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Topic Subject: Back to The Old World
posted 06-29-08 05:28 PM EDT (US)   
Back to The Old World is an expansion pack idea for AoE3. It would add certain European civs that weren't previously in the game. It also would add some new units to the older factions.

Before I start I need to show you three new common units that are necessary for some of the civilizations I will post. Some of these will appear in my other mod ideas.
Archer: Archaic light ranged infantry that uses a bow, they are like a ranged Roderlo. Archers are good against infantry, but weak against cavalry. Image: http://images.nypl.org/?id=1235343&t=w

Arquebusier/Hand Cannoneer: Archaic heavy ranged infantry that use an arquebus. Arquebusiers are good against heavy infantry, but weak against artillery. Image: http://www.arquebusiers.be/uniformes/arquebusier-16esiecle.jpg

Swordsmen: Archaic medium, yet speedy infantry, they are armed with swords and shields. Swordsmen are good against Artillery, but they are bad against ranged infantry and cavalry. Image:
http://images.nypl.org/?id=477193&t=w

Name: Prussia
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Flag_of_Preussen_1701-1918.jpg
Leader: Frederick the Great
Home City/Capital: Königsberg

Units: Pikemen, Lange Kerl*, Schutzen*, Skirmisher, Landwehr*, Dragoon, Hussar, Uhlan*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenadier, Petard

Unique Units: Lange Kerl: Heavy ranged infantry that uses rifles, and they can also use swords.
Schutzen: Light infantry armed with muskets.
Landwehr: Heavy rifle armed infantry, they can build military buildings.
Uhlan: Light cavalry armed with lances, they are good against infantry.

Royal Guard Units: Skirmisher, Hussar, and Uhlan


Name: Ukraine/Zaporozhia
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Ukra ine.svg/396px-Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Ukraine.svg.png
Leader: Bohdan Khmelnytsky
Capital/Home City: Sich

Units: Grey Beards*, Archer, Natiaga*, Khavaktenic*, Plastun*, Pikemen, Hussar, Cavalry Archer, Ptorogha*, Culverin, Falconet, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Petard, Grenadier

Unique Units: Grey Beards: Cossak veterans armed with flintlock muskets and swords.
Natiaga: Light infantry armed with a sword and pistol. They are good raiding units.
Khavaktenic: Light infantry armed with two swords. They also are good at raiding.
Plastun: Light infantry that use rifles. They are a type of sniper that replaces the Skirmisher.
Ptorogha: Light cavalry armed with muskets that replaces the Dragoon.

Royal Guard Units: Hussar and Grey Beards


Name: Switzerland
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Switzerland.svg/300px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png
Leader: ???
Capital/Home City: Berne

Units: Arquebusier, Crossbowmen, Halberdier, Reislaufer*, Gassenhauer*, Zweihander*, Sabel Kavallerie*, Montiert Hellbarde*, Flaconet, Culverin, Mortar, Petard

Unique Units: Reislaufer: Elite mercenary pikemen. They are probably the best in the game.
Gassenhauer: Light infantry armed with a short sword.They are really good against pikemen.
Zweihander: An even heavier version of the German Dopplersnolder.
Sabel Kavallerie: Medium cavalry armed with a type of Swiss scimitar and a shield.
Montier Infarterie: Mounted halberdiers. They are really heavy, and can massacre infantry.


Royal Guard Units: Reislaufer and Halberdier


Name: Austria
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Austria_Bundesadler.svg/561px-Austria_Bundesadler.svg.png
Leader: Marie Louise
Home City/Capital: Vienna

Units: Pikemen, Gefreiter*, Grenzer*, Crossbowmen, Hussar, Dragoon, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenadier, Petard

Unique Units: Gefreiter: Light infantry armed with muskets. They replace musketeers.
Grenzer: Light skirmisher like infantry that counters light infantry and cavalry.

Royal Guard Units: Dragoon and Grenzer


Name: Malta
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Flag_of_the_Sovereign_Milit ary_Order_of_Malta.svg/450px-Flag_of_the_Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta.svg.png
Leader: Jean Parisot de la Valette
Home City/ Capital: Valletta

Units: Crossbowmen, Arquebusier, Swordsmen, Pikemen, Servientos*, Kavallier*, Custrel*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Petard, Hoop Thrower*

Unique Units: Servientos: Light infantry armed with voulges or halberds.
Kavallier: Heavy cavalry armed with a lance and sheild. The order's knights.
Custrel: Light cavalry armed with lances and swords. They are basically armed squires.
Hoop Throwers: Heavy infantry that throws burning hoops. They replace Grenadiers.

Royal Guard Units: Swordsmen and Kavallier


Name: Bohemia
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Small_coat_of_arms_of_the_C zech_Republic.svg/492px-Small_coat_of_arms_of_the_Czech_Republic.svg.png
Leader: Jan ˇi˛ka
Home City/Capital: Praque

Units: Arquebusier, Crossbowmen, Mlatit Muzi*, Swordsmen, Kopinici*, Halberdier, Pist'ala*, Rytir*, War Wagon*, Culverin, Falconet, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Petard

Unique Units: Mlatit Muzi: Heavy infantry armed with a double handed flail.
Kopinici: Heavy infantry armed with a pike. They also use a large pavise sheild.
Pist'ala: Light cavalry that uses pistols. They are a lot like Dragoons.
Rytir: Medium cavalry that have a sword and sheild. They are like a powerful Hussar.
War Wagon: A garrison able wagon that has cannons on each side. They are a type of speedy artillery.

Royal Guard Units: Crossbowmen and War Wagon


Name: Belgium
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Flag_of_Belgium.svg/450px-Flag_of_Belgium.svg.png
Leader: Leopold I
Capital/Home City: Brussels

Units: Pikemen, Skirmisher, Lancier*, Chasseur*, Hussar, Dragoon, Chevaux-leger*, Falconet, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenadier, Petard

Unique Units: Lancier: Light infantry armed with a pike or lance, they would be like pikemen, but with a bonus against infantry.
Chasseur: Light speedy infantry, liike a mix between the Musketeer and the Skirmisher
Chevaux-leger: Light cavalry armed with either a lance or a sword, they would be used like heavy cavalry.

Royal Guard Units: Skirmisher and Lancier


Name: Burgundy
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Blason_fr_Bourgogne.svg/545px-Blason_fr_Bourgogne.svg.png
Leader: Charles the Bold
Capital/Home City: Dijon

Units: Arquebusier, Crossbowmen, Pikemen, Badelaar*, Halverdier, Goedenbags*, Ecuyer*, Coustilers*, Argoulets*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Petard, Grenadier

Unique Units: Goedenbag: Heavy infantry armed with the Goedenbag, a type of club with a spear tip.
Badelaar: Medium infantry armed with a falchion/scimitar and a shield.
Ecuyer: Heavy cavalry armed with a large lance and a shield. They cause heavy trample damage.
Coustillers: Medium cavalry armed with a lance. They can also throw their lances for a ranged attack.
Argoulets: Light cavalry that uses either bows or carbines.

Royal Guard Units: Arquebusier and Ecuyer


Name: Ireland
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Flag_of_Leinster.svg/800px-Flag_of_Leinster.svg.png
Leader: Hugh The Great O'Neill
Capital/Home City: Dublin

Units: Feirmeoir*, Musketeer, Crossbowmen, Pikemen, Galloglass*, Tories*, Kerns*, Rapparee*, Hussar, Dragoon, Culverin, Falconet, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenadier, Petard

Unique Units: Feirmeoir: The Irish settler. They are better at gathering resources.
Galloglass: Irish rebels armed with huge double handed axes.
Tories: Light rebel infantry armed with muskets and swords.
Kerns: Light rebel infantry armed with rifles. They replace the Skirmisher.
Rapparee: Light infantry armed with a six foot long spear. They are better against infantry then cavalry.

Royal Guard Units: Musketeer and Hussar


Name: Scotland
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/800px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png
Leader: Charles Edward Stuart
Home City/Capital: Edinburgh

Units: Crossbowmen, Pikemen, Musketeer, Jacobite*, Halberdier, Redshanks*, Clansmen*, Hussar, Mosstrooper*, Border Reiver*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenader, Petard

Unique Units: Jacobite: Light rebel infantry armed with a musket, buckler, and claymore. They replace Skirmishers.
Redshanks: Light infantry armed with a longbow. They are like a lighter and faster British Longbowmen.
Clansmen: Medium infantry armed with a clymore and a sheild. They are like a fast Swordsmen.
Mosstrooper: Light cavalry armed with pistols and a sword. They are like a mounted Skirmisher.
Border Reiver: Light patrol cavalry that is armed with a short lance or spear.

Royal Guard Units: Hussar and Halberdier


Name: Courland
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Kurlandia.JPG
Ruler: Gotthard Kettler
Capital/Home City: Mitau or Windau

Units: Piechota*, Crossbowmen, Pikemen, Wolontaiuze*, Hussar Dragoon, Knechten*, Mortar, Culverin, Falconet, Horse Artillery, Petard

Unique Units: Piechota: Heavy Infantry covered in mail, and armed with arquebuses.
Wolontaiuze: Infantry wearing mail, and armed with swords.
Knechten: Light Cavalry wearing mail and leather armor, and armed with lances. These cavalry are relics from the Teutonic Knights.

Royal Guard Units: Pikemen and Knechtens.


Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Herb_Polski.svg/509px-Herb_Polski.svg.png
Ruler: Jan Sobieski III
Capital/Home City: Warsaw

Units: Crossbowmen, Wojsko*, Halberdier, Pikinierzy*, Hussar, Cavalry Archer, Pancerny*, Tabor*, Kopijinicy*, Culverin, Falconet, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Petard, Grenadier

Unique Units: Wojsko: A very fast Musketeer like unit.
Pikinierzy: A heavy Pikemen unit that uses large sheilds.
Pancerny: A heavy cavalry unit, armed with a musket, and wearing chain mail.
Tabor: A large wagon that can move, train villagers, and defend itself if needed.
Kopijinicy: The last of the heavy lancers, relics of the past.

Royal Guard Units: Kopijinicy and Hussar


Name: Denmark
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/370px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png
Ruler: Christian III
Capital/Home City: Copenhagen

Unit: Crossbowmen, Musketeer, Halberdier, Svaerdstavs*, Skirmisher, Ski Trooper*, Dragoon, Andelfanner*, Falconet, Culverin, Horse Artillery, Mortar, Petard, Grenadier.

Unique Units: Svaerdstavs: Danish for Sword Staff, they are in a way heavy infantry armed with swords on sticks.
Andelfanner: Light cavalrymen armed with sabers, they are like a heavy hussar.
Ski Trooper: Light Infantry on skis that can move very quickly over snowy landscapes, they are armed with either muskets or grenades.

Royal Guard Units: Andelfanner and Halberdier


Name: Sweden
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Sweden.svg/800px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Ruler: Gustavus Adolphus
Capital/Home City: Stockholm

Units: Pikemen, Halberdier, Crossbowmen, Karoliner*, Dragoon, Hackapel*, Drabant*, Falconet, Leathern Gun*, Mortar, Grenadier, Petard, and Horse Guns

Unique Units: Karoliner: The basic Swedish infantry. Light infantry armed with muskets and berdiche axes, a lot like the Russian Strelets.
Hackapel: Light cavalry from Finland, armed with pistols and swords.
Drabant: The guards of the Swedish king. They are light cavalrymen armed with sabers, and are good against cannons.
Leathern Guns: Small cannons that take the place of culverins for the Swedes.

Royal Guard Units: Halberdiers and Dragoons


Name: Bavaria
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flag_of_Bavaria_(lozengy).svg/800px-Flag_of_Bavaria_(lozengy).svg.png
Leader: Maximilian I
Capital/Home City: Munich

Units: Arquebusier, Crossbowmen, Musketeer, Pikemen, Halberdier, Katzbalgers*, Hussar, Ferentanio*, Cranequineer*, Bosniak*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Grenadier, Petard

Unique Units: Katzbalgers: Light infantry armed with a sword and sheild.
Ferentanio: Medium cavalry armed with an arquebus. They are like a heavy Dragoon.
Cranequineer: Light cavalry armed with a crossbow. They are like a light Dragoon.
Bosniak: Light cavalry armed with a lance, they are good against infantry.

Royal Guard Units: Musketeer and Hussar


Name: Saxony
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Flag_of_Saxony.svg/500px-Flag_of_Saxony.svg.png
Leader: John George I
Capital/Home City: Leipzig

Units: Crossbowmen, Arquebusier, Musketeer, Pikemen, Burgmann*, Hussar, Barbouille*, Falconet, Culverin, Mortar, Horse Artillery, Petard, Granater*

Unique Units: Burgmann: Heavy infantry armed with a partisan and a sheild.
Barbouille: Heavy cavalry armed with pistols. They are like a really heavy Dragoon.
Granater: Really heavy Grenadiers. They have armor and burgonet helmets.

Royal Guard Units: Musketeer and Hussar


New units for old nations...
England: Yeoman of the Guard: Light infantry armed with a partisan.

France: Mousquetaires: Light infantry armed with a musket and a rapier.
National Guard: Light militia infantry armed with muskets.

Spain: Conquistador: Heavy cavalry armed with an arquebus and a sword.

Portugal: Aventuros: Heavy pike armed infantry. They replace Pikemen.

Germany: Jeager: Light rifle armed infantry. They replace Skirmishers.
Landsknechts: Light flamboyant infantry armed with a pike. They replace Pikemen.
Black Reiter: Heavy cavalry armed with pistols.
Hussar
Dragoon
(Loses Uhlan and War Wagon)
(Frederick The Great replaced with Leopold I)

Dutch: Schutterij: Light infantry armed with crossbows and swords. They replace Crossbowmen.
Geuzen: Light and fast sword armed infantry.

Russia: Konnitsa: Heavy cavalry armed with a bow and a glaive.
Hussar (Upgrades to Registered Cossak)

Ottomans: Azab: Light infantry armed with a short pole-axe and a sheild.
Nazim-i-Cedid: Light infantry that uses rifles. They are like an Ottoman Skirmisher
Sipahis (The unit from the home city, just available at the stables.)

New Mercenaries...
Black Heap: A band of Frisian pirates armed with double handed swords.
Condotta: Italian heavy cavalry and mercenary leaders.
Almugavar: Light Aragonese infantry that throws javelins, but can also use sword and sheild.
Red Lancer: Mercenary Belgium and Dutch light cavalry that uses lances.
Black Brunswicker: German infantry that uses rifles, they are a lot like Skirmishers.
Taupins: Light French infantry armed with bows and swords.
Lanspessades: Heavy cavalry that use lances. They wear a lot of armor.
Pistoleer: Light German cavalry that uses pistols.

Other topics I plan to post...
The Near East: Oman, Yemen, Ak Qoyunlu, Crimea, Circassia, and Georgia

The Kings of Africa: Swahili, Kanem-Bornu, Liberia, Fulani, Benin, Cameroon, Mali, Songhai, Sudanese, Zulu, Kongo, Ethiopia, Egypt, Khoikhoi, Mutapa/Zimbabwe, Ashanti, and Morocco.

The Rise of Revolution: Paraguay, Argentina, Bolivia, Columbia, Mexico, Uruguay, Chile, Brazil, Peru, Canada, USA, and CSA

The Unknown Chiefs: Inca, Mapuche, Tupi, Apache, Maya, Nootka, and Inuit

The Balkan Wars: Byzantium, Greece, Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, Wallachia, Moldavia, and Tranzylvania

The Forgotten Dynasties: Persia, Korea, Mongolia, Sikhs, Rajputs, Philippines, and Afghanis.

The Italian States: Tuscany, Ragusa, Naples, Venice, Papacy, Genoa, and Savoy

Many thanks to the modders and other members of this forum, and many other forums for their ideas and inspirations.

Thanks for reading!

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".

[This message has been edited by Jaguar6 (edited 07-04-2008 @ 10:14 PM).]

Replies:
posted 06-30-08 01:15 AM EDT (US)     1 / 15  
Alot of these units are just copies from existing mods, or from games designed in the past by old Future ES Game-ers, which I find very disappointing.
posted 06-30-08 09:44 AM EDT (US)     2 / 15  
Actually I quite liked it, apart from a couple of small problems (see below) I would actually like to play as some of those civs, thanks for making Canada a civ in your future post!

1. Fredrick the great is the leader for the germans in Aoe3, and when they say germans they basically mean Prussia/Republic of the Rhine.

2. How can thw War Wagon be a Guard Unit for Bohemia if the War Wagon is a unique unit for Germany?

Overall, I like it!

"This is the flag of a new country, flying from the Mississippi to the Pacific. The thirteen stripes of red and white still represent the thirteen colonies, but they run in a new direction, just as we must chart a new direction for ourselves. [...] God bless you, and God bless the Allied States of America!" -President Tomarchio, first president of the ASA. This Quote is from the TV series Jericho, one of the best shows on earth.
posted 06-30-08 11:36 AM EDT (US)     3 / 15  
So what do you want me to do? Make up a bunch of fantasy units. Why does it matter if they have historical units and I have the same historical units, I can't change history.

Canada was just to big to leave out. You will be glad to know that it is unique, and not a copy of the British and the French.

I forgot to tell you that Frederick and the War Wagons are dropped and, as you noticed, given to other civs. Germany in this version would be more like the Holy Roman Empire then the Confederation of The Rhine. I'll edit the first post.

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
posted 06-30-08 02:15 PM EDT (US)     4 / 15  
@originality: That's a problem with any mod based on a certain time period, and certain civs. Granted I know he took some material from Napoleonic Era and threw it out there, and there have been mods in the past covering the Italian states and even African civs.

My take on things, there's no copyright law that will defend one person's mod vs. another's. Jaguar has borrowed a lot, and if he were to just mod this up as-is and submit it, people would have every right to complain and try to get him to take it down, but in the end, what can they realistically do?

I know the modders of NE have put in a ton of time, effort, and skill to make an exciting and comprehensive mod. They deserve every credit and it's not right to steal their work and their ideas. Jaguar has to give credit and at least try to make his mod play out differently, or have a different regional focus, from NE.

Many skilled modders won't bother helping him with it if it turns out to be a ripoff of something they've already submitted for their existing team leader. So it has to be substantially different and new to attract collaborators and players. I believe if Jaguar sincerely wants his mod to be taken seriously, he's gotta come up with a way to make it unique, reduce overlap with NE or K&B or other existing mods, and play by the same rules as everyone else.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
posted 06-30-08 04:02 PM EDT (US)     5 / 15  
Who said I was making a mod? Anyways, I've been wondering what stuff I have used from NE, I couldn't really find anything.
I just want everyone to know that all of these units come from historical research, I am not trying to steal mods hear, I'm trying to show good historical civs that should be in AOE3.

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".

[This message has been edited by Jaguar6 (edited 06-30-2008 @ 04:09 PM).]

posted 06-30-08 08:48 PM EDT (US)     6 / 15  
I noticed something missing from these civilizations: Civilization Bonuses.
posted 06-30-08 11:24 PM EDT (US)     7 / 15  
They are also missing home city cards, unique buildings (only one civ has had one), and any thing else unique about the civ(besides unique units of coarse).
That is another reason why I haven't made a mod

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
posted 07-01-08 01:02 AM EDT (US)     8 / 15  
Sckutterij
Schutterij.

@ Saffah: This is a discussion in the Future ES Games forum. If he would be making a mod, I think he would have posted this in Modding Discussions.

And @ originality: Even if he did make a mod, he couldn't be stealing units from a mod like NE. What, do you think NE made the units up themselves, and have a copyright on it or sth? No you don't, I certainly hope at least. NE uses them because they were real military units, used in the Napoleonic era, but that doesn't give them the monopoly on Napoleonic-themed mods, or just medieval-to-napoleonic mods, and that they have all the rights to take down another mod (this is not a mod) because they can't stand someone else making a mod that overlaps their time frame.

- Linus

ḼĮЙЦḈԊДĐ₦ḜẔˇДЯ
Modding for: Knights and Barbarians


EMPIRES RISE AND FALL BUT HEROES LIVE FOREVER
posted 07-01-08 11:00 AM EDT (US)     9 / 15  
Wow, someone who knows what that is. I am impressed by your knowledge of history

That is exacly what I was thinking, I just couldn't figure out how to say it. It isn't stealing when the unit is historically correct. Just wait till when I post the Latin American civ ideas

Thanks for your defense Linus.

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
posted 07-01-08 01:01 PM EDT (US)     10 / 15  
I have nothing against you, it's just that some of these factions' units popped up around the same time as a few of NE's units with the same names were announced.

I can understand what you're doing though, it's a great concept.

And I would like to see these Latin American civs.
posted 07-01-08 01:37 PM EDT (US)     11 / 15  
The problem with the Latin Amerian civs is that they are really similar to the WOTTA civs. WOTTA has so many good ideas, I just have to use them

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
posted 07-11-08 12:07 PM EDT (US)     12 / 15  
Jaguar,your a genius!

"I do not know with which weapons the Third World War will be fought with,but I know that the Fourth will be fought with sticks and stones." -Albert Einstein
posted 07-11-08 12:37 PM EDT (US)     13 / 15  
Oh, thanks, I haven't gotten that before

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
posted 07-17-08 04:46 PM EDT (US)     14 / 15  
For france and england they should have unique units or a research like..... For the french The French Foriegn Legoin. Dramitically increases ranged units attack and speed.

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=90091&rendTypeId=4
(its more modern than what i was looking for)

For England Royal Commandos:Makes there troops have incredibles attack,hitpoints,speed and gives them stealth ability.

http://www.candlemoth.net/Images/5rac1_small.jpg
(its more modern)
posted 07-17-08 09:31 PM EDT (US)     15 / 15  
Those are some good ideas, but like I said before I'm not good at techs.

If you are making a mod and need some ideas, or if you just like history check out my civ ideas in the "Future ES Games Thread".
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