Strategy Request - Iroquios (Semi)FF - Age of Empires III Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Strategy Request - Iroquios (Semi)FF

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-20-10 00:03 AM EDT (US)

Alright, so to rejuvenate some of the weakened section in my Guide to All Guides, I'm simply introducing a few new segments. First I'm getting to strategy requests. Which isnt really a request, but more of a joint effort by the community to assess the potential and effectivity of strategies. I'll get to the second thing later on. Hopefully both of these ideas will upgrade the guide and give something for those of us who more seasoned to focus energy on, rather than if certain strategies are still indate or answering nub (no offense, we were all there) questions.

So, first off, I noticed the GtAG has a very weak Iroquios section, only sporting the BB rush. Now, although that will get you pretty damn far, it is easily counterable at a higher level of play. So I now introduce the Iroquios FF, of which I will point out the strong points that i recall (I'm no Iro player) and discuss its variability.

- Starting TP
can easily fuel your shipment spam in fortress, and even for defense in colonial. it is a standard part of iro gameplay, and this is now exception.

- AgeUp Travious
Can easily be used to vary your strategy. You can make a warhut/stable for semi's/defense. Awesome. You can make other things with it even, idk, a market? if you dont plan on getting rushed

- Politicians?
Im unsure on there. They have fast age, and even more travious though. Im sure someone could think of some options.

- 4 Kanye
That shipment is GREAT. And we all know it will make for an even greater cav semi. You could even simply pair in with tomas from your politician hut. Plus with your TP, youll have extra shipment anyways.

- Forest Prowlaasss
Theyre great as regular skirmishers, but then someone screwed up and decided to give them stealth? Very good.

- Musket Riders
Im pretty sure these guys do a great job as anticav? better than dragoon IIRC.

- Veteranization
Again, IIRC, natives have less costly vet-techs.

Any other ideas/ somewhat BOs?

Any input from anyone would be greatly appreciated

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.

Author

Replies:

The Jackal
Skirmisher

posted 07-20-10 03:53 PM EDT (US) 1 / 20

A splendid topic.

Councils:

IMO, Wise Woman is the pick for colonial, and the Messenger is the right choice for fortress. The boost in resources from WW helps you hit the age-up button earlier, and the Messenger speeds up age time by 70 seconds (as opposed to saving you 60 seconds if you send messenger first).

Shipments:

I think 3 villagers, 600 gold, 4 Kanyas and the Age 3 400 w/g/f crates.

Early TP:

Definitely. With your free Travois, you've got housing in Discovery covered. Chop a little bit in transition to be able to drop a second longhouse in colonial, which should be enough to see you to Fortress. At that point, you want to get ready to drop a fire pit and start the Founder Dance to start laying down troop production buildings and longhouses.

Once you're in Fortress, it's prowlers, musket riders, tomas and mantlets. IMO, once you have prowlers, you don't want to bother spending cash upgrading Aennas or Kanyas. Backed up with your Warchief and boosted by War Dance, there's nothing you can't roll in open battle.

Bart331
Skirmisher

posted 07-20-10 04:33 PM EDT (US) 2 / 20

i would go for fast aggressive 4 kanya, and then age or go for a more eco build with some toma harass shipping 5+4 vills, in fortress sending crates isnt viable you need to get those awesome fp + musket rider shipments and ofc the 5 cuir card

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-20-10 04:42 PM EDT (US) 3 / 20

There are a lot of options really. EconomicSemi, KanyeSemi, MixedMilitarySemi, StraightFF. In tandem with their frustrating potential colonial gameplay these can really keep an opponent on their toes: guessing. You control the game. What I'm trying to do is figure out is which variations are most effective and when/how to pull them off when faced with different matchups and scenarios.

The Jackal
Skirmisher

posted 07-20-10 07:18 PM EDT (US) 4 / 20

Oh, I think the 1200 resource crate option is too good to pass up. It's 1966 villager-seconds, nearly as good as the 1000 wood shipment, with the added advantage that you can spend a good chunk of it on troops, as opposed to 1000 wood. Best of all, the build bounty you'll get from using them will go a good way towards speeding your next shipment.

By comparison, 8 forest prowlers is 1367 villager-seconds. Also, remember that crates show up faster than troops, so the time it takes to use those resources is offset by them showing up quicker. Now I'm not going to say that there's never a scenario when the extra seconds to collect crates and build from them will cost you the game, but I believe that in most circumstances, the extra resources will more than compensate for the marginally slower deployment.

It's a lean, mean shipment meant to reimburse you quickly for all those resources you dropped on aging up.

[This message has been edited by The Jackal (edited 07-20-2010 @ 07:43 PM).]

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-21-10 11:46 AM EDT (US) 5 / 20

Youre right thats its technically more beneficial, but, as well as the resources you spent getting into fortress, one must also consider the time it took them. Going 7 minutes without many troops and then sending a 1200crate gives your opponent only more time to overpower you with their mass. Alternitively, you can send 8FP, 5cuirs, even 9tomas or 6 kanyes. If your opponent isnt massing/has FF'd with you (either one means you probably shouldve rushed) you can send the crates. But if hes sticking to colonial warfare, you need to send either FP (HI based army), Cuirs (RI based army), or tomas (Cav based army).

tE_1x1
Skirmisher

posted 07-21-10 12:56 PM EDT (US) 6 / 20

Also, remember that crates show up faster than troops

not true

Triple Entente

Bart331
Skirmisher

posted 07-21-10 02:25 PM EDT (US) 7 / 20

very rarely you are in a position with iro when you ff or semi ff you can send crates, as with every ff/ semi ff you need to ship those OP fortress units shipments asap to make a profit from your invesment. After a long colonial warfare it can be a good plan but not early in game, it will mean instant loss.

Been experimenting a bit on fp, and till now iro semi ff doesnt seem such a good idea, without mm its pretty vulnerable and straight ff seems better. Also i dont know yet how it will perform vs other ff/semi ff's since iro really misses the 2 falc shipment.

Most likely bo till now is 3 v > 5 v > 600 g > 8 fp > 5 mr > 6 kanya > cuirs

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-21-10 10:21 PM EDT (US) 8 / 20

I see. In RE its bound to be better but nonetheless, what are the scenarios you should do this in? When you faced my Russia you said it wasnt a good time, but pulled it off anyways :P

Iro lack of cannon in fortress was really annoying. I was playing a game v. owns, and i thought i had it made after a long battle when i took out his agra, but the lack of a reliable way to take down his gurkas (and inferior economy due to my overall suckage) led me to defeat. Kanyes arent worth the investment compared to even hussars, let alone civ-specific fortress cav. The 5 cuir shipment is nice, but if those go down, your kinda screwed. Field cannons should be 3rd age >.>

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer

posted 07-21-10 11:46 PM EDT (US) 9 / 20

sami has some op semi-ff thingy where he goes 5 vills->4 vills!

QUACK

DukeLeto
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 00:30 AM EDT (US) 10 / 20

I don't like field cannons regardless.
I only like iros when the game ends in the 1st 10 minutes since I hate playing them past 3rd age because of their wood-based units.

��,��,��`��,�_ESO-> _DukeLeto__<-ESO �,��`��,��,��
��(-�^CLAN->Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ [TΣ] Officer ^<-CLAN �-)��

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 00:30 AM EDT (US) 11 / 20

He can only use that against us though, because were not as OP as him.

Bart331
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 04:13 AM EDT (US) 12 / 20

Don't get me wrong the strat can be great but it aint the best option vs an russian NVR :P

And forest prowlers are insane units, i talked with some good iro players and they say for a semi ff 5 v > 600 coin is the way to go

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

[This message has been edited by Bart331 (edited 07-22-2010 @ 04:15 AM).]

Lord_Sami
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 07:06 AM EDT (US) 13 / 20

The 5 vill 4 vill is rather good vs ports and dutch. And it's not much slower than the 5 vill > 600c

And with the 30 vill eco early you can get nice 2 warhut FP spam

'09 Match Of Death Winner

My elorating

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 11:54 AM EDT (US) 14 / 20

I dont do NVR you nub :P

So whattaya say we write this bad boy up!?

With a few variant lists and ish for different situations!

is it like...

-15 villager age
-market in discovery??? (in FP instead of TP?)
-age with crates?
-market & ups in transition
-get 200 wood for stable
- make kanyes
-ship 5vils
-ship 600 gold
- age w/ fast politician/villagers?
- war hut in transition
- spam FP/MR?

???

The Jackal
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 03:04 PM EDT (US) 15 / 20

I only like iros when the game ends in the 1st 10 minutes since I hate playing them past 3rd age because of their wood-based units.

If you make good use of the Founder Dance, your wood consumption should be pretty low. You really want to avoid building Kanyas too heavily, they're both pop and cost-ineffective, and don't upgrade well. Tomas do require a minor amount of wood, but you can afford them with a modest amount of chopping.

Putting a bunch of mantlets in your lineup will do wonders for discouraging your opponent from going too heavily into skirm-types. With 50% ranged resistance, 400 hit points and not being heavy infantry, they can all but ignore skirmisher fire while they wreck your opponent's town.

Once you get into 4 and have siege discipline, your light cannon will shred all the ranged infantry you want, so you can dispense with building Kanyas altogether.

Bart331
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 06:47 PM EDT (US) 16 / 20

i have never been a fan of mantlets they really dont counter anything , only absorb fire. I think resources are better invested in units who actually do something.

on the bo:

-15 villager age
-market in discovery (depending on starting resources / treasures)
-age with crates
-market & ups in transition (if you didnt get them at discovery)
-travois for stable, use wood for housing / kanya production
- make kanyes
-ship 5vils
-ship 600 gold
- age w/ fast politician
- war hut from travois
- spam FP/MR?

alternative bo:
-15 villager age
-market in discovery (depending on starting resources / treasures)
-age with crates
-market & ups in transition (if you didnt get them at discovery)
-use travois for warhut
- do BB
- ship 4 kanyas
-ship 5vils
(try to collect resources for age3)
- age w/ fast politician
- war hut from travois
- spam FP/MR?

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

O_man0
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 07:04 PM EDT (US) 17 / 20

Mantlets could be beasts lategame with that one card that makes them 1 population >

feild cannons should be age3 for sure

anyways, when would you reccomend FFing as iro?

lokomaniaco
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 09:21 PM EDT (US) 18 / 20

Hmm ... Fp against Japanese I guess.

The Jackal
Skirmisher

posted 07-22-10 10:43 PM EDT (US) 19 / 20

i have never been a fan of mantlets they really dont counter anything

Well, they are a bit odd, I'll grant you, but they're a tough, flexible trooper. Being infantry, they're a bit vulnerable to cannons, but with your excellent musket riders, prowlers and light cannon, you're well placed to protect them from their hard counters (cavalry and cannon). Thanks to their extreme toughness, they fare against everything else very, very well.

They're fantastic versus enemy musketeer types, practically immune to tower and TC fire, and deliver very stiff siege and ranged damage. I'm not saying go nuts and spam 30 of them, but 10 mantlets is a siege force that's capable of wrecking towns with dispatch, while being tough enough to survive a lot of pounding. Bring them to your enemy's town, send them in, and just reap the troops he sends out to destroy them. If he ignores them, you'll rapidly destroy his infrastructure. If he tries to get rid of them, he's leaving your more fragile troops alive. Either way, you're gaining economic advantage, imo. And as O_man0 points out, once you send siege discipline, their pop effectiveness is beyond belief.

when would you reccomend FFing as iro

Use a naked FF to throw off your opponent when he's expecting your BB rush. I don't like the strategic tradeoffs of a semi-ff for Iro. One, your Age 2 Kanya shipment is the only good thing about Kanyas, and two, your opponent is probably prepping for a BB rush, and thus will likely show up on your doorstep armed for bear if you don't get to Fortress fast.

Bart331
Skirmisher

posted 07-26-10 05:02 AM EDT (US) 20 / 20

Use a naked FF to throw off your opponent when he's expecting your BB rush. I don't like the strategic tradeoffs of a semi-ff for Iro. One, your Age 2 Kanya shipment is the only good thing about Kanyas, and two, your opponent is probably prepping for a BB rush, and thus will likely show up on your doorstep armed for bear if you don't get to Fortress fast.

True story, same with sioux the ff is really vulnerable and quick ff is often the safest way. Maybe the fact that native civs dont have mm plays an important role.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

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