic start that let's you branch off to do what you need to do. After Part II, you'll notice that you can go either cav heavy, HI heavy, hit Fortress, go econ-heavy, go xbows. This strat is all about versatility. Spain is more versatile than people think.
posted 11-11-09 07:04 AM EDT (US)     8 / 24  
At higher levels steve, the rush element slowly winds down, and later the main strats tend to be FF, cav semis, or contain. Youd be surprised how micro can stop you from taking a TC down at like 800 hp before its dead. CdB hoping, melee vil hopping, CM, BR, all of these things take down your rush and often you dont even realize until its too late, and you rush is over.

DISTISOP
ESO: Blitzkrieg_Mario
Prefered civs: Hell, I like them all.
Rank: TWC PR 18 (master sergeant) TAD PR 17, Vanilla PR 12

Clan: Triple Entente
Favorite games: Dofus, AoE 3, Tremulous, CoD 4, SSBB, Urban Terror
posted 11-11-09 03:19 PM EDT (US)     9 / 24  
war dogs are pretty lame , they beat disciples but cost less

QUACK
posted 11-11-09 07:10 PM EDT (US)     10 / 24  
ok so I tried my own variation of this vs 1st lt. on great plains, I had a VOD of it but erased it from my HD as I believed it was a waste of 32 gigs that it was taking up, maybe if I WON like I SHOULD have I'd of kept it.

We both start off doing a raid/harass plan, I built about 7-10 muskets to gaurd one hunt at my direct 3 o clock, and ship 6 rods to cover the other one at 9 o clock. Doing this renders his raids ineffective so I think I had the advantage in raiding as far as killing villies.

So now it becomes a race to fortress. I probably have quite a few more vills then the dutchie, but he has the standard 3 dutch banks up by now. His score is maybe 10 points ahead of me because of this, and only this. I have researched the second gold and food ups from market by the time 700 wood came.

He hits fortress maybe about 10 seconds before me. I don't remember clearly what I had shipped first, 2 cannons im pretty sure to take care of his skirm/halb/pike heavy army. I had a quite large number of lancers/vet hussar with 2 cav upgrade cards shipped already. I immediately started making my own skirms also in age 3 to help out with the swiss pike/ruyters on the way.

unfortunately, I get map screwed and the two mines (there was only 4 total, 2 that started in your base other 2 randomly placed on your side) both of my mines are located next to eachother in the far left corner, and one was almost off the map so I had failed to scout the little black dot there to reveal it. (wtf??) Ok so Im fending his stupid dutch army off quite good, I mean for spain I felt like I was doing a good job. My gold coffers were nice, my food coffers were nice.

UNTIL....

he decides to bring the fight right next to the two gold mines, THE ONLY TWO LEFT ON MY SIDE RIGHT NEXT TO EACHOTHER>
(which was smart on his side, I admit)

so of course I have to bump my vills off the gold, no panic yet I still have about 1800-2000 stored with constant cav, skirms and what not coming out. This all goes downhill as he keeps expensive batches of hussar, skirm , and mercs, ruyters coming non stop as I am screwed and my only options now are pikes, and xbows. NOW, if I would of had a source of gold (I mean wtf? the map would of forced me on plantations at about 13-15 minutes regardless of any pressure anyways) I would of beat his army, no doubt. He did not have any great skill that just overpowered me, It was the fact that the map resources was lame, and dutch has infinite source of gold. It's not that I was bad at controlling my territory either, but how can I expect to mine in the middle of a huge war without losing ALL my vills.
Food------Wood-----GOLD
TN2Keivan::11540-----3762-----14870

DrizzyDrops::13155-----5995-----6306

Forced to go onto other side of map to his mine = GG... that game was so lame

so basically to sum this all up, sooner or later down the road in the game you will realize why nobody plays spain because other euro civs> spain in most cases.

and you might as well do a pike rush it seems to be more effective the trying to draw the game out longer as spain. Not flaming the article, just mentioning my own struggles with the civ and saving some people the time of fighting losing battles lol...

A Top 500 1v1 sup player (when i feel like it )
ESO NAME : DrizzyDrops PR:21 2nd Lieut.
Clan: Triple Entente

visit my detailed stats
My Recorded Game Archive"Believe you can, Believe you can't...... either way your right"

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 11-11-2009 @ 07:22 PM).]

posted 11-11-09 07:21 PM EDT (US)     11 / 24  
Life lesson: Always. Use. Land Grab.

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
posted 11-11-09 07:25 PM EDT (US)     12 / 24  
so I have to resort to lame plantation rates 13 minutes into the game as he has rediculous dutch bank income? still would of lost a battle of attrition.On top of that all the resources I wasted building them, and then researching the gold mine ups from the market are wasted now also.

Alls im saying is I was perfectly in the game until my military production had to flatline because of getting map screwed and the war going on where my only two mines were located. And then I looked on his side of the map and they were seperated one on each side.

A Top 500 1v1 sup player (when i feel like it )
ESO NAME : DrizzyDrops PR:21 2nd Lieut.
Clan: Triple Entente

visit my detailed stats
My Recorded Game Archive"Believe you can, Believe you can't...... either way your right"

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 11-11-2009 @ 07:28 PM).]

posted 11-11-09 07:49 PM EDT (US)     13 / 24  
imo land grabs sucks early on. 250 wood for towers and in case of spain 600 wood for tc is always better then plants or mills even if you send a card for it. Remember land grab is equivalent to 4 tower shipment/1000 wood, which gives a decent amount of map control

Advantage of the colonial spain strat is that in a game like you described where both players harass a bit one player stops unit production to advance in age, now is the moment for you to push him. With the military advantage you should get map control and destroy his. Attack his town kill all his houses make it impossible for him to send his fortress shipments, destroy his raxes/stables.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
posted 11-11-09 07:56 PM EDT (US)     14 / 24  
Remember land grab is equivalent to 4 tower shipment/1000 wood, which gives a decent amount of map control
???? you know its an age 1 card right? I have used it in age 2 before lol.

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
posted 11-11-09 09:35 PM EDT (US)     15 / 24  
Pretty nice. And yeah, if you don't go FF with spain you should go high eco. I wish you luck with this...but as long as I stay on vanilla I'm going to continue with FF/semi FF laming Spain. XD

ESO name: wonkwink
posted 11-11-09 10:45 PM EDT (US)     16 / 24  
yeah bart, maybe my best option was to put the clamps down on him and make him garrison in his tc while i sent pikes over to burn his houses down. Chances are I wouldn't of made it to fortress, but he would of been severely slowed down to say the least. you already know how I have problems against dutch tho lol no matter what I throw at your dutch you destroy me. He didn't have much for anti cav in age 2 and his 10 skirms for defense would of gotten destroyed by my hussars. Just MM always turn the tables on me in that situation.

A Top 500 1v1 sup player (when i feel like it )
ESO NAME : DrizzyDrops PR:21 2nd Lieut.
Clan: Triple Entente

visit my detailed stats
My Recorded Game Archive"Believe you can, Believe you can't...... either way your right"
posted 11-11-09 11:29 PM EDT (US)     17 / 24  
i should include landgrab in more of my decks because whenever temerit plays with japan on my team he shrines my hunts

QUACK
posted 11-12-09 12:13 PM EDT (US)     18 / 24  
Keeping someone off resources to starve him is a smart and good thing to do to win a game. It works. It can be very hard to fight for resources, I'll give you that.

Spain is at the moment one of the lower tier civs. On RE they're down there with Ports, on the FP only Sioux and Otto are better (but they're less UP on FP than they are on RE)(until FP1.2). This makes them one of the harder civs at the moment, but it makes it all the more satisfying when you win.

I'm not quite familiar with all the MUs, but I feel Dutch should do well vs Spain (excellent fortress), and Brits are SPain's counter civ.
posted 11-12-09 12:48 PM EDT (US)     19 / 24  
Landgrab good or bad?
Im thinking about including it in my deck.

eso name: oliandsam
rank: 1st luit
clan: some silly dutch one
"A single death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography. - Paul Rodriguez
posted 11-13-09 10:28 AM EDT (US)     20 / 24  
At higher levels steve
what like ms?

Mudkips did 9/11 - The way I see it is, I'm playing this game for the fun of it, not to prove that I have a fiery E-wang of doom.
posted 11-13-09 12:15 PM EDT (US)     21 / 24  
Gotta be higher than that cause I'm still getting my @ss rushed. =P
posted 11-13-09 01:24 PM EDT (US)     22 / 24  
I looked at the graph for the game u mentioned drizzy. Every skirmish u came off worse, u lost like 4 vills early on, and he wasnt far behind in vill count (+having 3-4 banks). Therefore his economy was superior and you diddn't deserve to win the game anyway, and would probably have lost even if it had continued...
posted 11-13-09 01:37 PM EDT (US)     23 / 24  
I looked at the graph for the game u mentioned drizzy. Every skirmish u came off worse, u lost like 4 vills early on, and he wasnt far behind in vill count (+having 3-4 banks). Therefore his economy was superior and you diddn't deserve to win the game anyway, and would probably have lost even if it had continued...
IDK what graph you were looking at but you prove my point very clearly. Whats the point of a "eco spain colonial" strat when a dutch 3-4 bank with less vills will still outproduce it. Clearly you must of missed the GOLD gathered part. where ummm mine gets stopped short about 12,000 of his, and yet I STILL have a better economic score but all I can produce is xbows and pikes in the middle of a key battle that takes place, oh guess where... where my ONLY 2 mines were located. Keep in mind this is only shortly after we've arrived to fortress and it's not like the game has been dragging on for minutes upon minutes and I had tons of time and wood to throw down plantations.... No gold, No good spain units = dutch wins no matter what...player had 150 ELO rating points on me anyways but even a player with 150 LESS would of still won theres nothing you can do in that situation.

Those graphs don't explain what really happened in detail anyways. Thats like pissing on my leg and telling me its raining. And my kill/death ratio was highly tainted by the fact I let batches of 5 xbows after already being on the losing end of the deal and what not come out the rax for him to slaughter before resigning...

so if i get to colonial with spain and ship 5 vills right away, even after shipping 3 vills in age 1 and a dutch still comes out with better eco then me with about even raiding ( I bumped his villies more, so him killing maybe 1-2 more early on is not clear which was more effective.) proves that you still will be the underdog regardless so alls im saying is spain = uphill battle to say the LEAST. Don't believe me? play 10 games with spain at your competitive rank and see how much you win....

oh, noticed you haven't even touched spain. now is that "personal preference", or just a general "I know better"...lol

A Top 500 1v1 sup player (when i feel like it )
ESO NAME : DrizzyDrops PR:21 2nd Lieut.
Clan: Triple Entente

visit my detailed stats
My Recorded Game Archive"Believe you can, Believe you can't...... either way your right"

[This message has been edited by DrizzyDrops (edited 11-13-2009 @ 01:55 PM).]

posted 11-22-09 09:18 AM EDT (US)     24 / 24  
bump, i forgot i need to get recs for these
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