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Topic Subject: LpG 2 - Community Design Document
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posted 05-16-05 06:27 PM EDT (US)   
Alright, summer (for me at least) is 10 days away, and my plans for this summer is to start/finish work on my second PHP RPG, this time hopefully we'll have an actual title ^_^.

What I need is tons of ideas and content from the community, since this game is made for you, there's not much sense on not getting as much feedback/ideas as possible from the actual players.

Here's the text:

lpg2:

So if you want to contribute, here's how to:

First.. The Background:
This time around I want to mix elements of the LpRPG and the Legend of the Green Dragon RPGs. I want players to be able to interact and control the world economy like in LpRPG, while having an deep story rich experience like in the Green Dragon RPG. Players would participate in hundreds of quests and little chats with our NPCs, while still interacting tons with other players.

LpG2 will be medieval fantasy, as it seems it's the preferred setting, so we'll have dragons, feudal farmers, mines... etc. Players will be able to "walk around".. or simply move from city to city (similar to what the city module at the Green Dragon RPG was like), each city will be programmed individually and have totally unique content and won't be just something done in 5 mins.

Contribute here!
Here's what we need and how you can help-

Races:
Each race in LpG2 needs to have a complete individual gameplay. Races will each start at their own city (although they'll be able to travel to other cities occupied by other races as well). Each race will have difference combat and economical bonuses, as well as anything you can think of. Contributing an entire new race means making up new cities, quests, weapons.. etc. So it's recommended that races be a democratic pick, that everyone wants in and is ready to back up with ideas.

Cities:
As I said before, each city will be individual in LpG2. Each city has shops for various goods, as well as different taxes on sells/buys. If you wish to contribute a city, tell me the quests in it, the shops, the weapons/goods, NPCs, the speech of each NPC (their response to let's say, your charm level.. as well as entire option based conversations). I suggest we do cities after we define most other things such as races and quests.

Quests:
Quests will be a huge new thing to LpG2. On quests players will be required to fulfill a set of "orders" given to him by the NPC to gain experience/gold in return. Quests may have prequesites (charm level, have completed other quests.. etc) as well as any kind of bonus the quest maker wishes to give. PLEASE, CONTRIBUTE ALL QUESTS THROUGH MY EMAIL (elpea@heavengames.com), we don't want to spoil anything .

NPCs:
Quests won't be the only rewarding game sided experience in LpG2. Sometimes you'll be having a nice conversation with a NPC and you may be rewarded a gift, or even enter combat with the NPC because you made it mad.. maybe the NPC will open up a quest for you.. give you a unique item? The possibilities are limitless. Please, SEND ALL NPC IDEAS THROUGH EMAIL.

Combat:
This was one of the things that bothered me the most in LpRPG.. combat was mostly dull. While I want to keep the simplicity of combat, I want to make it exciting. I'll add small combat modifiers, such as potions, spells, and anything else I can think of while still keeping combat very simple.

Combat Skills:
Here's a list of combat skills:


  • Attack - Attack is the chance the player has of hitting the enemy for X damage.
  • Agility - Agility is the chance the player has of completly defending an attack from the enemy, making the enemy do 0 damage, independent on the enemy's strength.
  • Strength - If the attack is successful, this will determine how much HP you'll take from the enemy.
  • Defense - This determines how much HP the enemy will take from you in case their attack is sucessful.
  • HP - Hitpoints, determines how much damage the player can take before dying.
  • Maskmanship - Unique to archers, this is similar to attack/strength. If you are an archer, at the beginning of each battle you'll attempt to shoot the enemy before joining on hand to hand combat. If the enemy isn't agile enough to avoid the ranged attack, the player can do significat ammount of damage depending on the quality of the bow and the player's maskmanship.
  • Magic - To be used during combat as a normal attack.. I'm not sure I want to keep it.. need ideas.. etc.

Economic Skills:


  • Smithing - Make weapons and armor
  • Mining - Mine different resources to make armor/weapon.. amongst other things
  • Cooking - Make food the restore health, no more hospitals
  • Fishing - Kill chickens, get feathers.. fish, cook fish, make food (using your cooking skill).
  • Herblaw - Make potions for pre-combat stuff.. may find other uses eventually
  • Fletching(Shiva's idea) - Cut trees and make arrows!
  • Need more..

Resources:
I want to add different type of gems, elements.. etc. Basicly, you won't be piling up just one item (like gold) but many different ones depending on your chosen combat/economic skills. Each "resource" will have their value on the economy. There will be many different resources, such as many types of metals to mine, many types of foods to make.. etc. (I hope you understand this last idea ).

I had more in mind, but totally forgot right now ... shoot your ideas here and I'll keep adding.

Magic:
In case we keep magic, here's some spell ideas (contributed by Shiva mostly):


  • Teleportation - Since you said there are many cities in the game, higher magic levels can get you access to tele to a different city. For example, level 1 gets you main town, level 6 gets you another town..etc
  • Alchemy - This basically works like Runescape's does, only it's different in ways. Alchemy inherently is converting an item into money. So, you can use the spell on buyable items in the game and basically geet cash

Towns:
Talanos - Human Starting Town.
Things we want... - Talanos should have a fishing spot, which I think shouldn't be useful at first, but players may comeback later once they have acquired the fishing skill to fish here. Talanos should have small beginners quest that grant some money/exp to get the player started and get them some better armor to push them into the game. Talanos does not have any complicated buildings (no mines, no magic, no guilds..) to keep the beginning simple for new players, and then slowly throw new features at them as they play to keep them interesting . Talanos MAY have an interesting storyline backed quest, which may stretch through other cities.. but that's after a few quests and levels. The shops in Talanos will have cheap/weak armor and weapons for the beginners, it will also have a general shop for food and maybe some quest items requested by the quest giver. Talanos' outskirts will contain very weak monster, which will not attack unless the player looks for monsters to kill (option once the player goes to the city's outskirts, where the fishing and some NPCs are).


Name: Saalran (aka. City of the Moon)
Size: Huge (metropolitan)
Government: Limited democracy, king/Queen (High Cleric) is elected by other clerics
Religion: Moon worship, large clergy
Economy: Rich, mining, trading
Military: Trained, well armed, professional, small army
Populated by: Elves, half-elves, and a minority of humans

Brief history:

Thousands of years ago the many adventurous elves of the trees set out in a journey to find a new forest and home. In an ironic twist of fate they found themselves in an endless land of sand where there were no trees, their supplies ran out and they were forced to settle by the nearby ocean and survive off fishing and making large tunnels into the sand to for mining. However, fate once again turned but in favour of them this time. As time went by other cities sprung up along the coastline farther up and from their settlement and further below, when these cities tried to trade they often had to stop at the elves settlement to re-supply considering the empty desert ahead. The settlement quickly expanded to become a trading and resting station for trading along the coastline and ocean because of their position. The city grew rich on trade, and their mining endeavours proved to find many valuable metals. However the strategic placement of the city made many envy and desire to poses it. Over time many invaders have attempted to take over the city but have yet to do so.

Culture:

The elves of the desert are more open and less conservative then their cousins in the trees. While the elves of the trees strive hard to keep tradition and keep the bloodlines pure, the elves of the desert have been forced to be more open because of all the travelers that come through. As a result, many of the people who live in the lower class are half-elves as they mingled with lesser men. However the higher class clerics still are of pure elven blood.

The moon controls the tide, helps lost sailors at night, is the basis for their calendar, and comes out after the harsh hot sun of the day (a lot of the daily activities happen in the night in the city). As a result they worship the moon. The god of it is neither a he nor she, but an embodiment of all that is good in the world. The people who run this worship are called clerics, and they are the social, political, and spiritual heart of the city. The clergy is what makes up their prophets, priests, advisors, ministers, healers, etc; They can both be male, or female, but have to be of pure elven blood The top cleric serves as both their spiritual pinnacle and their king/Queen.

After leaving the forest the elves that had once depended on wood now had to find alternatives. As a result they have food alternatives in the form of metal and glass. Their city is dotted with great spires of glass that look like the bottoms of great trees that spiral up into a great pinnacle, almost a reminder of the forgotten woods they came from. These are their cathedrals for their worship.

The language they speak is a dialect of elven. Over time their language has been altered by influence from traders from the outside.

Economy:

The city is rich from trade and mining. Trade brings many ideas and inventions to the city that the elves embrace (unlike their conservative cousins). Mining has found good metal under the sands of the desert and provides great income for the city.

In their search for water wells they uncovered a strange black substance that floats on water and burns easier then dry wood. They dubbed this strange substance olioel. They have used in lighting their city at night and applying to their arrows and weapons too terrible affect. They do not trade it and rarely give it out to strangers except for those they consider trustworthy friends because it is a rare substance to find close enough to the surface for harvesting.

Many people of the lower class are merchants who trade and buy with the many traders who come up and down the coastline. Poverty in the city is low and many live in second class homes.

The city still relies on trade to bring food and wood to the city.

Military:

The elves that came out the forests found them sort of trees for yew for their bows and had to find alternatives, which came in the form of metal.

To be a soldier of the city is considered a great honour. They only retain a small defence army, but it is considered to be one of the most trained, disciplined, and best armed force in the land. Using their skill at metal working elven smiths have provided them with weapons that are light, but cut through metal plating. This has allowed them to make weapons that look more like pieces of art and would be unwieldy if it were made out of a heavier metal.

Bows have fallen out of importance, but still have a place in the defence of the city. The main bow of the defenders of the defenders is the crossbow, which fires metal bolts with great accuracy and power, but at less range then the traditional elven longbow. Also, when the city is attacked defenders reveal many hidden contraptions such as chieroballistas, and large ballista that fire great arrows with great accuracy. They have also mastered the art of applying olioel to arrows and creating primitive flammable explosives. The elves in general have given up markmenship for swordmanship.

Their army is not very large, but they have a proud heritage as the city has yet to fall to any attackers. They have defeated armies thrice their size in numbers in the past. They never march out of the city unless it is to counter attack and finish an enemy who has attacked them.

The constant attacks have caused a network of walls and gates to spring up in the city. It is made so that if one section of the city falls the defenders can retreat behind these walls and force the enemy to restart their siege again on the next section of the city.

Advantages to players in the city:
-Weapons (flammable things?)
-Selling merchandise
-Access to port for traveling
-Inn space for staying
-mining
-fishing

Disadvantages:
-Hard to get to by land
-Expensive
-Lack of stable for mounts
-Hard to break law?
-No wood (fletching)

Pictures
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city1/citymoon.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city1/peopleconcept2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city1/soldierconcept.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city1/soldiersflashconcept.jpg

Name: Rulmon
Size: Medium - large
Government: Warring state of warlords, periodic anarchy at periods
Religion: No official religion
Economy: Poor quality of life for most. Wasteland area
Military: Drafted peasants who are poorly trained and armed. Most lords really on mercenaries. Armies can be large when gathered, but are mostly small and privately owned.
Populated by: Humans

Brief history:

The area called Lohind is a desolate land where the earth cracks, and plants whither, it isolated by the geography around it making it difficult to travel through. Humans who lived here were forced to try to scrape together a living off the barren land. As time went by many tribes formed and fought over the land. One particularly powerful tribe settled on a defensible hill and called their village Rulmon, in time their village grew into a great hill fort, and they then built a great castle to show their superiority over the lesser tribes. They ruled the others with an iron fist for a hundred years, putting down all others who opposed them, taking all from the peasants for their own. However the monarchy grew fat and lazy, many of the descendants of the original king lived in luxury and ignorance while the peasants’ hatred of them grew.

Suddenly the dam burst when the newly made king demanded all the gold of the peasants to pay for his crowning ceremony. The peasants revolted and brought down the monarchy and had the king beheaded, and burned down the hated castle that represented all they hated.

When the monarchy fell it left a hole for a new leader. Many tribes that had been suppressed suddenly remerged, while many others were created, a civil war erupted as each tribe tried to fill the hole. The city Rulmon still remained the place of greatest strategic value and the tribe that controls had the greatest power. The castle that had been destroyed was rebuilt by another tribe, until that tribe fell and castle was burned again, in turn that tribe rebuilt the castle, until they were defeated. The process still continues till today, as the castle gets bigger and higher, been built upon the ruins of the previous one.

Culture:

The people of Lohind believe in no god, as they are to busy trying to survive each day, let alone having to worship some deity. They are a warlike people that often resort to violence. Many live by the phrase “live fast, die young” as many die at eighteen when they enter the battlefield.

A phrase as common as asking about the weather is asking who the king is today, as leadership changes from about every two months, to less then a week. Each king rules with an iron fist rule using his mercenaries to keep the peasants obedient and pay their taxes, king is a term in the land applied to the lord who rules Rulmon. Besides the requirement of paying to the lord they follow or joining the army when their leader calls, the land is lawless as people will murder their neighbour over a loaf of bread. Many criminals from other lands flee here to hide in the lawless environment.

Rule is determined by he who wields the most swords. Lords will often hire mercenaries for their army. The greatest of these mercenaries is a group called the Hinaks, it is made up of exiled soldiers, criminals, and ex-gladiators. The mercenaries obey those who pay them the most and will turn on their former provider when someone offers a better deal.

Economy:

For the peasants, gold is worthless except to keep the lords mercenaries away. Many would rather have food then a bag of gold. As a result bartering has become the main way of exchange. A black market and is filled with shady characters, many of whom cheat the peasants by making them play ludicrous prices for items necessary for survival. The only ones who are rich are the lords who collect money and the mercenaries they pay.

Military:

When the lord wants to make war he drafts all peasants older then eighteen and still able to wield arms to the army. Many are forced into it by the king’s mercenaries, the peasants are very poorly armed with whatever they can find, and receive no training. The mercenaries who receive most of the gold are often much better armed and have fighting experience with them.

War is often internal, but once in a while a strong king may gather all the people repel an outside invasion or march off to attack another land.

Advantages to players in the city:

-easier to break law
-can hire mercenaries
-can easily make tribe (no tribe bonuses unless they are in ‘power’)
-chances of getting or making deals

Disadvantages:

-Easier to break law (other players may attack you regardless of timing)\
-tribe can be pushed from power
-higher chance of getting scammed by an NPC or getting attacked

Pictures-
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city2/city2.jpg
Sample people:
From left: Hinak mercenary, armed peasent, peasent male, peasent female
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/LCC_551/LpG/city2/samplepeople.jpg

Staff:
Lead Design: Elpea
Lead Programming: Elpea
Lead Artist: Blitzer
NPC Design: Saralanos
Quest Design: Elpea, Saralanos, Shiva
General Game Design: Elpea, Saralanos, Shiva, Matei, Blitzer


[This message has been edited by Elpea (edited 09-01-2005 @ 10:52 PM).]

Replies:
posted 05-16-05 06:29 PM EDT (US)     1 / 212  
I suggest that people who want to help out with this get MSN, we can talk about it much faster there.

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[This message has been edited by Shiva (edited 05-16-2005 @ 06:30 PM).]

posted 05-16-05 06:31 PM EDT (US)     2 / 212  
I sent you an email on LotgD with suggestions for the game, but maybe you find them useful for this.

Any chance for a need for admins ?


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posted 05-16-05 06:37 PM EDT (US)     3 / 212  
Added resources.


Blitz, could you send those to my email? It's easier to keep track of.

And as for admins, depending on how good I can make the admin tools .. might not have admins until the game is very stable though, since I'll be making this over the summer, maybe I'll be able to teach some of you basic PHP.


Question: Should we do turn based combat? (like, Green Dragon RPG is now.. you attack once per turn until you kill or get killed) or should it be one click like LpRPG?


[This message has been edited by Elpea (edited 05-16-2005 @ 06:39 PM).]

posted 05-16-05 06:39 PM EDT (US)     4 / 212  
Charisma would be a good skill and maybe pick-pocketing or something similar.

One idea I recently had for an RPG I was considering making (but just don't have the time for) is to get rid of classes all together and just go with skills and ratings for each skill. Skill ratings could go up based on how often the skill is used (and other things as well), that way, the character will evolve to the player's style of play.

Or not. Whatever.


Where be your gibes now? your gambols? your songs?
Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar?
Not one now, to mock your own grinning?
posted 05-16-05 06:39 PM EDT (US)     5 / 212  
If you could think up races different than, or at least variations from the standard human/elf/orc/etc. that'd be great.

Quote:

is to get rid of classes all together

Communist!

Oh, and definitely turn-based combat with randomized attack and defense so the combatants have a chance to use powerups during the fight.

[This message has been edited by Zargax (edited 05-16-2005 @ 06:41 PM).]

posted 05-16-05 06:40 PM EDT (US)     6 / 212  
I'm open for any race ideas.

DrNick, that's a good idea, but players like to build up their skill. In LpG2 players will have classes, but that won't stop them from doing other skills, it will simply help them on their favorite one(s).


posted 05-16-05 06:43 PM EDT (US)     7 / 212  

Quote:

Oh, and definitely turn-based combat with randomized attack and defense so the combatants have a chance to use powerups during the fight.

I agree.


Where be your gibes now? your gambols? your songs?
Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar?
Not one now, to mock your own grinning?
posted 05-16-05 06:43 PM EDT (US)     8 / 212  
Ok, Turn based sounds good.. it will help me add magic if we choose to.

posted 05-16-05 06:45 PM EDT (US)     9 / 212  
I'll just say the races here that I can think of:

-Halfling
-Orc
-Goblin
-Dryad
-Human
-Elf (what is an fantasy RPG without them?)
-Dwarf
-Felyne (I have no idea where this came from )
-Ogre
-Dark Elf
-Giant


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posted 05-16-05 06:46 PM EDT (US)     10 / 212  
We need to have 2-4 races, too many will just confuse people, plus, it'll take weeks, even months to add a race... so that would definetly either cut down on quality of work or make the game take ages to be made.

posted 05-16-05 06:47 PM EDT (US)     11 / 212  
*looks through old Ultima books*
Here's some more races, though I don't know what they are:

Bobbit
Fuzzy (WTF?)

uh, I'm guessing a "Bobbit" is a ripoff of Hobbit and I don't know what a "Fuzzy" is.

It might be fun to have an "alien" race, though kind of wierd. Maybe we should make some up because I'm sick of the LotR races.


Where be your gibes now? your gambols? your songs?
Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar?
Not one now, to mock your own grinning?

[This message has been edited by DrNick (edited 05-16-2005 @ 06:48 PM).]

posted 05-16-05 06:47 PM EDT (US)     12 / 212  
well you now have choice then

How many specialties will you allow?


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posted 05-16-05 06:50 PM EDT (US)     13 / 212  
Specialties won't be a one time choose thing, so I'd go for more than 10 and let the players have fun doing what they like and getting "feedback" (money, power.. etc) from it.

posted 05-16-05 06:54 PM EDT (US)     14 / 212  
I always liked the concept of Guilds. Maybe a character could join different guilds and unlock different skills? That could be a good way to make towns different too, as each town could have different guilds and economic specialties.

Just a thought.


Where be your gibes now? your gambols? your songs?
Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar?
Not one now, to mock your own grinning?
posted 05-16-05 06:55 PM EDT (US)     15 / 212  
Guilds? What are they exactly?

posted 05-16-05 06:59 PM EDT (US)     16 / 212  
Incoming rant!

Specialties:

-Brute strength
-Martial Arts (agility?)
-Tinkering (technology and gadgets)
-Wizardy (along the lines of shooting fireballs)
-Shape Shifting
-Beast calling
-necromancy
-Elemental (fire, water, etc)
-Light powers (healing, ummm, etc)
-Markmenship
-Cunning (persuasion, charm, etc)
-Swordsmanship
-Thieving Skills (gaining money from hitting oponnent)
-Evasion

Could you also think of a way to allow players to work cooperativly, maybe to bring down a tough monster? Also somehow increase the importance of clans.

For general purposes a town crier/herald would also be useful for important annoncements.

Me must also have something like stocks


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posted 05-16-05 06:59 PM EDT (US)     17 / 212  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild

Quote:

A guild is an association of people of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards of morality or conduct. Historically they were small business associations, since each crafter was a self-employed individual artisan or part of a small craft shop or co-operative. They exist in modern and medieval incarnations, both of which are discussed in this article. One's view of guilds tends to be heavily colored by one's view of political economy, since the whole history of trade, technology, intellectual property, regulated professions, social security, and professional ethics are entwined with the history of the guilds in Europe.


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posted 05-16-05 07:01 PM EDT (US)     18 / 212  
I meant, how exactly do you mean it should be used within the game?

posted 05-16-05 07:07 PM EDT (US)     19 / 212  
Added Fishing.

posted 05-16-05 07:08 PM EDT (US)     20 / 212  
You should have a Race of Peanuts!

And by being a Peanut you get bonus defence from your hard shell.

EDIT>>>>

We Could call the Race

The ElpeaNuts


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[This message has been edited by nifty_PS2MAN (edited 05-16-2005 @ 07:10 PM).]

posted 05-16-05 07:10 PM EDT (US)     21 / 212  
If you'd like to discuss this stuff over MSN with me and Shiva, add me - hg_xlpx@hotmail.com. I can't add you to my list, since it's full, so please contact me first so a window opens.

posted 05-16-05 07:20 PM EDT (US)     22 / 212  
Races - The standard "Elves - Humans - Trolls" is obvious.

Cities - Allow travel to and fro only after the person aquires a horse/riddable thing, or a ticket on a buggy/ferry, both of which should be expernsive.

    Cities Should Include:
    Starting City
    Tropical Island
    Volcano City
    Water City
    City in the Sky
    Graveyard-Esque City
    Arctic City

You would have a choice of which city tou would go to after starting city, and it would affect your stats somehow (fire/ice/wind powers)



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posted 05-16-05 08:13 PM EDT (US)     23 / 212  
Very rough representation of what Lp and I discussed over MSN:

First city is Talanos Village, it will have these atleast:
- Tavern
- Houses with NPCs that have quests
- Random houses with NPCs that may have minigames or just like to waste your time
- Fishing spot at the river in outskirts of city

Well, obviously, one quest will be to level up until you kill 1 enemy. 2nd could be a short mystery game. Couple others could be where you get items for doing your skills (like maybe Pickaxe for your mining).

- Since Talanos is the first city, the NPCs will explain to you how you fish, mine, salient details like that.

Quest angle:

One NPC, who will be a fisherman...will ask you to collect a bunch of low level fish. But the hard thing here is that the fishing spot is far away from the Village. Between the Village and the Fishing spot lie a bunch of low level monsters that you must defeat (Goblins and such). Since you don't know how to fight them yet, you will have to go to Tavern to find out how to do so. The Tavern is where you have a bunch of people who tell you what they're all about. Some will just randomly tell you to go away, others will explain about skills, give you suggestions, etc.

I suggested to Lp here that we have a Warriors guild which helps the player specialise in that aspect of the game. But he decided that we not focus on Melee that much (unfair to Ranging) and therefore, the second Human city will have two guilds.

- I'm not that sure about the Warrior guild, but it could be like the Tynan's Gym from LoGD where you get to do some special stuff.

- Magic will be a special skill acquired from a third city. Since magic in this game has more to do with peaceful methods (for now, and mostly just teleportation + alchemy), it's not that important early on.

- As for how NPCs go, "and players will actually "talk" to the NPC, as in, like Knights of the Old Republic" and
where you chose what to say to the NPC."


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posted 05-16-05 08:18 PM EDT (US)     24 / 212  
Good, but I think freedom of choice should be more apparent, like someone giving you the option of a skillset, then you progressing with it.

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    jjohn is better than Elpea,and the Fonz put together - BK 101
    You're lucky I love you - Elpea
posted 05-16-05 08:20 PM EDT (US)     25 / 212  
Ok, I could make a rough list of NPC's and do their chat for them... All the lowlife you find in a human city.

Join the Citadel: Total War mod. A modification for Rome: Total War.
Citadel: Total War
Saranalos and Custer's game
I love my bowler hat!
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