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Topic Subject: The new USA
posted 08-07-08 10:59 AM EDT (US)   
This game is nowhere near finished. I need all the help I can get.

EDITS: Full unit lists included. Asian Mercenaries included.

Thanks to Orowac for the Canadian map idea, the area of the Canadian maps, some flags and the Dene cavalry; Lord_H_Lightra for the Cheyenne idea, the 'group of states' maps idea and some Ironclad ideas; As_Saffah for the Creek idea; and to Packers1004 for the Russian UUs.

The new USA is a game set between the very beginning of the USA revolution and the end of the American Civil War. Some of the civs shouldn't be in every era, but for the sake of making this a good game, they are.

Ages
Colonial Age
Revolutionary Age
Expansive Age
Civil War

Resources
Resources in this game take five different forms, and all must be gathered to build a successful nation. Most resources can be deposited at drop sites, but Cree Dog Sleds do not need drop sites.
1. Food (Animals, Domestic Animals, Farms, Fish)
2. Wood (Trees)
3. Iron (Ore Deposits)
4. Coin (Marketplaces, Mines)
5. Population (Houses, Town Centres)

Maps
CANADA
See This map for the areas of the Canadian provinces.
1. Ontario
2. Quebec
3. New Brunswick
4. Nova Scotia

UNITED STATES
5. New England (Between New York, Maine, Pennsylvania and Maryland)
6. Virginia (Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee)
7. Bayou (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia Florida)
8. Texas (Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma)
9. Painted Desert (Arizona, Utah)
10. New Mexico (New Mexico, Colorado)
11. California (California, Nevada)
12. Pacific Northwest (Washington, Oregon)
13. Montana (Montana, Idaho, Wyoming)
14. Dakota (North Dakota, South Dakota)
15. Great Lakes (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana)
16. Great Plains (Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas)
17. Alaska (Alaska)

CUBA
18. Cuba (Cuba)

MEXICO
19. Chihuahua (Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo León, Tamaulipas)

SPAIN
20. Balearics (Balearic Islands)

Civilizations
Each civilization group has its own units, techs and buildings, but the Imperials share some with the Colonials and the Northeners share some with the Southeners.
IMMIGRANT GROUPS
Imperial - The European Empires
Economic Unit: Settler
Trade Unit: Stagecoach

British Empire (Naval Power)
UUs: Redcoat - Heavy, medium-ranged rifleman. Unlike others of his class, he is an efficient attacker (see Unit Lists below)
Man-o-war - Medium warship with a strong attack
Highlander - Mercenary infantry with a musket

French Empire (Balanced Power)
UUs: Cuirassier - Very heavy melee cavalry
Gendarme - Rifleman who improves when near a friendly TC
Mousquetaire de la Garde - Incredibly strong musketeer

Colonial - The United States factions
Economic Unit: Colonist
Trade Unit: Trade Wagon

United States (Artillery Power)
UUs: Colonial Militia - Very cheap but somewhat inefficient light infantry
Buffalo Soldier - Stealthy all-rounder infantry with low HP
Jaeger - Powerful long-ranged heavy infantry. Very Expensive

Confederate States (Infantry Power)
UUs: Slave - Cheap, weak colonist. Cannot double as infantry
Cherokee Rifleman - Quick native infantry with a good attack
Cavalryman - High HP ranged cavalry. Very expensive but worth it

NATIVE GROUPS
Northern - Northern Native Americans
Economic Unit: Gatherer
Trade Unit: Trade Travois

Iroquois Confederacy (Economic Power)
UUs: Tomahawk - Simple ranged heavy infantry. Cheap and good vs. Cavalry
Prowler - Long ranged stealthy rifleman. Fairly expensive but useful
Mantlet - Simple siege weapon good against infantry. Huge ammount of HP

Cree Tribe (Trade/Diplopmatic Power)
UUs: Coureur des Bois - Very expensive but efficient gatherer. Can double as infantry
Tracker - Ex-hunter with stealth. Excellent against infantry
Dog Sled - Cheap, fast gatherer. Inefficient but can transport other units

Southern - Southern Native Americans
Economic Unit: Villager
Trade Unit: Trade Rider

Cheyenne Nation (Cavalry Power)
UUs: Medicine Lance - Powerful light cavalry with a huge range, but low HP
Wolf Warrior - Bowstring society archer. Weak, but cheap and has a massive range
Dog Soldier - Very powerful heavy cavalry with no range but a huge attack

Navajo Nation (Auxiliary Power)
UUs: Rustler - Average all-round ranged light infantry. Can teleport enemy livestock to an allied TC
Spearman - Very cheap but weak melee heavy infantry. Good against cavalry en masse
Dene cavalry - Mercenary cavalry with a small range but a huge attack. Very fast

Group Bonuses
Imperial
1. Has a Home City which can send shipments
2. Generally has stronger, more expensive units
3. Settlers (Villagers) are limited in number, but efficient

Colonial
1. Units train almost instantly
2. Colonists (Villagers) double as infantry, but are less efficient
3. Can train up to 5 generals which greatly improve nearby units

Northern
1. Can build a Council which grants a choice of bonuses
2. Gatherers (Villagers) are quite cheap and moderately efficient
3. Hunting generates gold as well as food

Southern
1. Villagers are very cheap and are not limited in number, as well as being efficient.
2. Buildings are weaker, but build quickly and are very cheap
3. Units are generally much cheaper but weaker than those of other groups

Full unit lists
In this game, infantry become completely new units each age, while cavalry are simply upgraded (Elite, Champion). Both of the Immigrant groups share one type of infantry and have two of their own, while Natives share most military units.
Immigrant military
Infantry
SNIPER CLASS - This class is long ranged but has low HP. Good vs. infantry
Age 2 - Hunter
Age 3 - Skirmisher
Age 4 - Crack shot (Or US Jaeger)

IMPERIAL MUSKETEER CLASS - This class is Imperial-only. Good vs. cavalry
Age 2 - Musketeer
Age 3 - Infantryman
Age 4 - British Highlander / French Mousquetaire de la Garde

IMPERIAL TOWN GUARD CLASS - This class is Imperial-only. Good against most units while defending
Age 2 - Patrol
Age 3 - Guardsman
Age 4 - British Redcoat / French Gendarme

COLONIAL CRIMINAL CLASS - This class is Colonial-only. Expensive but very good all-round
Age 2 - Outlaw
Age 3 - Renegado
Age 4 - Bandit

COLONIAL MILITIA CLASS - This class is Colonial-only. Good against cavalry and quite cheap
Age 2 - Minuteman
Age 3 - Confederate Cherokee Rifleman / Union Colonial Militia
Age 4 - Champion Cherokee Rifleman / Union Buffalo Soldier

Cavalry
DRAGOONS - Good against cavalry, available to all Immigrants from age 3. Confederate Cavalrymen replace their Dragoons.

HUSSARS - Powerful but low HP cavalry. Doesn't have a preferred target. French Cuirassiers replace their Hussars.

Navy
Small ships are cheap and fast, large ships are powerful and have high HP. The frigate is all four, but not as good as specialised ships.

Frigate / British Man-o-War - Medium warship with moderate stats all-round.

IMPERIAL SHIPS
Barque - Imperial small ship good for harassing larger ships
Monitor - Imperial large ship with a huge attack, good against buildings

COLONIAL SHIPS
Schooner - Colonial small ship. Very cheap and light but small attack.
Ironclad - Colonial large ship. Huge amount of HP and moderate attack, but costly and quite slow

Native military
Infantry
STEALTH CLASS - Varied cost but generally expensive units. Their only common feature is the stealth ability. Available from age 3
Iroquois - Prowler (Very long range)
Cree - Tracker (Powerful attack)
Cheyenne - Wolf Warrior (Much cheaper)
Navajo - Rustler (Extra ability)

MELEE CLASS - No range but very powerful attack, especially against cavalry.
Age 2 - Stickfighter
Age 3 - War Clubman
Age 4 - Battle Maceman

BONUS CLASS - From the Chief's residence, the Navajo can train the Spearman and the Iroquois can train the Mantlet. The Chief's residence also functions as usual for these two civs.

RANGED CLASS - Ranged and good vs. infantry. Their attack and HP greatly improves through the ages. The Iroquois receive a Tomahawk as well whenever they train a unit in this class, though they pay more for this
Age 2 - Bowman
Age 3 - Elite Bowman
Age 4 - Rifleman

NORTHERN MERCENARY CLASS - Very powerful but expensive soldiers
Age 2 - Aleut Harpooner
Age 3 - Algonquin Warrior
Age 4 - Dutch Halberdier

Cavalry
STANDARD CLASS - Average cavalry. Several different types.
Age 2 - Musket rider (Southern) / Woodland rider (Northern)
Age 3 - Rifle rider (Cree, Cheyenne) / Hatchet rider (Navajo, Iroquois)
Age 4 - Carbine rider (Iroquois, Navajo) / Lancer (Cree, Cheyenne)

SOUTHERN MERCENARY CLASS - This class is Southern-only. Very powerful but expensive and good all-round. Available from age 3.
Cheyenne - Dog soldier
Navajo - Dene cavalry

Navy
War Canoe - Largest native warship, good against anything when built in number.
Northern Dugout - The dugout canoe is sturdier than its southern counterpart and has a slightly larger attack
Southern Birchbark - Birchbark canoes are cheap and fast, and are easy to mass. Alone, though, they are very weak

Mercenary system
When you have built a mercenary office, you will be alerted whenever a band of mercenaries are available. Then, you can go to your mercenary office and place a bid on the mercenaries. You can change or remove this bid later. Remember that every player who also has a mercenary office is also bidding on the mercenaries, so check back often to see how high you need to bid. After five minutes, the player with the highest bid gets the mercenaries. If there is a draw or no one bids, the mercenaries become unavailable. You can only bid coin.

List of mercenaries
Mercenary bands can be made of any number up to 15 members, who are all the same type.

ASIAN
1. Japanese Ronin
2. Japanese Ninja
3. Indian Mutineer
4. Indian Rajput
5. Chinese Xia Lin
6. Chinese Flamethrower
7. Indochinese Swordsman
8. Indochinese Ngaw Rider

X-PACK: New North America
Civs
Spanish Empire (Imperial - Buildings power)
UUs: Galleon - Large ship with a powerful attack (Replaces Monitor)
Havana militia - Strong Militiaman with high HP (Available from age 4, part of the Town Guard class)
Grenadier - Musketeer with an option to throw grenades, causing high damage to buildings (Available from age 4, part of the Musketeer class)

Russian Empire (Imperial - Hitpoints power)
UUs: Pikenier - A high HP melee infantryman who does bonus damage to cavalry (Extra Russian unit)
Haydamaka - Expensive Ukrainian highwayman with the ability to temporarily block a trade route (Available form age 4, part of the Town Guard class)
Strelets - Weak but cheap musketeer with a fairly good attack (Available from age 4, part of the Musketeer class)

Canada (Colonial - Defensive power)
UUs: Dominion Policeman - Light cavalry with a rifle, good for defending (Replaces Dragoon)
Québécois - Light infantry with a limited hunting ability (Available from age 3. Part of the Militia class)
Winipekw Sloop - Very light warship. Excellent for exploring but weak in combat (Replaces Schooner)

I NEED ANOTHER COLONIAL CIV. POSSIBLY MEXICO OR A CARIBBEAN COUNTRY.

Haida (Northern - General non-military power)
UUs: Woodsman - Stealthy light infantry who can travel through thick forest (Part of the Stealth class)
Cedar Canoe - High HP and strong by canoe standards (Extra unit for the Haida)
Eagle Bear - Very powerful melee heavy infantry (Replaces Battle Maceman)

Ojibwe / Algonquin / Inuit - WHICH OF THESE SHOULD BE THE OTHER NORTHERN CIV?

Seminole (Southern - General military power)
UUs: Sharktooth - Ranged light infantry with a bow. Weak but cheap (Replaces Bowman and Elite Bowman. Part of the ranged class)
Bayou Rifleman - Stealthy light infantry which can swim for a short time (Part of the stealth class)
Chief - Only three can be built. Very strong, fast and high HP (Part of the bonus class)

Creek (Southern - Speed power)
UUs: UNKNOWN

COMING SOON
Campaigns, full building and unit lists and more civ bonuses. Any suggestions much appreciated.

[This message has been edited by NotInvolved (edited 09-10-2008 @ 02:59 PM).]

Replies:
posted 08-07-08 01:36 PM EDT (US)     1 / 19  
I like this. Add on to it more, add some maps, units, buildings, campaign ideas, and it'll be pretty sweet.

Good job on this!
posted 08-07-08 04:01 PM EDT (US)     2 / 19  
I'm going to use states for maps. Obviously excluding Alaska and Hawai'i, and probably cramming New York in with Rhode Island and Conneticut, etc. Maybe about 40 maps overall.

I'll need help with that, being British and all. I know nothing of most of your states.
posted 08-08-08 06:38 PM EDT (US)     3 / 19  
Very good idea, but why don't you add the Canadian Provinces as maps too? (the provinces at that time period were Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia)

P.S. I suggest you change "Apache Cavalry" to "Dene Cavalry", Apache was a term used by the Europeans. It means Enemy in their language, apart from Dene, which is what they called themselves (the people).

"This is the flag of a new country, flying from the Mississippi to the Pacific. The thirteen stripes of red and white still represent the thirteen colonies, but they run in a new direction, just as we must chart a new direction for ourselves. [...] God bless you, and God bless the Allied States of America!" -President Tomarchio, first president of the ASA. The flag that he is talking about is in my avatar. This Quote is from the TV series Jericho, one of the best shows on earth.
posted 08-08-08 07:04 PM EDT (US)     4 / 19  
I'm going to add another civ to each group for the Xpack. Canada will be the new colonial one.

[This message has been edited by NotInvolved (edited 08-09-2008 @ 05:55 AM).]

posted 08-08-08 09:25 PM EDT (US)     5 / 19  
The Spanish and Dutch were involved in the Revolution. Let's not forget the Hessian mercenaries.

Old Bachus, Napoleon of Spam turned half decent forumer
>>Winner of Most Improved AoMH Forumer '09<<
~If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it isn't in Danish, thank King Alfred.~
>>My work<<

"Once you've stooped to Cash4Gold type stuff, you no longer are a celebrity." - Mozzy
posted 08-10-08 08:37 AM EDT (US)     6 / 19  
I can have one more empire for the xpack. I don't know which to use (Spanish, Dutch or Russian Alaska), so whatever I can get good UUs for I will use. Obviously Conquistadors were out of use by this time, so it may be difficult to find other Spanish units.
posted 08-10-08 02:04 PM EDT (US)     7 / 19  
I would like to see Dutch or Spanish, Spanish could work well with the Southern Indian nations, and can also make an appearance in the Revolutionary War. Dutch, well, I just think they're cool.

[This message has been edited by KrakenBits (edited 08-10-2008 @ 02:04 PM).]

posted 08-10-08 07:30 PM EDT (US)     8 / 19  
You have some flaws.
-It's not a Colony after it has declared its independence. The British may have seen us as rebelling colonies, but history has decided that America was an independent country. You can't say that it has colonists. Or is colonial. The Confederacy didn't exist when the US was a colony.
-The Confederacy was not historically an infantry power. (Or any real power...it was complete bull. It was a failed state after about two years.) It's cavalry was a force, and they were able to produce them quickly because many soldiers were farmeres and had experience. Even if you make them expensive, they should train quickly.
-The Lakota weren't really in the southern half of the United States...they were in the Northern Great Plains. The Southern Great Plains would have been Comanche or Cheyenne if I recall my research correctly.
-Ironclads weren't more powerful by means of attack. They carried the same weapons as a standard ship, sometimes less. (Find a picture of the USS Monitor). They were merely near indestructible until larger artillery was produced that could crack the armor. Maneuverability should probably be changed to just slow.
-Seminoles shouldn't be so much a military power as have many stealth units that are quick. One of the reasons the US Government took so long to relocate them (or commit genocide...whichever you prefer) was because they kept disappearing into the Floridian swamps and being hard to find.

Why go by state? You'd be better off with New England, East Coast, West Coast, The Southwest, Gulf of Mexico, Louisiana, Great Plains, The South, The Great Lakes, et cetera. Don't forget the Canadian provinces.

DISCLAIMER: My opinions about the game are near worthless. I'm probably one of the least accomplished players on these forums.

"You know, now that the dollar has so little value, you could put him [George W. Bush] on it."--Paula Poundstone

[This message has been edited by Lord_H_Lightra (edited 08-10-2008 @ 07:31 PM).]

posted 08-11-08 05:22 AM EDT (US)     9 / 19  
Both of the USA civs are colonial because they started as colonies. I can't think of a better name for their group, so for now 'Colonial' and 'Colonist' will have to do.

The Colonial group has a bonus which makes all of their units train almost instantly, including confederate cavalrymen.

I will probably change the Lakota to Cheyenne if I can find the right UUs for them. I never really thought making them 'southern' was a good idea.

Thanks for pointing that out about the Ironclads. I'll change that too.

The second Seminole war lasted seven years. I think the Seminoles must have had some kind of military power to do that.

I love that map idea. 50 maps would be way too many, so I'll definitely use those ones. Thanks.
posted 08-16-08 06:16 AM EDT (US)     10 / 19  
All four XPack civs are now listed (Spanish Empire, Canada, Haida and Seminole), and the Lakota have been changed into the Cheyenne.
posted 08-16-08 10:46 AM EDT (US)     11 / 19  
A couple of suggestions:

Imperial age: Civs should include Spain for the standalone. The Spanish were still important in the New World long after the Peninsular War drew their attention away from full scale colonization. You can defer Russia and Germany until later, their waves of immigrants and explorers came a full century or more after Spain, France, Britain.

Northern natives: You should probably put Algonquins or Hurons in here. A lot of tension between British and French was over establishing trade monopoly with one or more of the three groups. My vote's for Algonquins because then you can more easily demonstrate the allegiances for the French & Indian wars, and also represent the various Algonquian related groups along the NE coast and in the Ohio valley (Shawnee, Miami, etc) for campaigns in that region.

Southern natives: No schema of Southern economic growth is complete without one or more Muskogean tribes. What's the Creek Wars without the Creeks? A United States centered expansion set needs to have more depth and variety so it won't be "AOE3 without South America, Central America, and the Far North". That means that American campaigns, territories, and civs need more attention.

Cree dog sled should probably be identical in cost, stats, and speed to a German settler wagon - maybe move a bit faster, say 5 or even 6 speed. Being able to garrison units should cause loaded sleds to move at 2/3 speed, but not affect gather rate. That way you can use existing models for travois and settler wagon, and save on mod overhead. They should be limited in number to say 4 or 5. Special bonuses should be available for them for Algonquian players - upgrade cards, a shipment, etc.

Maps: Existing maps are OK, but also consider adding the following, so your campaigns, wars, and disputed territories are adequately represented.

Ohio River: Important in Revolution, Civil War. Map is basically Amazon but with Great Lakes terrains and high value trade routes on either side. Iroquois posts on one side, Algonquian posts on the other. Campaigns: Tecumseh, Revolution, Civil War

Tennessee should have its own map. Maybe use Ozarks, but put more mountains and cliffs. Campaigns: Cherokee Wars, Civil War

Mississippi Delta: Bayou map but with a large, navigable central canal (not a river, but an actual soft-shouldered water body). Many pirate treasures, one or two islands offshore that are buildable. Campaigns: Revolution, Civil War (Blockade of New Orleans)

Need to retain Caribbean as a map. Campaigns: Revolution, War of 1812, Mexican campaigns.

edit: I misread the natives as allies and not standalone civs. Good work.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.

[This message has been edited by As_Saffah (edited 08-16-2008 @ 10:49 AM).]

posted 08-19-08 11:26 AM EDT (US)     12 / 19  
For the Xpack or really just an empire i want to see some russia.
posted 08-20-08 05:41 AM EDT (US)     13 / 19  
@As_Saffah - I can only have 2 empires for the standalone, and France and Britain were more important in North America at this time. This game takes place long after the explorers and pioneers were arriving in the New World.

Algonquins are a good idea, if I can get some UUs for them.

The creeks are also a good idea, but again, I will need UUs.

I don't plan on ever actually making this, but thanks anyway for the Dog Sled ideas. Only thing is, Algonquin players couldn't get a Cree Unique Unit.

Maps for groups of states is OK, so I will keep those. For the campaigns, however, different maps will be included with more specific areas.

---

@Packers1004 - The Russians, like the Algonquins and Creeks, can only be included if I can get UUs. Cossacks and Oprichiniks were out of use by this time, and I can't find anything else.
posted 08-28-08 06:59 PM EDT (US)     14 / 19  
I've got it i've got russian UU's.

strelets: we all know what they are

Hajduks: pretty much the robin hood of russia(freedom fighter,outlaw)

Pikenier: Stronger than traditional pikemen
posted 08-28-08 08:08 PM EDT (US)     15 / 19  
Hajduks operated mostly in areas like Hungary and Romania. It probably wouldn't fit too well for Russia, although technically I guess it could be in.

I wouldn't though.
posted 08-30-08 09:11 AM EDT (US)     16 / 19  
I have put Russians in there for the Xpack. Thanks Packers1004, I used all those UUs. I renamed the Hajduk to Haydamaka, which is the Ukranian word for Hajduk.

For the new Colonial civ, I can't decide between Mexico or maybe a Caribbean country. Does anyone have any idea which one I should use? I'm going to need UUs.

For the Northeners, I can't choose between Algonquins, Ojibwe or Inuit. Again I need help deciding. Whoever I choose, I will need UUs.

Southerners will be the Creeks. I need some UUs for them.
posted 09-04-08 03:26 PM EDT (US)     17 / 19  
Does anyone have ideas about any Colonial or Northern civs? Or Creek UUs?
posted 09-04-08 09:20 PM EDT (US)     18 / 19  
I noticed that you didnt know where the canadian provinces are, here is a suggestion:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Canada_provinces_1867-1870.png

if you look at a modern map now you can see the changes since then!

PS: here are some ideas for maps:

British Empire:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Union_flag_1606_(Kings_Colors).svg

French Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_France.svg

United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_flag_13_stars_–_Betsy_Ross.svg

Confederate States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.svg

Iroquois Confederacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_Iroquois_Confederacy.svg

Cree Tribe
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ouje_Bougounou_Cree.jpg

Cheyenne Nation
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Northern_Cheyenne.svg

Navajo Nation
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Navajo_flag.svg

"This is the flag of a new country, flying from the Mississippi to the Pacific. The thirteen stripes of red and white still represent the thirteen colonies, but they run in a new direction, just as we must chart a new direction for ourselves. [...] God bless you, and God bless the Allied States of America!" -President Tomarchio, first president of the ASA. The flag that he is talking about is in my avatar. This Quote is from the TV series Jericho, one of the best shows on earth.

[This message has been edited by Orowac (edited 09-04-2008 @ 09:37 PM).]

posted 09-10-08 02:57 PM EDT (US)     19 / 19  
Thanks for those and the Canadian map. I will put them in the game.
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Future Robot, Bonfire, Windstorm, and NewToy Games Forum » The new USA
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