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Topic Subject: Inca civilization for another possible AoK X-pack.
posted 01-26-06 10:20 PM EDT (US)   
I really think that ES should at least think about making one more X-pack for AoK. Not only would it satisfy many fans, but it would bring much income into the company. They'll be receiving money from AoK and AoE3, what more could be asked for?

When the X-pack for AoK (the Conquerors) came out, I really thought that the Incas were going to appear as a civilization, for they had such a strong empire. Yet, I was dissappointed in the fact that they weren't included, and had to resign myself to just plainly do with what I had.

Then, I realized that there could be more than one X-pack for a game. So, I may not be a "pro" at doing things such as civilizations, but I'll try my best and I'll be happy to take any help.

***********************************************************

Inca: Infantry and Anti-Cavalry/Infantry Civilization.

-Infantry costs -5% Feudal, -10% Castle, -15% Imperial Age.
-Start with +100 gold, stone, food.
-Buildings +5% HPs Dark, +10% Feudal, +15% Castle.
-Masonry and Trademill Crane, free.
-Monks more resistant to conversion.
-Farms produce -25 food.
-Scout is the Chasqui(Weak, fast).

Unique Units: Macemen and Bolas Warrior.*Maybe a Jaguar(Not a Jaguar Warrior, just a domesticated Jaguar).

Unique Technologies: Terraced Farming(Mill), Tawantinsuyo(Castle).

Team Bonus: Units are more resistant to gunpowder. BUT the Incas don't get the team bonus, not even if they ally themselves with other Inca civilizations.
-----------------------------------------------------------

A. Barracks:

-Militia(Dark), Man-at-arms(Feudal),Long Swordsman(Castle), Two-Handed Swordsman(Imperial), Champion(Imperial).

-Spearman(Feudal), Pikeman(Castle).
-Technologies: Tracking(Feudal), Squires(Castle)

B. Archery Range:

-Archer(Feudal), Crossbowman(Castle).
-Skirmisher(Feudal), Elite Skirmisher(Castle).

-*Bolas Warrior(Castle), Elite Bolas Warrior(Imperial).
*Same as in AoE3. Elite is faster and stronger.

-Technology: Thumb Ring(Castle).

C. Dock:

-Fishing Ship(Dark Age).
-Trade Cog(Feudal Age).
-Transport Ship(Feudal Age).
-Galley(Feudal), War Galley(Castle), Galleon(Imperial).
-Fire Ship(Castle). Fast Fire Ship(Imperial).
-Fish Trap(Feudal).
-Techonologies: Careening(Castle), Dry Dock(Imperial), Shipwright(Imperial).

D. Monastery:

-Monk(Unit), Redemption, Sancity, Fervor, Herbal Medicine, Atonement(Castle Age).
-Block Printing, Illumination, Faith, Theocracy, Heresy(Imperial).

E. Walls and Towers:

-Paladise Wall(Dark Age).
-Outpost(Dark Age).
-Gate(Feudal Age).
-Stone Wall(Feudal), Fortified Wall(Castle).
-Watch Tower(Feudal), Guard Tower(Castle).

F. Castle:

-Macemen(Castle), Elite Macemen(Imperial).
*Macemen is a unit that gets extra defense against other infantry.
-Petard(Castle).
-Trebuchet(Imperial).
-Hoardings(Imperial).
-Sappers(Imperial).
-Conscription(Imperial).
-Spies/Treason(Imperial).
-Unique Tech: Tawantinsuyo(Imperial).
*Tawantinsuyo makes units more resistant to cavalry attacks.

G. Town Center and Housing:

-House(Dark Age).

-Villager(Dark Age), loom(Dark Age).
-Town Watch(Feudal Age), Wheelbarrow(Feudal Age).
-Town Patrol(Castle Age), Hand Cart(Castle Age).

-Town Center(Castle Age).

H. Blacksmith:

-Padded Archer Armor(Feudal),Leather Archer Armor(Castle), Ring Archer Armor(Imperial).
-Fletching(Feudal), Bodkin Arrow(Castle), Brazer(Imperial).
-Forging(Feudal), Iron Casting(Castle, Blast Furnace(Imperial).
-Scale Mail Armor(Feudal), Chain Mail Armor(Castle), Plate Mail Armor(Imperial).

I. Siege Workshop:

-Mangonel(Castle), Onager(Imperial).
-Battering Ram(Castle), Capped Ram(Imperial).
-Scorpion(Castle), Heavy Scorpion(Imperial).

J. University:

-Masonry(Castle Age-Free), Architecture(Imperial).
-Fortified Wall(Castle Age).
-Chemistry(Imperial Age).
-Murder Holes(Castle).
-Guard Tower(Castle).
-Siege Engineers(Imperial).
-Treadmill Crane(Castle Age-Free).

K. Mining Camp:

-Stone Mining(Feudal), Stone Shaft Mining(Castle).
-Gold Mining(Feudal), Gold Shaft Mining(Castle).

L. Lumberjack:

-Double-Bit-Axe(Feudal), Bow Saw(Castle).

M. Mill:

-Farm(Dark).
-Terraced Farming(Dark,+25 food), Horse Collar(Feudal), Heavy Plow(Castle), Crop Rotation(Imperial).

N. Market:

-Cartographer(Feudal), Caravan(Castle).
-Coinage(Feudal), Banking(Castle).

-Trade Cart(Llama and an Andean guy with a cart, or just a llama with an Andean guy).

-Chasqui(Castle), weak and fast unit.

O. Wonder and buildings:

The buildings could probably be similar to the Aztecs and Mayas, until the Castle or Imperial Age. Then their buildings should completely differ.

The Wonder could probably be some sort of temple or something of that sort. I really can't think of one.
***********************************************************

New Units:

1. Inca Macemen,

Unique Unit that gets extra defense against other infantry, making them good if you upgrade them to their best.

Hp:65.
Attack:11.
Range: 0.
Armor:4/4, +2 pierce Armor, Defense Bonus against other infantry.

Strong Against: swordsmen, skirmishers, and camels.

Weak Against:Heavy Cavalry, Mangonels, scorpions, and archers.

2. Bolas Warrior,

Ranged option for anti-cavalry, attack may not work at maximum range, but will be 100% accurate in 3.

Hp: 50.
Attack: 7, attack bonus vs. cavalry.
Range: 1-4, may be inaccurate at 4.
Armor: 0/0, +3 pierce armor.
Cost: 30 Food 10 Wood

Strong against: Cavalry, Archers, Barracks units.

Weak against: Mangonels, Huskarls, and Woad Raiders.

3. Chasqui(Market),

Fast unit that can run as fast as a horse. Basically just does his job, but is rather weak against everything. Provides the Incas with a scout that they don't have due to their inability of horses and non-eagle warrior holders.

Hp: 30.
Attack: 0.
Range: 0.
Armor: 0/0.
Cost: 10 gold, 10 food.(Or just free, it really would be just an add on to your pop. limit).

Strong versus: Nothing.

Weak versus: everything.
-----------------------------------------------------------

New Technologies:

1.Terraced Farming.- Allows for the Incas to regain their 25 food loss, due to that they lived in the mountains.

2.Tawantinsuyo.- Makes units more resistant to cavalry(Including villagers and monks). Incas were just weak because of the Civil War, but if the Empire had stayed united as the Tawantinsuyo, they would have been able to stop the Spaniards, who mainly relied on their cavalry and gunpowder(But they still could have gotten beat by gunpowder, hence they don't get resistance).

***********************************************************

1.Along with the new civilizations, the X-pack could include features such as a flag pertaining to an empire flying over the town center and castle to show they've made it to the imperial age.

Outposts could also carry the flag, making it much more realistic and fun. Flags of the color of your team should still appear when there's a garrison, though.

2. Perhaps new music, but the graphics should stay basically the same.

3. Make it possible for civilizations to build bridges so that they will be able to cross rivers or make a pathway to an island.(It wouldn't be cheap, of course, and it could be destroyed by Mangonels, Trebuchets, Ships, Cannons, and petards. Can't be converted, though).

Idea by King_Ali_Skahir:

4. The Natives to be able to get horses without playing with "All Techs", for this they could have a domestication technology available at the university or market, during the Castle or Imperial Age, that would allow them to build a stable and build light cavalry, and a unique cavalry unit; Perhaps a Mounted Spearman, or mounted clubman, or axeman, and cavalry archers may become available from the archery range.

I know the Aztecs and Mayan were nothing like the plains indians, but it would be cool to allow the cavalry...

***********************************************************

Campaign:

1.Rulers of the Andes:

Objectives= Conquer all the other tribes(Will be represented by Incas, Aztecs, and Mayas)by taking over their town center(Sort of like the Anatolia campaign in the Conquerors).

You start out as nomads, and you have to find the perfect location to make "Cuzco." Then you have to take over several of the other tribes all around you, before they take you out. You can only get until the castle age, though.

2.Pachacutec:

Objectives= Once again, take control of the rest of the tribes, but this time there's a catch. The rest of the tribes are much stronger than you, and you'll need to be really good to actually put off the several attacks they will send. If you hang on long enough, Pachacutec and his army will come in to help you.

You start out in feudal age, and you basically will be defending for the first part of the game. Pachacutec will come with a strong force that will help you. He's a macemen, and has an extra attack that make him really strong. He can die, though. The hardest opponents would be the Tupis, but you don't have to conquer them.

3.Civil War:

Objectives=Kill Huascar.

You are Atahualpa. The main thing is to kill Huascar, but it won't be easy. You have your allies, and they have their allies. It will be an all out war, and Huascar is a macemen(Just like Atahualpa). The problem is that Huascar is surrounded by several other armymen, and everytime they are killed, more come to help. Huascar will rarely fight, though, but will protect himself when attacked.

When Huascar dies, Pizarro and his conquistadors arrive(Sort of like the Aztec's "triple allience," except that the Spaniards will come from the land).

4.A Room full of Gold and Silver:

Objectives= Gather 10000 gold.

Atahualpa has been captured, and you are in charge of the operation of gathering the resources needed to pay back his rescue. Your main source on how to get this are by gathering relics. The Spaniards have all of the relics, so there's no chance of a 100% relic victory. This really isn't easy because you have to steal the relics back from the Spaniards, who took them to burn them. Your main Antagonist are the Spaniards under Diego De Almagro, who are attacking what's left of your allies. Even though you are "helping" the Spaniards, they still don't want you to collect the resources for they don't wish to give you back Atahualpa.

5.The Return of the Tawantinsuyo:

Objectives= Take down your enemies.

Even though this seems really hard, you're getting aide from the Portuguese, who aren't really gettin along with the Spanish.

You, your allies, and the Portuguese(Who will change sides eventually) are attacking the Spanish. The allies of the Spanish are also tribes you once had conquered. After you defeat a couple of your enemies, the Portuguese will have a change of hearts and attack you and your allies. This is also when Pizarro and his men come in to aide their fellow Spaniards.

The Portuguese are at war with all the native tribes, and will be taken down eventually. Your enemy tribes, will change sides and attack the Spanish, but they will also attack you. This is going to be an all out battle in which you have to win.

Pizarro is the hardest of the warriors, and will recover HP like an elite Berserk. When he is at a critical stage, he'll simply leave and take down one of your enemy tribes with him(Matter of luck...might even take the Spanish with him). When you achieve victory(Destroying your enemies), Pizarro will return with a huge force, and that's where the game will end(You don't have to destroy the force, it's just to show that the Incas still got conquered).
***********************************************************

That's basically it, what do you think?

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 03-11-2006 @ 09:43 AM).]

Replies:
posted 01-27-06 06:56 PM EDT (US)     1 / 26  
This is really cool, but I don't think ES is interested in AOK. They will probably make an X-pack for AOE3, but if they did make an X-pack for AOK I would buy it.

Oh yeah, and why would a civilization that got destroyed by horses and gun powder be strong against it?

posted 01-27-06 07:21 PM EDT (US)     2 / 26  
The Gunpowder I understand, that's why I have fixed it so they really will have a hard time with gunpowder.

Cavalry is rather questionable. The fact was the Incas were not the Aztecs or Mayas, and their Civilization wasn't really as small. Hence, they had strength in numbers, and if it hadn't been for the civil war, they probably could have easily gotten rid of the horses and the gunpowder.

Technically, the Incas didn't quite fall for the trick that they were "gods", so they didn't have much mercy to the Spaniards. The only mistake the Inca really made, was to try and make peace with the Spaniards. This peace was wanted due to the fact that the Incas were unable to understand the guns and cannons, and usually got confused by them. Even more idiotically, they sent the Emperor to go and discuss with the Spaniards. They guessed that the Spaniards wouldn't do such a dishonorable thing, but I guess they really didn't know what conquistadors really wanted...

Yet, like I said above, they were able to take down the cavalry easy. This also being in part that the Spanish cavalry wasn't able to take the minimum quantity of air available, so the horses either got tired quick or they just choked.

Anyways, thanks for the help. I fixed the Gunpowder deal because of your comment.

And, I really do think that after ES makes their AoE3 X-pack, they might then start considering another X-pack for AoE1 and AoK. Where there's a will there's a way...

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 01-27-2006 @ 07:24 PM).]

posted 01-27-06 07:59 PM EDT (US)     3 / 26  
The Chasqui is a powerful unit, it is too OP...Just kidding, .

but here is something I always wanted the Natives to have in AOK, I wanted the Natives to be able to get horses without playing with "All Techs", for this they could have a domestication technology available at the university or market, during the Castle or Imperial Age, that would allow them to build a stable and build light cavalry, and a unique cavalry unit; Perhaps a Mounted Spearman, or mounted clubman, or axeman, and cavalry archers may become available form archery range.
I know the Aztecs and mayan were nothing like the plains indians, but it would be cool to allow the cavalry.

[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 01-27-2006 @ 09:47 PM).]

posted 01-27-06 09:30 PM EDT (US)     4 / 26  
Perhaps they could get an upgrade, but the units couldn't be the same as in Europe or Asia. They'd have to be just like you said, either spearmen or clubmen.

Too bad that plains tribes were plainly weak at that particular time. Perhaps if the timeline advanced a bit, we could see some of the cavalry archers.

Nevertheless, the option you have just said is actually a very inventive and well-supported idea.

The units in this case, would have to be cavalry archers, maybe some light cavalry(No hussars, though), and perhaps spearmen in horses for all the natives.

I'll add this onto the topic, it will contain all your ideas on it. If it's Ok with you...

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 01-27-2006 @ 09:31 PM).]

posted 01-27-06 09:49 PM EDT (US)     5 / 26  
I'll be happy to let you use my Idea.

Now about fixing that over-powering Chasqui unit...

posted 01-27-06 10:06 PM EDT (US)     6 / 26  
HAHAHAHA!

The Chasquis only defense mechanism is that he runs fast. Sounds kindy chickenly, but he can't attack either. He'll sort of be like that "I love the monkeyhead" cheat for the game, only somewhat slower than him.

Along with new civs. also, how about new maps? I remember them adding the Yucatan in terms of the Maya, but perhaps they could add some other zones such as the Great Plains that they have added in AoE3.

posted 01-27-06 10:29 PM EDT (US)     7 / 26  
The new maps could be for the Inca, the map would be covered in mountains and cliffs on the right side, as a sort of wall, on the other side of this wall gold is plentifull, as well as dear. Players start on the left side of this Mountainous wall.

[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 01-27-2006 @ 10:31 PM).]

posted 01-27-06 10:49 PM EDT (US)     8 / 26  
Well, for maps they would have to take into account what civilizations other than the Inca they are going to add. I mean, they aren't going to make another X-pack just because of one or two civs.

There's this idea of Hungary also being a possibility, but what other civs. could be added?

posted 01-27-06 11:05 PM EDT (US)     9 / 26  
The Russians as well as an african and Indian. civilization.

-The Russian
-UU : Cossack
-Bonus : Cheap Infantry, although they only get the longswordman and not Two-handed swordamn or champion.
-Good cavalry archers.

-The Africans (i don't have any specific civilization name I can't remember any right now)
-Lancer : A lighlty armored cavalry unit, that carries a lance for beating infantry and archers. This is NOT like the heavily armored Eurpoean lancer (Frankish paladin, etc.)
-Hunting and gold mining bonus, less efficiant farming.
-Upgrade for paliside walls (instead of Stone walls) : Wooden Wall. These walls cost wood instead of stone, making them rely less on stone mines. The don't get stone or fortified wall.

-Indians
-UU Elephant Archer : A high Hp Archer base, much like a moving Guard Tower, and fires multiple arrows, like chu-ko-nu.
-Scimitar Swordman : Lightly armored fast infantry, good against archers, and other infantry.

[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 01-27-2006 @ 11:25 PM).]

posted 01-28-06 06:56 PM EDT (US)     10 / 26  
Good.

I really like those. For the Africans, perhaps Egypt, but they were part of the ottomans for a pretty long time after the cruzades.

Also, maybe the Zulu, but I don't know if they were just growing at that time.

You should try make a civilization design on the Russians.
Your U.S. one was very detailed, and you have a "catch" at doing this things.

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 01-28-2006 @ 06:57 PM).]

posted 01-29-06 09:14 AM EDT (US)     11 / 26  
You think I have a "catch" thanks ,

PS. Can I post it here. or should I start a new topic?
___________________________________________________________

For the Africans there are 3 civilizations to choose from :
-Kingdom of Ghana (In west Africa) from 500 to 1100 A.D.
-Kingdom of Mali (west africa) from 1240 to 1359 A.D.
-Kingdom of Songhai (along the timbuktu river) 1009 to 1600. This kingdom established an empire that stretched a thousand miles along the niger river. I think its the best choice.
___________________________________________________________


[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 01-29-2006 @ 11:35 AM).]

posted 01-29-06 10:59 AM EDT (US)     12 / 26  
New topic.

That way the discussion would only be about the Russians.

Also, the more topics about different tribes, then the more ES might be "persuaded" to actually try or even think about a possible AoK X-pack...It's worth the hope.

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 01-29-2006 @ 11:03 AM).]

posted 01-29-06 01:01 PM EDT (US)     13 / 26  
Yes, Songhai sounds the best. They should be accompanied by at least another African Civ., though.

For the other one, either one would do fine. Although the Zulu as a civ. might also be interesting.

I'm trying to find a cost to each of the new units, but I really have no idea what it could be.

[This message has been edited by Novoa20 (edited 01-29-2006 @ 01:05 PM).]

posted 02-06-06 07:39 PM EDT (US)     14 / 26  
I've added some campaigns for the Incas.
posted 03-05-06 12:22 PM EDT (US)     15 / 26  
Hye novoa i like your work on incas and all your interest in Peru, are u peruvian? i would add a jaguar unit to the inca civ. jaguars were brought from the amazonia to fight the spanish dogs and that's one of the reasons dogs were not as effective here as they were in Mexico.
posted 03-05-06 03:00 PM EDT (US)     16 / 26  
No, I'm not from Peru. I am interested in the history of the Americas. I find Peru to be the one with the most interesting history in South America, and probably all of Latin America.

Thanks for the compliment. I really did try to make it something rather unique. I've never gotten quite over why ES didn't add the Incas, since they were the strongest Empire in all of the Americas(Aztecs go in second).

A jaguar unit is actually a very good idea, but it would be rather unfair for a civ. to have more than 2 Unique Units. I'll add it as a possibility, though.

Thanks again for the compliment.

posted 03-05-06 03:39 PM EDT (US)     17 / 26  

Quote:

wanted the Natives to be able to get horses without playing with "All Techs"


That would historically be very incorrect. Natives tought that people on horseback were actually one creature. (all horses in america where brought there by the europeans I tought).

[img]http://www.mastersgames.de/esostats/wthen,AlpineAxe,1,8.png[/img]
posted 03-05-06 04:25 PM EDT (US)     18 / 26  
That wasn't all natives. You're thinking about the Aztecs.

The Incas knew that the Spaniards had "strange beasts"(But they knew that the Spaniards were human), but they didn't fear the horses, they were only fearful of the Guns.

posted 03-05-06 09:56 PM EDT (US)     19 / 26  
yeh... incas noticed horses were kind of big llamas or sthg like that. they knew because Atahualpa sent a spy to see what they did before they even reached Peru and this spy saw the horses making shit.
posted 03-05-06 11:21 PM EDT (US)     20 / 26  
lol.
posted 03-07-06 09:20 PM EDT (US)     21 / 26  
hey novoa... with the xpack announced this could work but for aoe3
posted 03-07-06 10:03 PM EDT (US)     22 / 26  
This is something I am definately rooting for.

Of course, this outline is basically for AoK, but I really hope ES adds the Incas as one of the 3 civs. for they have it really deserved.

posted 03-08-06 07:29 AM EDT (US)     23 / 26  
Nice job. It seems you've done a lot of work on this.
posted 03-09-06 02:26 AM EDT (US)     24 / 26  
@AlpineAxe

All horses around today were brought by the europeans however hundreds of years ago horses were around but the Settler from the 16th+ century had yet to come to america.


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posted 03-10-06 11:05 PM EDT (US)     25 / 26  
Looks pretty good, but the Incas would be unstoppable.....

incas get -15% cost to units by imperial age

and they get +20% building hp, aswell as architecture and masonry........

and 2 uu's

good ideas, but i think they need a little bit of revision


"You, know , one day i might move to Scotland. and then get drunk, then paint woad on my face, then run around with a sword and shield until i get arrested,lol." - some history forum user

Winston Churchill was a member of both the 4th Queens Own Hussars and the 21st Lancers. As a a member of the 21st Lancers, he led one of the last british cavalry charges, against the muslims in sudan.

posted 03-11-06 09:43 AM EDT (US)     26 / 26  
Thanks for your comment Bobby.

Well, the vikings got 2 Unique Units, but that certainly didn't overpower them.

There's also the point that they do not improve their priests like the Aztecs and Mayas(Which is what made those 2 civs. rather strong in terms of healing and converting).

You're right on that about the building getting to 20%.

I'll reduce it to 15%, which is a bit more realistic.

Once again, thanks for your comments Bobby The Second.

Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Future Robot, Bonfire, Windstorm, and NewToy Games Forum » Inca civilization for another possible AoK X-pack.
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