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Topic Subject: The LaFFHR
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posted 12-07-10 09:13 PM EDT (US)   
UPDATED VERSION

Here is my Lightning Fast French Hussar Rush, or LaFFHR. As a strategy this isn't "amazing" but I'd like to challenge anyone who thinks they have a faster hussar time.

Overview:
Allows for a ~5:30 (great plains) 8 hussar rush that will win countless 2v2s

Sets up a basic FF eco


Cards Needed:
3 Coureur du Bois
3 Hussar
4 Coureur du Bois


Other Recommended Cards:
Cavalry Improvement cards
700 Resource cards
Team Sawmills
8 Crossbows


Discovery:

Have one Coureur collect only the food crates then have him go hunts, have the other 4 go hunt. Que up a cdb as soon as possible. You can lure hunts close to TC if you want, but I usually find it makes little difference for a lot of micro.

Only make 4 cdbs from TC so you are at 9/10 population, then ship 3 cdbs to put you at 12/10 population. DO NOT build a house before you age to Colonial.

Age Colonial (Quartermaster) when you have 800 food, you are going to have a little TC idle time between having made all 4 cdbs and getting 800 food usually.

In transition:

Take 4 cdbs and put them on gold. Take another cdb (from hunts) and have him collect the rest of the crates, then have him build a house near the middle of the map, about 1/3 of the way from edge to edge. Then put him on wood near trees by your house.

Que a cdb at TC when the house is built.

Colonial (this takes some micro):

Ship 3 Hussars

Collect wood crates with one gold cdb, have the qued cdb at TC go to crates as well.

At 200 wood collected:
Start building a stable with your forward cdb, try and find a good defensive spot.

After another 100 wood:
Build a house with the gold cdb who went crates, the qued cdb should come in about now, have him collect the last 100 wood crate and then build a house with him and the gold cdb. Have one then go gold, and one then go wood.

AS SOON AS YOUR FIRST HOUSE IS BUILT QUE 5 HUSSARS

This is the most important part of the strategy, and can make a difference of up to 20 seconds sometimes.

Ship 4 cdb or a 700 resource card, I would recommend 4 cdbs. Keep making cdbs at TC, use a 2/2/1 Gold/Food/Wood ratio for new cdbs.

With your 3 hussars and 5 you created go raid stray hunts or destroy unprotected houses, with good micro you can do some devastating damage to their early game. Run from musks and pikes, kill xbows and other cavalry (you will have both numbers and strength)

Make another 10 hussars or so and keep making cdbs, go fort if you get beaten back or are comfortable doing so, and go double rax to make musks and xbows if they try and counter you with a weak eco.

Key Points:

Works well with a teammate making ranged infantry

Not a great 1 v 1 strategy

You should NEVER have down time where you find yourself waiting to build something because you don't have enough wood, or waiting to que hussars because a house isn't up.

Microing hussars is your first priority, use shift clicking and knowledge of TC range and basic angles to keep them out of harms way.

Use against any team you want, it really doesn't matter BUT it is a good idea to go Fort quickly against British or Ottos (musks own hussars) for skirmishers

Only build a market if you have enough wood, if you waste some of your quartermaster wood your rush isn't going to be as successful

Use your forward base to shelter hunting cdbs. Try to find a forwad spot near hunts and trees, this is very important because it makes your cdbs extremely hard to raid. With this in mind, usually have your 3rd group of hunts be the one near the FB. I can't tell you how many games I've lost because over half of my food cdbs get raided. It really is extremely important. If you don't think so, just remember that you are raiding their hunting villagers and hopefully killing many. Anything you do to them they can do back.

This also helps if you teammate decides to FB along with you. Some outposts and raxes can really turn raiders away.

I'll try and get a recording up soon, because it will make a lot more sense in some places visually

Thank you for all the suggestions and criticisms to make this strategy even better!

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-11-2010 @ 01:45 PM).]

Replies:
posted 12-07-10 09:30 PM EDT (US)     1 / 47  
would recommend an early market or getting it during transition to colonial, it really helps your hussar spam

QUACK
posted 12-07-10 09:32 PM EDT (US)     2 / 47  
Yes but it makes the first 8 slower unless you are starting with 200-300 wood

This isn't a spam, it's a rush

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-07-2010 @ 09:33 PM).]

posted 12-07-10 10:50 PM EDT (US)     3 / 47  
Hussar all in sucks because they don't do well vs buildings.
You want to have the latergame eco to age up and continue making units.
Also, that looks like too many cdb in transition on gold, I usually put 4 on gold and ~4 on wood to get market/house/market upgrades.
posted 12-08-10 03:43 AM EDT (US)     4 / 47  
8 hussars at 6 mins really isnt that fast. im noob and i can get 10 ulhan out by then in the same way you did at the same time. 10 ulhan is also just a shipment and units trained. the thing is that DukeLeto is right hussars do suck vs buildings. if you start with cav then you DONT want to go for buildings. the main objuctive is to keep the opponents vills away from supplies. you want them running towards the tc as much as possible to lose as much VS as possible. thats the reasoning behind starting with cav. you cant call this a rush sinse there is no way you can win a game with 8 hussars simply because you will lose all your hussars if you attack the tc. you can however get an advantage over your opponent eco wise if you keep presuring him to send his vills away from supplies.
posted 12-08-10 09:19 AM EDT (US)     5 / 47  
Comment by comment:
This is also a ff, so im not going "all in" with hussars
Hussars are by far the most useful unit in the game at 6 minutes, they dont have horrible siege attack, 8 hussars will beat 10 uhlans with team hand cav attack shipped, plus i have 5 more on the way fairly quickly. I might try only going like 5 cdb on gold, but the extra gold helps getting to fortress and making skirms, or shipping mercenaries. Its nice when your first card in fort can be 10 jaegs when your opponents are still in colonial. Also, imagind if your teammate is making musks or jassys while you have hussars. You can take people out really quickly...

Btw i never said attack the TC, just to attack stray houses or market when you arent in range of anything. And 8 hussars can win you the game if you kill 6-7 villies that a noob has hunting way too far out. Ive done it many times before...

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-08-2010 @ 09:23 AM).]

posted 12-08-10 10:39 AM EDT (US)     6 / 47  
This isnt very fast.. build stable with 2 cdb is faster, early market is always better, as long as you herd well the early HD WILL make it faster.. i assume your a nilla player?..
posted 12-08-10 12:27 PM EDT (US)     7 / 47  
you wanna ship team hand cav attack before the 10 ulhan attack? just what do you think the ulhan would be doing until team hand cav attack is shipped? they would be killing ur hussars. anyways this isnt bad but its nothing special . in 2v2 its really good to go musk/hussar combo. my friend and i do musk/ulhan and have succes with it, but if you are going hussars and ur ally is going musks then what is the team hand cav attack card for? i think there are better cards that you could send. maby the 700 gold to age even faster so that you can get away with having 5 vills on gold instead of 7, heck then you could even go 4 vills on gold. that saves you 3 vills that you could use on wood to get an early market to speed up your hussar semi-ff.

dont take us the wrong way we only want to help you improve on this.
posted 12-08-10 07:30 PM EDT (US)     8 / 47  
Alright things I have to try:

700 gold instead of team hand cav
Market Build

Besides that this strategy really can't improve IMO. This is a very successful early game attack using French in a 2 v 2; trying to use a musk/xbow/pike build never seems to give you as much of an edge.

I urge you to at least give this a try, because all of these comments are purely analytical

Thanks everyone btw
posted 12-08-10 08:20 PM EDT (US)     9 / 47  
And less villagers on gold before colonial.
You'll have extra gold especially with 700g card and you don't want spare resources

[This message has been edited by DukeLeto (edited 12-08-2010 @ 08:33 PM).]

posted 12-08-10 08:56 PM EDT (US)     10 / 47  
Yes but it makes the first 8 slower unless you are starting with 200-300 wood
it won't actually delay your hussar timings much if at all. True you may have to gather a tiny bit of wood but take into account you're getting a food gather boost to put your age up time close to normal again.

If you don't want to do a discovery market make one during transition, it won't slow you down as you should still be able to make stable->full batch of 5 hussars+ ship 3 hussars immediately upon aging

QUACK
posted 12-08-10 09:16 PM EDT (US)     11 / 47  
OP: fast hussar rush is a good idea, in my opinion its more effective ina 1v1 than ina 2v2/3v3. From looking at your build order it seems like your trying to do too much all at once. And if you want a more effective hussar rush i would change the build order. First things first i would take the hand cavalry atk dmg out for now, and use it only if you have 15+ hussar. Its a 10% increase, meaning if i ahd 10 hussar on the field their atk with that card would act like i had 11. With a difference of only 1 hussar, equalling a value of 200 res. wouldnt you think theres better cards to use earlier on?...Anyways. As strong as the 4 cdb colonial card is, if your goal is for a early rush, i still would change that order as well.Heres a suggestion. Try this and tell me how it works out for you, if you need assiatance, then i can explain further how to go about.

-3cdb
-700 res, i usually go 700 gold, but ideal would be 700 wood, but then you ahve to age with food or gold.
-3 cav card

...your next card decides what your near future plans are.

-600 gold, for conitnuing to mass cavs
-4cbs, to strnegthen eco assuming you just won a cav battle or you harrassed enough vills.
-700 wood, if hes got a racks up and avoiding to fight you and massing pike/musk, this way you can counter with making musk/xb fairly quickly.

I bet i can get 8 cavs near 5 minutes. 6 minutes is really late i think. Now for exmaple if i played with ottos, i can gaurantuee more cav mass at a faster time than your "lighting fast hussar rush" strat, . I mean i use to have about 13 cav at the 5 minute mark going gp nats with otto, so just to put it in perspective this really isnt fast.


The reason why this type of strat is mroe effective in 1v1's than 2v2s is mainly cause of the size of the map, and riading can occur more often.

P.S. I do agree with the majority, if you start with 200 wood, id put an early market up....if you want, i might be able to make a video of this strat quite easily, but youd have to wait until finals are over, ^^.
posted 12-08-10 10:48 PM EDT (US)     12 / 47  
Tashnag:
Cav rushes almost never work in a 1 v 1, all they have to do is make a counter unit and they win early game map control.

Sending 700 gold as the second card I disagree with completely, how is that going to speed up anything, when you have to wait for 2 ques of hussars instead of one?

And by the way, this is with French not Ottomans if you didn't notice lol...

Plus saying that one hussar is only worth 200 resources (I'm agreeing with not sending team had cav attack) isn't valid. You don't take into account build time, permanent increase in stats, flexibility with microing and grouping, noting that each individual unit has a 10% increase (not just an "extra" unit), and that the word TEAM means more than one player.

Crazy and DukeLeto: Thank you for thinking before you post something, and you both make good points.

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-08-2010 @ 11:11 PM).]

posted 12-09-10 01:31 AM EDT (US)     13 / 47  
also another point i feel I should make. It's almost always better to send hand cav HP than cav attack. If the hussars last longer they will do way more damage overall than the attack card would make them do.

However if other people on your team also have cav then I would consider it a valid choice to send team cav attack before cav HP

QUACK
posted 12-09-10 05:07 AM EDT (US)     14 / 47  
ztejas i agree with you, what tashnag said about sending 3 cav card as third card wont speed up anything if you are attacking with 8 cav. the only thing it might do to send 700 gold eirlier is that you would have 13 hussars at a tad later time because you actually have the gold for it, but sending the cav card as first colonial card is better.

getting the market up early wont really make a difference on your first attack of 8 hussars, but it would help you to get the eco for the rest of the game.
You don't take into account build time, permanent increase in stats, flexibility with microing and grouping, noting that each individual unit has a 10% increase (not just an "extra" unit), and that the word TEAM means more than one player.
there are a lot of things wrongwith this part i quoted from you, but first things first.

'You don't take into account build time'

well this is true, just quickly compare the time it takes for the shipment to come to the time it takes to train another hussar because this is ultimately what it comes down to. after comparing this you can decide for yourself if team hand cav attack is better than 700 gold.

' permanent increase in stats, flexibility with microing and grouping, noting that each individual unit has a 10% increase (not just an "extra" unit)'

you are right they do have an increase in stats, but they still die as fast as they did without the card. an extra hussar means that it takes longer for your army to die. so when you say (not just an "extra" unit) it sounds as if you say that an extra unit is weaker where actually an extra unit would be stronger. the cav HP card like CrazyLunatic said would be better.

'and that the word TEAM means more than one player'

this is a strat to finish the game quickly if im not mistakin. that is why its called a rush is it not. you yourself said that it works well if your teammate goes ranged infantry. this means that only you would make cav, so the whole team idea goes down the drain. team hand cav attack card is good but not so early on, maby if you and your teammate does a cav start then it could be usefull, but then your teammate cant go ranged infantry like you said.
posted 12-09-10 09:17 AM EDT (US)     15 / 47  
Yeah I'm not arguing against sending 700 gold instead of team hand cav, but saying that team hand cav attack is only worth 200 resources isn't quite right. Plus, sometimes my teammate will mix in hussars as well.

As for 13 hussars I'm not sure. I usually don't have to wait hardly at all to que another 5.

I think the main thing a 700 gold card does for you is allow less cdbs to be on gold and more to be on wood (most notably) and food. It's easier to get a few more cdbs out in colonial this way and build some more houses or a couple of barracks'. I'm not sure it would let you get out that many more hussars than sending 4 cdbs
posted 12-09-10 12:24 PM EDT (US)     16 / 47  
Actually a hussar rush is very good if your good enough to use them well, you run from HI and kill vills, make him garrison meanwhile booming yourself, once again, i assume this is for nilla?...
posted 12-09-10 05:48 PM EDT (US)     17 / 47  
Yeah It can work well, but the problem is you can only run from HI for so long before you have to make a double counter. Yes this in Nilla, Japs piss me off too much to play TAD anymore

I think it's just more balanced and easier to fall back on if your rush fails when you're playing 2 v 2

update:
Played a couple of games using a discovery/transition market build, it has improved my Eco a good amount but problem is I'm getting hussars out 15-30 seconds slower. Would not reccomend

however, great advice on the 700 gold card, very useful for getting to fortress or putting less cdbs on gold

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-09-2010 @ 11:17 PM).]

posted 12-10-10 01:51 AM EDT (US)     18 / 47  
lol, 14 vill age up and sending 3 huss card after that is indeed slow. Go for a 13 vill ageup instead, or better a 12/10 age up

I no longer play aoe3 actively. In fact, I no longer play any video game. That's how lame I've become.
skype - pramit57
"Life is a void and void is truth"
posted 12-10-10 02:21 AM EDT (US)     19 / 47  
i would highly advise against aging up with 10 vills with france on any normal map

QUACK
posted 12-10-10 04:20 AM EDT (US)     20 / 47  
with france i mostly dont make cdb at all just collect crates and ship 300 f asap

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
posted 12-10-10 06:01 AM EDT (US)     21 / 47  
i would highly advise against aging up with 10 vills with france on any normal map
i never said 10 vill age up
nubcake

I no longer play aoe3 actively. In fact, I no longer play any video game. That's how lame I've become.
skype - pramit57
"Life is a void and void is truth"
posted 12-10-10 04:43 PM EDT (US)     22 / 47  
oh, i misinterpreted your post thought you meant 12 or 10 by the 12/10, not population level

QUACK
posted 12-10-10 05:51 PM EDT (US)     23 / 47  
I'll try 13 lol... I don't think 12 cdbs is enough for transition eco

And Bart, 300 food is one of the worst Discovery cards out there, no offense. You should always make cdbs in discovery, Colonial transition with 5 cdbs? No thanks lol...

[This message has been edited by ztejas (edited 12-10-2010 @ 05:53 PM).]

posted 12-10-10 05:55 PM EDT (US)     24 / 47  
Sarcasm obviously

some noob: Still - You need to use correct punctuation and grammar if it's going to be excepted.
posted 12-10-10 06:47 PM EDT (US)     25 / 47  
What?
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