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Topic Subject: AOE4: AOE1 remake ideas.
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posted 04-06-06 04:36 AM EDT (US)   
Three new Vanilla civs added - Bactrians, Thracians and Scythians!

- - - -

Expansion Pack out!

- - - -

I quite enjoyed making my Greek AOM2 civilization, so I decided to come up with some possible ideas for an AOE4 game, if it were to become a remake of the original game.

Originally, my big plan was to have the original game based around the Bronze Age and earlier civilizations, such as the Egyptians, Hittites, Jomons and Mycenaeans, and for the expansion to cover the advancement into Rome's peak. However, it pretty much came to me that those would have to be completely different games. Because the Bronze age civilizations were harder to research (and less interesting, I'd say) I decided to go with civilizations from 600-1BC. Along with the typical Roman and Greek civilizations, there are also Yayoi-Yamato (Japan) and Zhou-Qin (China) factions, which should add some variety and regain some of the eastern feel of the original game.

If you can think of any better ideas or ones to add onto (and perhaps some different Yayoi and Zhou units - they were a pain in the arse to research) then you're very welcome to.

Civilizations:
Rome
Hellas
Carthage
Persia
India
Macedonia
Egypt
Celts (Gauls, Britons, Germanics, etc.)
Yamato
Zhou-Qin Dynasties


Rome:
-Infantry +15% siege attack
-Siege +20% speed
-Buildings +25% hitpoints
Bonus: For each building of one type built, their cost is depleted by 10% for the next.
Example: 1st house built costs 100 wood, second costs 90 etc.

Hellas:
-Infantry +20% hitpoints
-Warships +25% speed
-Age advancement time –30%
Bonus: Two types of villagers: Citizen unit costs extra, but builds and gathers faster than others, can be used as a man-at-arms and does not require any drop-off point for resources, and Helot unit is cheaper and costs no population but poor at gathering, building and has a training limit of 25.

Persia:
-Can build extra mercenaries, forges alliances quicker.
-Cavalry +15% speed
-Archers +20% hitpoints
Bonus: Trains infantry and villagers in bulk, +25 population limit and starts off with more population.

Celts:
-Infantry +20% speed
-Infantry +15% attack
-Buildings –30% cost
Bonus: Houses spawn Shleiyders once built.

Macedon:
-Infantry +15% melee and range defence
-Cavalry +15% melee and range defence
-Cavalry –15% cost
Bonus: Town Centre has ranged attack even without garrisoned units.

Egypt:
- Cavalry 15% cheaper
- Priests train and heal 100% faster
- Chariot Archers +30% speed
Bonus: Town Center heals allied units.

Carthage:
-Mercenaries stronger, all stats +5%.
-Mercenaries -15% cost
-Naval units +20% hitpoints
Bonus: Tribute is given once aging up (+20% of current total resources)

India:
- Ranged units 100% accuracy
- Gold slowly generates from your Town Centres. The more Town Centres, the faster gold generates.
- Gold mining 15% faster
Bonus: 2 free Four-Horse Chariots for every Stable built

Yayoi-Yamato:
-Archers +15% attack
-Archers +20% speed
-Villagers +100% attack
Bonus: Starts with two different heroes.

Zhou-Qin:
-Buildings built 30% faster
-Villagers –15% cost
-Chariot archers +30% attack
Bonus: Villagers can be trained into cavalry militia at a cost, and can be upgraded.

New!
Bactria:
-Cavalry +25 LOS
-Cavalry +15% Range Distance and Accuracy
-+10% Defense against Hellas or Macedon infantry
Bonus: Cavalry does trample damage

New!
Scythia:
-Ranged units (except for ships) attack 50% faster
-Villagers hunt and gather gold 5% faster
-Human units heal automatically
Bonus. Enaree can build Sacred Fires, which give a special bonus to units around them.

New!
Thrace:
-Human units +15% HP
-Infantry deal +10% more damage against units belonging to a civilization advanced at a higher age than Thracian player
-Light infantry +25% speed
Bonus: Enemy Town Centre locations automatically revealed on mini-map

Dark Age > Archaic Age > Classical Age > Iron Age > Empire Age

Buildings:
Town Centre – Provides 10 population, trains villagers, scouts and can revive heroes. Build in age 2
House – Provides 10 population, building limit is 15. Age 1
Granary – Food drop site point for villager units, with the exception of the Greek Citizen. Age 1
Storehouse - Wood drop site point for villager units, with the exception of the Greek Citizen. Age 1
Mining Camp - Coin drop site point for villager units, with the exception of the Greek Citizen. Age 1
Watch Tower – Defensive tower with good line of sight and a ranged attack, building limit is 20. Age 1
Market – Researches economical upgrades, builds merchants, allows tribute, can trade to other allied markets with merchants. Age 1
Dock – Builds naval units and researches their upgrades. Age 1
Farm – Villagers tasked on a farm can slowly gather an unlimited supply of food, wood or gold. Age 2
Wall – Defensive building that can be turned into a gate. Age 1
Tent – Can only be built by infantry. Adds 5 population, building limit is 10. Age 2
Armoury – Researches military improvements, required for advancing to the Classical Age. Age 2
Barracks – Trains heavy (melee) and light (ranged) infantry and researches upgrades. Age 2
Stable – Trains heavy (melee) and light (ranged) cavalry, and researches upgrades. Age 2
Workshop – Trains siege units and researches upgrades. Age 3
Stronghold – Huge building that trains any military unit except siege and has a strong ranged attack; building limit is 6, required for advancing to the Iron Age. Age 3
Government House - Researches unique civilization techs. Build limit 1. Age 3
Shipyard – Automatically heals all allied units around it. Build limit 1. Age 3
Temple – Trains priests and automatically heals all allied units around it. Age 3
Academy – Trains the Civilizations unique Guardian unit and researches their upgrades. Age 4
Wonder – Supreme building that can solve a stalemate. Age 5

Mercenaries

Mercenary Government Houses appear in different maps and contain different units. They are similar to native settlements in AOE3, but no technologies are researched and the mercenaries are generally particularly powerful. Like AOE3, they only cost coin. There is a build limit to each mercenary, although they don't take up any of your populaton.

To train mercenaries, garrison a Hero unit in any Mercenary Government House (for 100 gold) to make the unit available to your own military buildings. Once the Hero is ungarrisoned, the mercenaries are no longer available, however he can be garrisoned again. No more than one hero can be garrisoned a Government House at one time.

Mercenary Units:
Afrikaan Crane Shieldbarer
Afrikaan Spear Thrower
Assyrian Pikeman
Assyrian Iron Rider
Babylonian Marksman
Batasea Fanatic
Dacian Falxman
Germanic Clubman
Hebrew Slinger
Hittite Charioteer
Iberian Caetrati
Iberian Scutari
Indian Bull Chariot
Malayan Kali
Minoan Toxote
North African War Elephant
Nubian Chariot Archer
Nubian Raider
Numidian Cavalry
Parthian Cataphract
Phoenician Trireme
Roman Mamertine
Skiritan Outrunner
Scythian Archer
Thracian Peltast
Thracian Rhomphaia Warrior

Maps:
Acropolis – teams start on a defensive plateau
Arabia- mountainous area with good hunting and plentiful gold mines, but little wood.
Anatolia – deserted area with starting military buildings and sometimes water
Biscay – half land, half ocean
Black Sea – a large area of water surrounded by land
Cyclades – many islands may separate teams
Crete – large Island with many mountains
Illyria – coastal
Highlands – mountain routes separate teams
Gaul –mountainous area with plenty of forests
India – jungle area with plenty of wood and occasionally lakes
Kushite Kingdoms- players have to destroy Kushite Forces scattered across the map in addition to beating the enemy player.
Libyan Desert – resources are low, and no water
Nile – a long river separates teams
Savanah- Featuring exotic animals like lions and water buffalo, the Savanah has abundant resources.
Sicilia – players start on small islands and must relocate south to Sicilia for survival
Southeast – coastal with small islands and extra starting resources
Syria – a long coast runs down the left side of the map
Thrace – grassland with some trapping valleys, gold and silver guarded by Thracians

Mercenary Appearances:
Arabia: Assyrian Pikeman, Assyrian Iron Rider, Babylonian Marksman
Acropolis: Skiritan Outrunner
Anatolia: Scythian Archer, Thracian Peltast, Thracian Rhomphaia
Biscay: Iberian Caetrati and Scutari
Black Sea: Dacian Falxman, Scythian Archer
Crete: Minoan Toxote, Phoenician Trireme
Cyclades: Minoan Toxote, Phoenician Trireme
Gaul: Batasea Fanatic, Germanic Clubman
Highlands: Batasea Fanatic
Illyria: Roman Mamertine, German Clubman
India: Indian Mahout, Indian Bull Chariot
Libyan Desert: North African Elephant, Numidian Cavalry
Kushite Kingdoms: Nubian Raider, Nubian Chariot Archer
Nile: North African Elephant, Numidian Cavalry, Assyrian Pikeman, Assyrian Cavalry Archer
Savanah- Afrikaan Crane Shield Bearer, Afrikaan Spear Thrower
Syria: Hebrew Slinger, Hittite Charioteer, Parthian Cataphract
Sicilia: Roman Mamertine
Southeast: Malayan Kali, Indian Bull Chariot
Thrace: Thracian Peltast and Rhomphaia Warrior

Heroes
A Hero unit is not intended to scout, like the AOE3 Explorer. However, it’s the only unit that can allow you to train mercenaries and boost morale. Names (and perhaps also appearances) are customable. Heroes have different attack abilities for each civilization. The Hero is available at the start of the game, although his stats are initially weak. They develop overtime.

Carthage – Mahout Hero
Celts –Infantry Hero
Hellas – Infantry Hero
India - Mahout Hero
Macedon – Cavalry Hero
Persia – Cavalry Hero
Roman Empire – Infantry Hero
Yayoi-Yamato – Cavalry Archer and Infantry Hero
Zhou-Qin – Cavalry Archer Hero
Bactria- Cavalry hero
Thrace - Cavalry hero
Scythia - Cavalry Archer Hero

Unit/Building sets:

Classical Greco: Hellas/Macedon
Roma: Roman Empire/Carthage
Middle Eastern: Persia/Egyptian/Indian/Bactrian
New Dynasty Asian: Yayoi-Yamato/Zhou-Qin
Celtic: Celts

Shared Units

Infantry:
Man-at-Arms – cavalry counter
Swordsman – infantry counter
Javelineer – archer counter

Cavalry:
Raider – archer counter
Companion– archer and siege counter
Chariot Archer –cavalry counter (available to Egypt and Zhou)
Mounted Bowman – cavalry counter (available to Persia, Bactria, Scythia and Yayoi-Yamato)
Mounted Javelineer– cavalry counter (available to Hellas, Thrace, Rome, Celts, Macedon and Carthage)

Archer:
Sagitarius – infantry counter
Slinger – archer counter
Gastraphetes – building and archer counter

Siege:
Capped Ram – building counter
Oxybeles – infantry and archer counter
Onager – siege and ship counter
Helepolis – building counter, transports

Navy:
Fisherman – fishing boat
Hepteres – scout and merchant ship, light attack
Trireme – transport ship with a medium attack
Liburna – war ship with heavy attack
Juggernaut – siege ship with heavy attack

Guardian unit:

An extensively powerful unit unique for each civilization that is expensive and hard to mass. It can be infantry, cavalry or archer, depending on the civ. While it is a very strong unit, it’s not essential to an army’s survival, and should still be backed up by other units in war.

Unique Units:


Hoplite (Replaces Man-at-Arms - Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Ekdromos (Replaces Swordsman - Light Infantry – infantry counter)
Sphendonotes (Replaces Slinger – Light Archer – archer counter)
Spartiate (Guardian Unit - Heavy Infantry – non-Hellenic, cavalry and infantry counter)


Hastatus (Replaces Swordsman- Heavy Infantry – infantry counter)
Velite (Replaces Javelineer - Light Infantry – archer counter)
Ballista (Replaces Oxybeles – Siege – archer and infantry counter)
Praetorian: (Guardian Unit- Heavy Infantry – non-Roman and infantry counter)


Mede (Replaces Man-at-Arms - Light Infantry – cavalry counter)
Asabari (Replaces Raider - Light cavalry – archer counter)
Sagartian Lasso (Heavy Cavalry – cavalry and archer counter)
Athanatoi (Guardian Unit - Heavy archer – non-Persian and infantry counter)


Shleiyder: (Replaces Man-at-Arms - Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Avernian: (Light Infantry – archer and siege counter)
Gaesati: (Replaces Swordsman – Light Infantry – infantry counter)
Matara Covinus: (Guardian Unit - Cavalry archer – non-Celtic and infantry counter)


Phalangite: (Replaces Man-at-arms – Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Hypaspiste: (Replaces Swordsman – Heavy Infantry – infantry counter)
Prodomos: (Replaces Raider – Light Cavalry – archer counter)
Hetairoi: (Guardian Unit – Heavy Cavalry – non-Macedonian, archer and infantry counter)


Libyan Spearman: (Replaces Man-at-arms – Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Balaeric Slinger (Replaces Slinger– Light Archer – archer and infantry counter)
Imperial Elephant: (Special version of the North African War Elephant mercenary – Heavy Cavalry)
Sacred Band: (Guardian Unit – Heavy Infantry – non-Carthaginian, archer counter)


Halberdier: (Replaces Man-at-Arms – Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Corvee Staffman: (Light Infantry – infantry and archer counter)
Tiger Chariot: (Replaces Cataphract – Heavy Cavalry – archer and infantry counter)
Zheng Crossbow: (Guardian Unit – Heavy Archer – non-Zhou Qin, infantry counter)


Tanto: (Replaces Swordsman - Light infantry – infantry counter)
Yumi: (Replaces Sagitarius – Light Archer – infantry counter)
Longswordsman: (Heavy Infantry – cavalry counter)
Sakamori: (Guardian Unit – Heavy Cavalry – non-Yayoi, cavalry and archer counter)


Khopeshman (Replaces Swordsman- Heavy infantry- Infantry Counter)
Fustbalus (Replaces Slinger- Heavy Archer- Added building bonus)
Camelry (Replaces Cataphract- Light Cavalry- archer and villager counter)
Temple Guard (Guardian Unit- Ranged Infantry- non-Egyptian and Cavalry counter)


Lightbowman: (Replaces Sagitarius - Light Archer - Infantry Counter)
Four-Horse Chariot: (Replaces Mounted Bowmen - Heavy Cavalry Archer - Siege and Infantry Counter)
Mahout: (Replaces Oxybeles and Mounted Javilineer - Heavy Cavalry)
Maiden Guard: (Guardian Unit - Non-Indian and Cavalry Counter)


Saka Horse Archer (Replaces Mounted Bowman - Light Cavalry - Cavalry Counter)
Cretan Mercenary (Replaces Slinger and Sagitarius - Light Archer - Infantry and Archer Counter)
Arachosian Javalineer (Replaces Mounted Javalineer - Light Archer - Cavalry and Building Counter)
Iranian Lancer (Guardian Unit - Non-Bactrian Counter


Enaree – (Replaces Priest, can build Sacred Fires and heal units, slightly larger attack than other religious units)
Sagaris – (Replaces Swordsman, good against heavy infantry)
Thanvbara – (Replaces Sagitarius, light infantry good against light and heavy infantry)
Asapatish – (Guardian unit, Light Cavalry, cavalry, siege and non-Scythian counter)


Peltast – (Replaces Javelinist, Light Infantry, archer counter)
Curved Clubman – (Replaces Swordsman, Heavy Infantry, infantry counter)
Getai Noble – (Replaces Mounted Javelineer, Light Cavalry, cavalry counter)
Dii Highlander – (Guardian unit, Heavy Infantry, infantry, cavalry and non-Thracian counter)


CAMPAIGN

The campaign is divided into 5 acts, each one set in a different period of the Iron age.

These scenerois follow stories and include many cut scenes, like the AOM and AOE3 campaigns. However, there is much more historical interest, as was the case in the first two games. While you fight in important battles, you also control main characters personally and follow their lives. The stories aren’t necessarily linked, there is no sort of “fountain of youth” or “circle of Ossus” involved. Common themes, however, include conquering, oppression and patriotism.

Act 1: The Rising East
A campaign that shares the tales of two great Asian nations – the Zhou and Qin dynasties in China, and the Yayoi-Yamatos in Japan. In the first part of the campaign, you will learn the basics of battle and strategy as you bring the Yayoi-Yamato people from prehistory to a classical period. In the second part of the act, the Qin dynasty has begun. Follow Emperor Qin Shi Huang with the building of the Great Wall and the Terracotta army, as China unites and fights against barbarians from the north.
Civilizations featured: Yayoi-Yamato, Zhou-Qin, India

Act 2: Heroes of Hellas
The one warring city-states of Greece unite against the enormous invading Persian army. Featuring such famous battles as Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea, and starring heroes that include Militiades, Themistokles and Leonidas. Starts from the Ionian revolt.
Civilizations featured: Hellas, Thrace, Scythia, Persia (includes Indian, Bactrian and Egyptian units)

Act 3: King of the World
Follow the footsteps of Alexander the Great after the murder of his father. Conquer the east in many exciting battles forming brilliant strategies along the way. Fight in the legendary Granicus River battle, Issos, the Siege of Tyros and Hydaspes until the fall of Alexander himself.
Civilizations featured: Macedonia, Hellas, India, Persia, Egypt, Bactria, Thrace, Scythia and Zhou-Qin

Act 4: Road to Rome
3rd Century BC: the Second Punic War in Italy. Hannibal Barca is set to destroy Rome – and you’re going to help him attempt this seemingly impossible feat. From the crossing of the Iberian Peninsula and the Alps to Trebia and the Battle of Cannae, Hannibal and his war elephants will hold no mercy against the Roman dogs.
Civilizations featured: Carthage, Rome (In Expansion, Iberians are included)

Act 5: Roman Supremacy
The final act. Rome is expanding, and Julius Caesar is leading the way in the Gallic War against the Gauls. In this most adventurous campaign, you will defeat the Helvetii and Veneti, fight in the battle of Alesia against Vercingetorix and even attempt to invade the British Isles. Can you help him succeed?
Civilizations featured: Rome, Celts

_______________________________
Age of Empires 4: Enemies of Rome

This exciting new expansion introduces the Huns, Iberians, Parthians and Goths into the game, featuring two new single player campaigns, more units, maps, mercenaries and more!

Huns:
-Ranged cavalry +5% all stats
-No houses, extra buildings give population
-Plundering through razing buildings gives extra resources.
Bonus: Buildings can be transported anywhere across the map using carts.

Goths:
-Starts off with 200 population, but no wood
-Age Advancement is 25% cheaper
-Villagers gather all food faster
Bonus: Free Roman Guardian Praetorian unit for each military building built

Iberia:
-Human units +10% attack
-Human units +10% armour
-Starts with four watch towers
Bonus: Units can move through forests.

(I suppose this would be the right time to say that forests in this game are not like those in AOE3, and cannot be walked through by non-Iberian units).

Parthia:
-All mounted units –20% cost
-All improvements –20% cost
-Infantry units – 30% cost, but –10% hitpoints, speed and attack
Bonus: Ranged units can shoot while moving.

New Unique Units[/b]:


At Asker - Cavalry – replaces raider – excellent against villagers and infantry
Sise Effendi – Archer – replaces Gastraphetes – good against buildings and infantry
Tarken – cavalry – replaces companion – good against buildings and archers
Kawwasz – Guardian unit – good against non-Huns, archers and cavalry


Cadariou – Heavy Infantry – replaces man-at-arms -cavalry counter
Bogafers - Light Infantry – replaces Sagittarius - archer counter
Turma – Heavy Cavalry – replaces raider - infantry counter
Warband – Heavy Infantry – Guardian unit - non-Gothic, archer counter


Saunion – Light Infantry – replaces javelineer – archer and infantry counter
Caetrati – Heavy Cavalry – replaces companion – archer counter
Scutari – Heavy Infantry – replaces swordsman – infantry and cavalry counter
Devotio – Heavy Infantry – Guardian unit – non-Iberian, all units counter

(Caetrati and Scutari mercenaries from the original game have been scrapped. There are now new unit skins and stats for these expansion units. Only available to Iberia.)


Hamspah – Light Cavalry – replaces raider – good against archers and villagers
Griwbanar – Heavy Cavalry – replaces Companion – Good against archers and buildings
Steed Archer – Light Cavalry – replaces Mounted Archer – good against cavalry
Cataphract – Guardian Unit – Heavy Cavalry – good against non-Parthian units and infantry

(Cataphract mercenary has been scrapped from the original game. Now has new unit skins and stats and is only available to Parthia.)

New Shared Units:
Flamethrower: Contrary to popular belief, early Chinese and other cultures used ancient flamethrowers “tubes” as early as fifth century BC. Now you can finally use them in a game. This light infantry unit is devastating against both units and buildings, but is expensive, slow and has a minimal range. Age 4.

Virus Marauder: When tasked on any enemy building, the Virus Marauder will slowly suck the HP of any enemy units that are around it. It takes longer to poison a larger and more expensive building than a cheaper one. Even after the Marauder is killed, the building will still suck HP from surrounding units until it is destroyed or deleted. Weak against all units and cannot fight, only sabotage. Age 2.

New Shared Buildings:
Archimedes Claw: A building that acts as a unit. This construct destroys any boats that cruise past it. Age 4.

Mirror Tower: Another construct invented by Archimedes. Very powerful against units, but has a minimum range. Age 4.

New Campaigns:

Act 6: Revenge
The Iberians, Goths and Parthians fight back against Roman invaders. Semi-fictional, but includes plenty of important figures and battles over a period of time.
Civilizations featured: Iberians, Goths, Parthians, Romans, Celts, Carthage

Act 7: The Scourge of God
Follow Attila and the Huns as they ravage, pillage and set flames to the European countryside!
Civilizations featured: Huns, Goths, Romans, Celts

------------------
Coming soon: Unit availability list, list of new mercenaries.

Many thanks to Yamato Take for his Egyptian civilization, map and mercenary ideas, and also Lord Iarune for his Indian and Bactrian civilizations, maps and mercenaries.

[This message has been edited by Dieneces (edited 08-15-2006 @ 08:04 AM).]

Replies:
posted 04-06-06 05:35 PM EDT (US)     1 / 123  
Awsome ideas, although I still think Egypt should be in there. I'll see if I can find some "Yamato" units later, being a Japanese "historian."

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-06-06 06:10 PM EDT (US)     2 / 123  
Great idea, but the navy is the same as AOE3.

I'd like to see more of a RON type navy - rock paper scissors, instead of just "My ship owns yours cause it's bigger."


Anyway, hooray for Hebrew units! I always wanted to see them somewhere in AOE - I even made a campaign in AOE2, using the entire story from the Torah (Jewish Bible thing).


If you stereotype children as stupid flamers, I hate you, me being thirteen.

"Physical activity is for pansies. Real men play Age of Empires." - Me

You can rearange the letters in "mother in law" to spell "woman hitler".

posted 04-06-06 08:21 PM EDT (US)     3 / 123  
Yeah, sorry about the navy. I didn't research it enough, but I agree that an idea where units can board other ships would be really cool. Well, RaF and 0 A.D. are both doing things like that, so it'd be interesting to see how this works. Perhaps navy counter units ala AOM would work, too.

As for the Egyptians, I tried fitting them in (in fact, you can still see traces of them that I forgot to edit out, like the Chariot Archers), but their peak was earlier, back in the Bronze age. However, if you have any good plans for their units, don't hesitate to suggest them. All I could think of was like, Khopesh swordsmen and Temple Guards. Maybe a Camelry unit, too.

posted 04-07-06 10:48 AM EDT (US)     4 / 123  
i think that the next AOE shood be stuff like WW1 2 and go far into the future like in empirer earth what do you thank?oh and a great story line based on real events.and non real for the future.in aoe3 it did end in the 1900s right?

[This message has been edited by johnnyboy210 (edited 04-07-2006 @ 10:53 AM).]

posted 04-07-06 10:56 AM EDT (US)     5 / 123  
Agree, something like: AoEIV "insert some cool title"
and expentionpacks=> "Rise of the sun" and "The cold war"

Emperor of the Benelux
Founder of the Commonwealth of Planets
Founder and CEO of JF
posted 04-07-06 02:16 PM EDT (US)     6 / 123  
I think it should be different:

ages: stone age, bronze age, iron age, imperial age

civs: Greek, Roman, Persian, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, Hittite, Carthage, Celts, Macedonia

Asian civs might be included in the X-pack

Regular units:

Infantry:
Bowmen (anti-infantry, long range)
javalin (anti-infantry, short range, more HP and damage than archer)
Slinger (anti-archer)
swordsman (basic, cheap, weak infantry, easy to mass, doesn't really counter anything)
spearman (anti-cavalry)

Cavalry:
Scout
Light cavalry counters archers
Chariots powerful units with both melee and ranged attack
cavalry archer anti-cavalry

Siege:
Ballista ancient falconet
Ram good vs buildings
Onager ancient heavy cannon

Civs:
defensive civs have economic bonusses and have better walls and towers
offensive civs have military bonusses (like faster training) and can build rams earlier

Greek: no chariots, no cav archers, defensive civ, can train hoplites (slow but extremely powerful infantry, can defeat almost every melee unit) and peltasts (skirmisker with decent melee)

Roman: no chariots, no cav archers, offensive civ, can train Principes (very powerful swordsmen that can throw javelins) and Triarii (powerful spearmen)

Persian: no spearmen, offensive civ, can train war elephants (tanks) and cataphracts (heavy anti-infantry)

Babylon: defensive civ, can train Babylonian archers (improved archers) and camels

Assyria: offensive civ, can train Scythed Chariots (can be compared with cuirassiers, no ranged attack)

Egypt: defensive civ, can train Khopesh swordsmen (fast swordsmen) and camels (anti-cav) (thanks for the ideas Dieneces)

Hittite: defensive civ, can train hittite archer (archer that can fight well in melee) and hittite chariot (weak chariot with long range, bonus vs cavalry)

Carthage: no chariots, offensive civ, can train pikemen (spearmen that are extremely good vs cavalry but weak against anything else), War elephants and Heavy cavalry (slower but stronger than light cavalry, anti-archer)

Celts: no chariots, no cav archers, no ballista, no onagers, offensive civ, can train axemen (cheap infantry, can easily be massed), raiders (anti-building), noble cavalry (melee, better than light cavalry) and hunters (powerful archers)

Macedon: no chariots, no cav archers, offensive civ, can train hypaspist (weaker than hoplite, good against all melee units) and companions (cheap but strong cavalry)


SUPERDROIDEKA
posted 04-07-06 06:55 PM EDT (US)     7 / 123  
Droideka, you have good ideas, you do know those are almost the exact same civs for the remake that were in the original?

Anyway, here are some Eggy ideas.

Khopesh Swordsman (Replaces Swordsman- Heavy infantry- Infantry Counter)

Camelry (Replaces Cataphract- Light Cavalry- Added villager counter)

Fustbalus (Replaces Slinger- Heavy Archer- Added building bonus)

Phaoronic Sentry (Medium Range Infantry (Like throwing axemen in AOM)- Cavalry counter)

And with the Egyptians come the African and middle-eastern mercenaries.

Assyrian Pikeman
Assyrian Iron Rider
Nubian Raider
Nubian Chariot Archer
Babylonian Marksman
Afrikaan Crane Shield Bearer
Afrikaan Spear Thrower


Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-08-06 02:44 AM EDT (US)     8 / 123  
AOE3 ends at about 1850. The reason I think this ancient idea is also likely is because making a game about the world wars will introduce totally different strategies that just don't seem to fit with the RTS genre - stealth, guerilla warfare, individualism - not like the other games where it's a case of setting up a big army against another big army, which usually happened during those timelines. I think it'd really only work the way that Rise and Fall would, but I guess some real creative thinking can work around this.

Here are the Egyptian ideas I came up with yesterday:

Egypt:
Khopeshman: (Replaces Swordsman – Light Infantry – infantry and cavalry counter)
Camelry: (Replaces Raider – Light Cavalry – cavalry and archer counter)
Pharaoic Mrkbt: (Replaces Cataphract - Heavy Cavalry – building and villager counter)
Temple Guard: (Guardian Unit – Heavy Infantry – non-Egyptian counter)

I like your ideas, Yamato. Which unit would be the Guardian for yours? Perhaps the Temple Guard should be ranged.

droideka, it's really weird going from Stone age to Bronze age and having nothing in between. I was thinking Dark Age > Archaic Age > Classical Age > Iron Age. Not to mention that Romans, Celts (especially!), Carthage, Macedonians and Hellenes all used chariots at one point in another.

I'm not dissing your ideas, I just feel like you hadn't done any research.

[This message has been edited by Dieneces (edited 04-08-2006 @ 02:44 AM).]

posted 04-08-06 04:38 AM EDT (US)     9 / 123  

Quote:

droideka, it's really weird going from Stone age to Bronze age and having nothing in between. I was thinking Dark Age > Archaic Age > Classical Age > Iron Age. Not to mention that Romans, Celts (especially!), Carthage, Macedonians and Hellenes all used chariots at one point in another.

Then let's change it to ??? Age > Bronze > Iron > Imperial
I wouldn't use the term Dark age because it refers more to the period after the fall of the Roman empire. Using Archaic and Classical age seems a bit to abstract.

In my system:
??? (Tool or archaic or settlement) refers to the beginning of civilization

Bronze: period around 2000-800 BC

Iron: 800-300 BC

Imperial: 300-0 BC

About chariots, I don't think Romans, Greeks etc ever really used them in battle.
I would go back to the roots and not giving every civ the same basic units. Cataphracts shouldn't be a basic unit because they were only used by some civs in the Middle East (Palmyra, Parthians, ...)
It might be better to have light and heavy cavalry as basic cavalry units and giving Persia cataphracts instead of the normal heavy cavalry.


SUPERDROIDEKA
posted 04-08-06 04:49 AM EDT (US)     10 / 123  
Maybe, but only the Greeks used Gastraphetes, Romans only used Liburnas and Hepteres etc. It just adds a bit more variety than just calling units "Heavy Cavalry" and "Siege Weapon", which is what the actual units type is, not what it's name should be. If you can think of a better name, go for it. There are limits though, since I could refer to the mounted javelineer as the Greek Hyppikontistes, but I'm not sure of the archery equivilent. It might seem wierd.

I chose the names of the ages because they apply to the civilizations I chose, which were at their peak after 1000 BC. So the first two ages you suggested are out of the question. Iron can be replaced with Hellenistic age, which is more accurate if including Rome, Celts, Qin and Carthage. And if the players affiliate the Dark Age with the fall of the Romans, then it's their problem.

Rich Greek light cavalry would sometimes use chariots, but yes, it's more famous for being an Olympic sport. I'm not sure about the Romans, but I think it's the same. I do think that not all units should be available to every civ, you're right there.

posted 04-08-06 05:11 AM EDT (US)     11 / 123  
It's a good idea to give heavy cavalry (and other basic units) different names for each civ. Do you play Rome: Total War? There Macedonians have companion cavalry and Carthaginians have Sacred Band cavalry, they are similar units with different names but they cannot be compared with cataphracts. Companions are just horsemen wearing a breastplate while a cataphract is completely armoured, both horse and rider.
In AOE3, the basic heavy cavalry (companions, ...) should be armoured riders on unarmoured horses and cataphracts (unique) should be ultra-heavy cavalry.

SUPERDROIDEKA
posted 04-08-06 05:36 AM EDT (US)     12 / 123  
I'm happy with renaming the cataphracts "companions". It'd make the Parthian mercenary more unique, also. Also, I'd rather not call the Carthage cavalry "Sacred Band cavalry", since the Sacred Band is their unique pikeman.

I didn't get into Rome: Total War. I own it, just don't enjoy it much. There are a lot of inaccuracies that really bug me too... like the Macedonians having a very blatant Spartan red lambda on their flag.

posted 04-08-06 09:24 AM EDT (US)     13 / 123  
RTW is way different than an Age of Empires game. We have unique units and universal units showing how everyone possesed certain types of warrios and how they differed from one another.

Egypt

Khopesh Swordsman (Replaces Swordsman- Heavy infantry- Infantry Counter)
Camelry (Replaces Cataphract- Light Cavalry- Added villager counter)
Fustbalus (Replaces Slinger- Heavy Archer- Added building bonus)
Temple Spearman (Guardian Unit- Medium Infantry- Cavalry counter)

I think that would be a better unit than Pharonic Defender.

Egypt
- Cavalry 20% cheaper
- Infantry train 50% faster
- Gets Khopesh Swordsman every age advancement
Bonus: Town Center heals ally units


Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-08-06 07:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 123  
This is what I had:

Egypt:
-Chariot archers +30% speed
-Priests heal +100% faster, +20% speed
-Most buildings available from second age onwards
Bonus: Town Centre heals allied units and buildings around it

Interesting that we used the same bonus. I like the idea of the spawning Khopesh men, as well. I think the cavalry cost bonus is better and more innovative than the chariot archer speed boost, personally. As for the priests - they're always there in an age game, no need to state what's obvious. Except like in AOM and AOE3, I still don't think they should be able to convert.

[This message has been edited by Dieneces (edited 04-08-2006 @ 07:40 PM).]

posted 04-08-06 09:11 PM EDT (US)     15 / 123  
I like your idea for the chariot archers. That seems more historically accurate than getting Khopesh every age advancement.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-08-06 10:29 PM EDT (US)     16 / 123  
Thanks. How about this?

- Cavalry 20% cheaper
- Priests train 100% faster
- Chariot Archers +30% speed
Bonus: Town Center heals allied units.

posted 04-08-06 10:37 PM EDT (US)     17 / 123  
Sounds Good.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-08-06 10:53 PM EDT (US)     18 / 123  
Alright, added Egypt as a civilization.

If you could come up with some maps where your suggested mercenaries could appear, Yamato, that'd be real good.

posted 04-09-06 01:50 PM EDT (US)     19 / 123  
so do you thank aoe4 will be good looking like aoe3?
with tons of units and more civs.?


[This message has been edited by johnnyboy210 (edited 04-09-2006 @ 02:00 PM).]

posted 04-09-06 03:03 PM EDT (US)     20 / 123  
Unless any new technological advances are made, I'm guessing the game is going to look somewhat similar to AoE3.

Hopefully the civilizations are going to be the same, but with several new ones(And throw out a couple of civs. that gamers didn't like).

The units also hopefully will be the same(perhaps some new ones), but there will be new units for the new civs.

Overall I hope the game doesn't change much from the original except for more advanced gameplay and new civs./ units.

posted 04-14-06 09:51 AM EDT (US)     21 / 123  
Sorry about the wait., and here are some map ideas.

Arabia- Mountainous area with good hunting and plentiful gold mines, but little wood.

Kushite Kingdoms- Players have to destroy Kushite Forces scattered across the map in addition to beating the enemy player.

Savanah- Featuring exotic animals like lions and water buffalo, the Savanah has abundant resources.

Nile- Players are seperated by one large river crossing the map.

Mercenary Appearances-

Arabia: Assyrian Pikeman, Assyrian Iron Rider, Babylonian Marksman

Kushite Kingdoms: Nubian Raider, Nubian Chariot Archer

Savanah- Afrikaan Crane Shield Bearer, Afrikaan Spear Thrower

Nile- Nubian Raider, Assyrian Pikeman, Hittite Charioteer, Babylonian Raider


Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 04-15-06 08:44 AM EDT (US)     22 / 123  
Thanks! I'll add them tomorrow.

Quote:

Kushite Kingdoms- Players have to destroy Kushite Forces scattered across the map in addition to beating the enemy player.

Great map idea... may be potentially unpopular with a lot of players, but it still sounds like fun.

posted 04-15-06 08:13 PM EDT (US)     23 / 123  
well if you bought the collectors edition of age of empires 3, in the art book at the back it has 1 to 5 and with pictures on them... 1 is the greek and roman times, 2 is medieval times, 3 is well 1600's (i think) then the interesting part it has VI and a picture of an armey men on top of it, and V a space guy? :O
posted 04-15-06 10:21 PM EDT (US)     24 / 123  
I saw that, but it still hasn't been confirmed.

By the way, I'd never buy an AOE game set in the future, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

posted 04-18-06 11:41 PM EDT (US)     25 / 123  
I'm not sure I would either. Futuristic RTS games usually aren't as good. There are exceptions of course, though.
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