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Topic Subject: Italy for Expansion Pack
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posted 02-08-06 11:47 PM EDT (US)   
I have some ideas for Italy being in the AOE3 Expansion Pack, and I've listed a few.

Italy's Flag

Unique Units:Vatican Swiss Guard, Ragusan Ships, Venetian Razzo, Cardinals, Italian Gendarm, and Lithuanian Boyers
Royal Guard Units:Vatican Swiss Guard, Hussar
Default Home City:Venice
Home City Ruler:Cangrande I della Scala-Italy really didn't have a king or national ruler at the time, besides the Church, but this guy did unify Italy during his reign, and I say he would fit in the time category, maybe a 100 years early, but yah...

Unique Units
1.Vatican Swiss Guard-comes from Unique Church Tech,cards, and barracks, and are essentially super Swiss Pikemen. Prerequisites:Vatican Pikemen upgrade and Royal Guard upgrade

2.Ragusan Ships-Ships like galleons, but have a 50% attack increase and 30% HP increase-the future Spanish Armada at the time

3.Venetian Razzo-Italian rocket that is pretty much the same as the Congreve Rocket, but has 4 more range, and is better against other artillery-Italy actually used rockets before Britain 300 years later-Britain didn't create a Rocket Brigade until the 1800's.

4.Cardinals-healing unit that heals much faster than surgeons, priests, and imams, and can convert units. Also can heal more HP than the listed above. You can only acquire three, though.

5.Italian Gendarm-Italian unique cavalry, with large bonus against inf.-these were the original gendarms, from which the French got their term gendarmes.

6.Lithuanian Boyers-Infantry armed with a lance that have shields and are good against inf. and cav.-merc unit only

Civilization Bonuses
-Starts off with 100 extra gold.
-Very good booming civilization, but not good at turtling, and okay at rushing.
-Venetian traders card grants a 30% increase on all trading posts shipments, and shipment time takes 25% less time.

Civilization Weaknesses
-Does not get any unique units until Fortress age.
-Strong but expensive units
-Lacks crossbowman, skirmishers, caravels, grenadiers, dragoons,halberdiers, and culverins
-Cannot build artillery foundry until Fortress Age
-Villagers cost 50 gold and 50 food, but spawn a little bit faster than normal.

Unique Cards
-Papal States:Grants special church techs, sends 3 cardinals, and gives a 40% decrease in price on all church techs.

-Italian City-States:City-state rivalry grants 20% HP increase on all units, and 15% speed increase on inf.

-Decadence of Catholicism-Sends a shipment of 15 Vatican Swiss Guard.

-Venetian Traders:Grants a 30% increase on all trading posts shipments, and shipment time takes 25% less time.

-Chinese Influence:Sends 3 Venetian Razzos.

-Renaissance Culture:Villager gathering rates increase 15% and 10% decrease in villager spawning time.

-Lithuanian Boyers:Sends 10 Lithuanian Boyers.

-Return of Slavery:Sends 5 villagers from HC-note:at the time, there was a large rebirth of slavery in Southern Europe, many of whom were Muslims, Spaniards, and Eastern Europe refugees.

-Roman Cavalry Tactics:Increases speed and attack of cav. by 15%.

-Legionaries:Increases inf. HP by 15% and attack by 10%.

-Architecture Reformation:Increases building HP by 30%.

-Galileo:Knowledge of the stars and planets decreases market trading costs, and decreases shipment send time by 10%.

-Sacred College: Increases Cardinals speed by 15%, HP by 20%, and range by 3.

Unique Unit Stats-bear with me

Vatican Swiss Pikemen

First available: Industrial Age
Cost:100 Food 100 Gold and come from Unique Church Tech and Home City
Hitpoints:400
Speed:4
Resists:
30% vs Hand
Bonuses: x3 vs Cavalry
Attacks:
Name Damage
Siege-----------------75
CoverBuildingAttack---60
CoverHandAttack-------35
Melee-----------------45

Ragusan Ships

First available: Fortress Age
Cost: 500 Wood 500 Gold
Hitpoints:1950
Speed:8.5
Resists:75% vs Ranged
Bonuses:x0.5 vs Artillery
Ranged Attack 75
Bombard Attack-not yet known
Range: 20

Venetian Razzo

First available: Industrial Age
Cost: 200 Wood 500 Gold
Hitpoints:400
Speed:4
Resists:75% vs Ranged
Bonuses:x1.0 vs Artillery
Attacks: 450
Range: 32

Cardinal

First available: Fortress Age
Cost: Comes from HC
Hitpoints:600
Speed:5
Resists:10% vs Ranged
Attacks: 5
Recover Rate: 2.5x that of priests

Italian Gendarm

First available: Fortress Age
Cost: 200 Food 150 Gold
Hitpoints:500
Speed:6.3
Resists:20% vs Ranged
Attacks:
Siege 30
Guardian Attack 30
Melee 35
Trample 20

Lithuanian Boyer

First available: Fortress Age
Cost: 800 Gold
Hitpoints:350
Speed:6.5
Resists:
30% vs Ranged
Bonuses:
x3 vs Infantry and Cavalry
Attacks:
Siege 30
Melee 25
Guardian Attack 20


I've got to go right now, but I'm not finished and I'll revise it in the tomorrow.--scratch that.


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[This message has been edited by Custergrant (edited 02-11-2006 @ 04:08 PM).]

Replies:
posted 02-09-06 02:47 AM EDT (US)     1 / 72  
I think the pope is op, and the fact there are 6 UUs and the rocket shouldn't be there as it would make the brits worse, since they would only have 1 UU.

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posted 02-09-06 04:27 AM EDT (US)     2 / 72  
Mind you, Joeking, these are simply ideas.

...and very good ones at that.


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posted 02-09-06 04:40 AM EDT (US)     3 / 72  
Certainly some good ground work there, though most of the unique's appear to be OP. If I had to garantee a civ for the expansion I'd choose Italy, I consider them practically a lock, it will be interesting to see what direction they use.
posted 02-09-06 05:35 PM EDT (US)     4 / 72  
It looks like you just stole other civs UUs... Rockets? Gendarmes? Dismounted Lancers?

(¯`._.[~Anuknight~ ]._.´¯)
posted 02-09-06 05:42 PM EDT (US)     5 / 72  

Quoted from Custergrant:

-Pope Assassination Attempt-Sends a shipment of 15 Vatican Swiss Guard.

Lol. That would be really ethically wrong.


Really, I like your idea, it's rather interesting.

I think the HC should be Venice.


If ES didn't add Italy as a Civilization for the X-pack, I'd really be very dissappointed.

posted 02-09-06 05:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 72  
I'm about to edit the thing.

I was in fact planning the default HC to be Venice.

As far as the units being copied from others, look at my side notes, and you'll notice that Italy had a lot of those units way before the AOE3 civs did. And once I finish the post, you won't think Italy will be so OP.


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posted 02-09-06 05:54 PM EDT (US)     7 / 72  
Good job! I was going to do Italy, but couldn't find enough info. Although I would recommend taking out the rocket, and the Pope, giving their preists more healing, with a unique tech, like "The Shroud of Turin" or "Cardinals." A bonus should be instead of the food, that their priests can also convert enemy units.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 02-09-06 07:09 PM EDT (US)     8 / 72  
Alright, I think I have it ready now. I'm sure I left some stuff out, but it should be better now.

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posted 02-09-06 07:32 PM EDT (US)     9 / 72  
The Pope and Vactican Swiss Pikeman are just too.. I don't know about them. They don't seem to fit. The Pope would not be risking themselves in the New World, and the Vactican Swiss Pikeman is simply too much like the Swiss Pikeman Mercenary unit. The Royal Guard upgrade for the Italian Pikeman could amke them Vactican Pikemen though.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 02-09-06 07:38 PM EDT (US)     10 / 72  
The pope thing is a little tricky with me too. But right now, this is pretty much just a rough draft type of thing. Last night, I thought, hey, it would be cool to have Italy in the Expansion Pack, so what the hey, I'll post some ideas up.

About the whole Vatican Swiss Guard I was thinking about what you said too, and I thought I put that down in the revision, but I guess I'll add it.

Colonial Age: Pikemen
Fortress Age: Vatican Pikemen
Industrial Age: Vatican Swiss Guard (royal guard units)

That way, they can be a barracks unit, and not only be created by shipments and the church tech.

I have an idea on the pope deal, and I'll post it, and see how it fares.


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posted 02-09-06 07:56 PM EDT (US)     11 / 72  
Yeah, now the Vactican Pikemen are awsome!

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 02-09-06 08:01 PM EDT (US)     12 / 72  
That way, if this does come out, the "main" unique unit can be the Vatican Swiss Guard, which is what I intended it to be. This way, it'll provide strategy. Probably to do a fast Industrial, so we can get the royal guard upgrade, and wreak havoc .

EDIT: Is the whole pope ordeal seem fixed now?


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[This message has been edited by Custergrant (edited 02-09-2006 @ 08:01 PM).]

posted 02-09-06 08:09 PM EDT (US)     13 / 72  

Quoted from Custergrant:

-Galileo:Knowledge of the stars and planets decreases market trading costs, and decreases shipment send time by 10%.

What about Da Vinci? Not only was he a great painter, but he was also a great scientists.

His works were the basic fundations to today's planes and helicopters.

Leonardo would really deserve a place in an Italian civ. of this era.

posted 02-09-06 08:13 PM EDT (US)     14 / 72  
Da Vinci and many others could have been listed. And nobody said I was finished, I just posted this to see how it would do. I almost put something down for Da Vinci, but then I thought about Galileo, and me wanting Italy to be a big trading civ.(which they were in real life), figured that advancements in astrology improved trade by sea, and seafaring altogether. I might put something down for Da Vinci here in a sec, but I'm working on some other things at the moment.

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posted 02-09-06 08:24 PM EDT (US)     15 / 72  
I saw a speicial on the Vatican Swiss guard, and i heard they were actually Hablerdiers, maybe they could be a faster moving Halberdier upgrade unit.

The again i would like it if they looked unique, maybe a complete replacement of the pikeman, or halberdier, whichever way you want to go.


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posted 02-09-06 08:56 PM EDT (US)     16 / 72  
Yes, I believe the Pope deal is fixed. Don't worry though, I had this problem with my Ninja.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 02-09-06 09:14 PM EDT (US)     17 / 72  
Yamato, I know you had the same problem with the ninja. Your idea is pretty good too. It would be really cool if ES actually used our ideas, but fat chance of that. They will definately take input from us and such. At least it wasn't really hard to find information on Japan. Italy is really hard to find any good miliarty information for this time period.

I actually have like a ton more stuff for Italy, but it would be too big to be on here, IMO. But I might post it up elsewhere.

BTW, glad the pope ordeal has been fixed.


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[This message has been edited by Custergrant (edited 02-09-2006 @ 09:15 PM).]

posted 02-09-06 09:46 PM EDT (US)     18 / 72  
This scares me a bit. The bonuses are common and spread out all over the board, the Cardinal's conversion ability terrifies my slow-moving artillery and skirmishers, their booms would make a French player shit his pants, and I would HATE using Goons, Cuirs, or any cavalry against them. Crap, all I can think of doing against them is panicking.


Too many +XX%s, increases in efficiency, and overall buffness. You gotta have a streak of sadism put in your creations, or the'll always be a bit on the OP side.

posted 02-09-06 09:51 PM EDT (US)     19 / 72  
There really isn't all that much bonuses for military units. I have a lot of % bonuses for them, but they vary in different things.

This is supposed to be a booming civ, BTW.

They do need more drawbacks, I agree, and I am thinking of some good ways to achieve this at the moment. Check with me later about it, and it should be more balanced.--Wow, I feel like ES now .


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posted 02-09-06 10:07 PM EDT (US)     20 / 72  

Quote:

There really isn't all that much bonuses for military units. I have a lot of % bonuses for them, but they vary in different things.
This is supposed to be a booming civ, BTW.

They do need more drawbacks, I agree, and I am thinking of some good ways to achieve this at the moment. Check with me later about it, and it should be more balanced.--Wow, I feel like ES now.


Fair enough. You have obviously put a lot of thought and effort into this, so I'm not going to totally rage on you or anything. It's a swell job so far, really.

Here, a suggestion for DaVinci:

-------------------------------------
Unique Church Card tech-
DaVinci's Manuscripts
-15% on research time and -10% to building construction time, +10% on unit production time or -10% to settler gather rate, haven't decided

Leonardo DaVinci studied many topics in his life, from military mechanisms to biological functions. His research assisted many fields of research, and helping simplify many engineering processes. However, his wandering spirit often led to procrastinate during projects and stall from completing a task.
------------------------------------

There. It's not 100% accurate, but it would do for the purposes.

[This message has been edited by Ofaloaf (edited 02-09-2006 @ 10:07 PM).]

posted 02-09-06 10:28 PM EDT (US)     21 / 72  
Nice DaVinci tech. It's kind of like the British Thin Red Line thing-good and bad.

I don't mind criticism at all. If you feel there is something wrong, tell me. If it wasn't for criticism, this would still be a crappy idea. I've revised quite a bit through that.

And as far as the units being OP, they may look OP, but they cost a lot. Look at their similar counterparts, and these guys are better, but much more expensive.


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posted 02-10-06 00:08 AM EDT (US)     22 / 72  
Sorry for double-posting, but I have revised it yet again to 1.03.

-Fixed some balance issues
-Fixed some grammar mistakes
-Added a couple techs

I think I have the whole this is OP thing fixed. First of all, villes now cost 50 gold and 50 food. Another thing is that these guys are pretty much like Otto's in terms of number of military units. In terms of units per category(infantry, ships, cavalry, etc...), Italy is behind in everyone, except cavalry. Unlike the Ottomans, though, Italy will not be able to pull off a very good rush, considering the ville cost change. This should fix any OP problems for the time being.


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posted 02-10-06 05:37 PM EDT (US)     23 / 72  
Looks good.
posted 02-10-06 09:42 PM EDT (US)     24 / 72  
What about a St. Peter's Basilica card? It could make buildings cost like 15% less wood, or something like that.

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posted 02-11-06 09:20 AM EDT (US)     25 / 72  
I agree, it looks pretty sweet now.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
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