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Topic Subject: Ultimate Tips for Newbies
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posted 07-27-03 10:29 PM CT (US)   
Tips for Newbies
by Helmet_Olsonm2

•When you first get the game , don’t play on MSN Gaming Zone until you have some experience under your belt. Play the William Wallace Campaign, learn the ropes, then practice against the computer on single player. I wouldn’t start playing on the zone until you can win a 1v1 against the computer on moderate difficulty, which shouldn’t take very long if you’re devoted and you practice. The reason? Too often, people buy the game and almost immediately get onto the zone to play. With smurfs and decent rookies playing in newb and beginner games, it is easy to get trampled virtually every game if you’re a true newbie. This can destroy confidence, cause extreme frustration, and make you tired of the game because you arent’ winning. Practice up on some winning strategies against the computer on easy difficulty until you have a decent feel for the game. Then dive into rookie games on the zone.

•Don’t continually play the same civilization over and over when you first get started. When I first got AoK, two years ago, I played as the Celts and Franks, almost entirely. It took me a while to get accustomed to the strengths and weaknesses of each of the other civilizations in the game. Diversify yourself; tryout each of the civilizations a few times and find out which one suits your strengths best. If you are good with cavalry, play as the Franks. If your strength is archery, play as the Britons. If you’re an effective raider, play as the Mongols. Find a civilization that suits your best interests and your strengths to maximize your potential. When you find your favorite civilization, read up on some of its guides at the Ultimate AOK Guide .

•Don’t start playing Arabia regularly until you’re proficient and confident on Black Forest. Black Forest is a good map for beginners because it is relatively easy to wall and you’re almost guaranteed homeland security until the Castle or Imperial Age, when playing other rookies. Practice and learn unit combinations and Castle/Imperial Age strategies on Black Forest. Learn when to attack, with what units to attack, and when to advance through the ages. Study, and memorize the brown insert you get with the game. It lists civilization bonus’ and unit counters. This information is your savior when learning the game. If you’re getting attacked by a group of Woad Raiders, grab the insert and look up the counter to Woadies: Archers, scorpions and cavalry archers. Once you become confident on Black Forest, move to Arabia, where you will have to deal with the threat of Feudal Rushes.

•Don’t stop making villagers. Newbies often make the mistake of ceasing the creation of villagers once they get to around 50, because that seems like enough. On a population 200 game, you should always make a bare minimum of 80 villagers. The optimal number for a rookie is 90-100, and once you become an inter, it balloons to around 120 or so. This all depends on the game, but always make more villagers then you think you need. Don’t make them all from one Town Center. Once you reach the Castle Age, make two to three more town centers and pump villagers from each, focusing on gathering as much gold and food as you can to supply your army. Also, build more than one of each military building. In order to amass a strong army in a hurry, you’ll need several barracks’, several stables, and more than one castle.

•Don’t try and learn the Flush (Feudal Rush) until you’re ready. As TrixR4Kidz has stated in an earlier thread of this topic, don’t work on the flush until you can master the Fast Castle. On Rookie Arabia games, most players will either wait till the Castle Age or Imperial to attack. If you can Fast Castle in 18-20 minutes, make a few knights and raid your opponent, you will be talented at the rookie level. Learn to flush once you’ve mastered the Fast Castle. Fast Castles on Black Forest can be effective if your opponent doesn’t have terrific defenses.

•Don’t advance through the ages too quickly. A Feudal Time of 12-15 minutes is fine for a newbie if you have at least 20-30 villagers in the Dark Age. A Castle time of 20-25 minutes is fine for a newbie with 28-45 villagers. It is better for a rookie to advance to the Castle Age in 24 minutes with a good economy than in 20 minutes with an unstable one.

•Speed wins. Learn the hotkeys. In a RTS game, speed is everything. Learn the most efficient ways of attacking and gathering resources. You shouldn’t ever be sitting watching things. There’s always something to do in AoK. If you can gather resources faster than your opponent, make a military faster, and attack faster, you’ll win. Don’t forget economic upgrades. Mill, mining camp and lumber camp upgrades are crucial for economic success.

•Remember that a good economy breeds a good military. You can’t produce a formidable army without a strong economy. On Black Forest rookie games, make sure your economy is strong before you worry about attacking. And while you attack, don’t let your farms go foul. Keep your econ up; make good use of the idle villager button, and don’t be afraid to use spare villies to build a forward base as you attack. If you are attacking with a sizeable army and can sneak some villagers in behind, you can build a castle and some military buildings to wreak havoc on your opponent from up close. Plus, if he has un-mined gold around, make a Town Center by it and mine his gold.

~~~~
Hopefully these tips will help any rookies/newbies who are struggling or are in need of a push in the right direction. With practice and patience, it is possible to become a very good AOK player.


Helmet_Olsomn2
The Library.:.Age of Civilizations
"So I had a choice, either take the word of a madman, or defend America." - President Bush
"Most look up and admire the stars. A champion climbs a mountain and grabs one."

[This message has been edited by Helmet_Olsonm2 (edited 07-27-2003 @ 10:48 PM).]

Replies:
posted 07-28-03 05:25 AM CT (US)     1 / 34  

Quote:

Once you become confident on Black Forest, move to Arabia, where you will have to deal with the threat of Feudal Rushes


Oasis is a good intermidiate point, because your enemy can only attack from 2 sides.


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posted 07-28-03 03:54 PM CT (US)     2 / 34  
Great tips
posted 07-28-03 05:26 PM CT (US)     3 / 34  

Quote:

Oasis is a good intermidiate point, because your enemy can only attack from 2 sides.


That's true. Oasis is a pretty good transitional map between BF and Arabia.

Quoted from brian black:

Great tips


Thanks Brian.

Helmet_Olsomn2
The Library.:.Age of Civilizations
"So I had a choice, either take the word of a madman, or defend America." - President Bush
"Most look up and admire the stars. A champion climbs a mountain and grabs one."
posted 07-28-03 07:01 PM CT (US)     4 / 34  
Good Post.

Also, after you master the art of fast castling, practice booming. A good flush does nothing if you can't boom after reaching castle.


Spiderman reminds me of adolsence: One day, a teenager wakes up and finds great strength, hair in new places, and the ability to spray white goo around the house.
posted 07-29-03 05:04 AM CT (US)     5 / 34  

Quote:

Also, after you master the art of fast castling, practice booming.

As you get more experienced, the amount of time before you attack decreases.



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posted 07-29-03 05:24 AM CT (US)     6 / 34  
Nice post, maybe add something about recorded games and it would be complete
posted 07-29-03 09:19 AM CT (US)     7 / 34  
I would add:
Read One Eyed King's 18 minute castle guide here: http://oekfastcastle.4t.com /
and then read some of the other strats on this page: http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aokcgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=3,28794,0,10

I would also suggest trying to move on from playing against the computer as soon as you can castle in 20 minutes and beat it on 'Hard' setting. After that, playing against the computer is best for practising particular strategies only. Do not try to beat it on 'Hardest', that can be frustrating for anyone as the computer gets extra resources, i.e. it cheats, on 'Hardest'.

posted 07-29-03 11:56 AM CT (US)     8 / 34  
Thanks from a newbee. Just one question tho: where's the best place to download recorded games?
posted 07-29-03 12:09 PM CT (US)     9 / 34  
And my suggestion is to stray away from other people's made strategies. We all know the flush, and we all know it's signs. if you create your own strategy that compiles your civ, your skills, and your personality that is unique only to you...you can suprise your enemy with something he/she doesn't expect.


Create your own strategy, don't try and become someone else.

posted 07-29-03 01:39 PM CT (US)     10 / 34  
Well aok.heavengames.com the recorded game forum there are some nice games if u really want xpert games go to here, u can try and go to the fopt clan site
Here
That is some good sites to find games on.

Proud member of the One and Only
The best clan ever TOAO
ZN: TOAO_Boomer__
E-Mail: peterdavidsen@hotmail.com

posted 07-29-03 04:32 PM CT (US)     11 / 34  

Quote:

And my suggestion is to stray away from other people's made strategies. We all know the flush, and we all know it's signs. if you create your own strategy that compiles your civ, your skills, and your personality that is unique only to you...you can suprise your enemy with something he/she doesn't expect.


I disagree with that. While the element of surprise is nice, you can still have that. When the game starts, your opponent doesn't know if you're flushing, trushing, drushing, crushing, or booming. There are too many good strategies out there, that to avoid them all would be rather ignorant.
Sometimes conforming is good. For instance, in the Industrial Revolution, if America hadn't conformed to Europe's Industrial Revolution in the 1700's, we might still be making houses out of mud and roasting gophers over fires for dinner.

Helmet_Olsomn2
The Library.:.Age of Civilizations
"So I had a choice, either take the word of a madman, or defend America." - President Bush
"Most look up and admire the stars. A champion climbs a mountain and grabs one."
posted 07-29-03 06:08 PM CT (US)     12 / 34  

All good points, Helmet!

Here's an oddity:

For once I actually agree with Intimatum!

(Quick! What's the date today?)

Use the CPU opponents to accustom yourself to new routines, such as building with unfamiliar civs or exploring alternate build schemes, but play people (online or over LAN, or both) to gain tactical and strategic expertise.

S.

posted 07-29-03 07:00 PM CT (US)     13 / 34  
Saxmund, does this mean you've now played online? A record of that would be interesting, especially given the controversial nature of your strategies. Seeing the juggernaut in action would also be quite cool.
posted 07-30-03 01:15 AM CT (US)     14 / 34  
Even nebies should shoot for a Fast Castle (FC) time of under 20 minutes with 27 or 28 vils. Anything over that is going to be consider as if the player was fuedal age fighting and then castled later.

Only if you are flushing should you make over 30 vils before going to Castle (not including fishing boats on water).

For some it maybe easier learning one civ and strat to an extent and then branching it off into different civs and different strats. Then you will see the subtle differences rather than completely randomizing strats and civs when starting out and not knowing any very well.

Besides black forest another good board to work on your booming skillz is michi.

Good thread Helmet keep up the good work.

posted 07-30-03 01:26 AM CT (US)     15 / 34  

Quote:

As you get more experienced, the amount of time before you attack decreases.

Not really. As you get more experienced, you will know when to attack and when not to. Sometimes attacking early isn't the best strategy - there is a certain point where the damage you do to the opponent's economy is less than the damage you are doing to your own economy from attacking early.


Spiderman reminds me of adolsence: One day, a teenager wakes up and finds great strength, hair in new places, and the ability to spray white goo around the house.
posted 07-30-03 05:44 AM CT (US)     16 / 34  
By following many of these advices, you will stay on lower "skill" longer. Why you say ? Because if you do those you learn "mistakes" which you will have problems removing later.

For once they should never play vs the comp for "training" like that. What they do is write down some common flush/fast castle etc strats and train on em offline (ie singleplayer) until they can get almost perfect times. Then its time to get online.

And keep training online on the same strategies.

By doing this players has came from nothing and become good in around three months.


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 07-30-03 04:46 PM CT (US)     17 / 34  

Quote:

By following many of these advices, you will stay on lower "skill" longer. Why you say ? Because if you do those you learn "mistakes" which you will have problems removing later.


That's incorrect.

Quote:

For once they should never play vs the comp for "training" like that. What they do is write down some common flush/fast castle etc strats and train on em offline (ie singleplayer) until they can get almost perfect times. Then its time to get online.


You just contradicted yourself, making yourself incorrect...once again...

Helmet_Olsomn2
The Library.:.Age of Civilizations
"So I had a choice, either take the word of a madman, or defend America." - President Bush
"Most look up and admire the stars. A champion climbs a mountain and grabs one."
posted 07-30-03 05:49 PM CT (US)     18 / 34  
Helmet_Olsonm2:

No and no...

Im not incorrect, you told em to play the computer till they manage to beat it @ moderate level...
Now what I said was that they should train on some already made "strategies" until they could manage to do em. I never said anything on that they had to beat a comp on any level, all they need to do is try it again and again. They dont even need to attack the enemy, when they have reached feudal they can restart and do it again.

Thats two different things, by your versions they might learn some bad mistakes, as they dont follow any good buildup and makes theyr own. Which can be all from going feudal with 8 vills etc.

And please dont tell me that a habit is easy to change please. If you make up a habit in this game, that is just as hard to change as a "habit" in rl.


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 07-30-03 05:59 PM CT (US)     19 / 34  
The DM (Death Match)is a nice way to master the 'fighting' part of the game.
It makes u aware of how to counter attacks and how to attack.

Learn those counterunits


What Light?! - I'm In The Dark Here!
posted 07-30-03 09:20 PM CT (US)     20 / 34  

Quote:

No and no...


[/denial]

Quote:

Im not incorrect, you told em to play the computer till they manage to beat it @ moderate level...


Yes i did say that.

Quote:


Now what I said was that they should train on some already made "strategies" until they could manage to do em. I never said anything on that they had to beat a comp on any level, all they need to do is try it again and again. They dont even need to attack the enemy, when they have reached feudal they can restart and do it again.


Okay. I Never above mentioned that they should try their own strategies and they shouldn't read up on internet strategies. Of course I think all newbies who want to get better need to read up on net strategies early on in their playing days, so they develop good habits. I never said they shouldn't; thus, you're using arguments for your case that are non-existent. I do think you should play out a whole game though; learn and practice fighting in real time, and how to react to enemy units on the fly.

Quote:


Thats two different things, by your versions they might learn some bad mistakes, as they dont follow any good buildup and makes theyr own. Which can be all from going feudal with 8 vills etc.


What, according to my "tips for newbies" will cause them to make mistakes? I never said they should go to Feudal with 8 villies, that would contradict my point that they are to read up on strats on the net, practice them vs. the computer, then move onto the zone.

Quote:


And please dont tell me that a habit is easy to change please. If you make up a habit in this game, that is just as hard to change as a "habit" in rl.


Where did this come from? I never suggested habits are easy to change. I've had to break plenty of bad habits in AoK, and it's not easy. But I don't think my "tips for newbies" is teaching bad habits.

Helmet_Olsomn2
The Library.:.Age of Civilizations
"So I had a choice, either take the word of a madman, or defend America." - President Bush
"Most look up and admire the stars. A champion climbs a mountain and grabs one."
posted 07-31-03 06:07 AM CT (US)     21 / 34  
Helmet_Olsonm2:

The problem with you is that you think your smart, but your the oposite. Many of the hints youve given is just prolonging theyr rookie status.

Quote:

•When you first get the game , don’t play on MSN Gaming Zone until you have some experience under your belt. Play the William Wallace Campaign, learn the ropes, then practice against the computer on single player. I wouldn’t start playing on the zone until you can win a 1v1 against the computer on moderate difficulty, which shouldn’t take very long if you’re devoted and you practice. The reason? Too often, people buy the game and almost immediately get onto the zone to play. With smurfs and decent rookies playing in newb and beginner games, it is easy to get trampled virtually every game if you’re a true newbie. This can destroy confidence, cause extreme frustration, and make you tired of the game because you arent’ winning. Practice up on some winning strategies against the computer on easy difficulty until you have a decent feel for the game. Then dive into rookie games on the zone.


Even if they play vs 2 computer oponents on hardest, it still will be MUCH easier than playing vs a human player. Hence the training is a waste. The only thing that can be done in sp, is to train on a build. Thats all. Playing against the computer to train on "real gaming" is a joke.

Quote:

•Don’t start playing Arabia regularly until you’re proficient and confident on Black Forest. Black Forest is a good map for beginners because it is relatively easy to wall and you’re almost guaranteed homeland security until the Castle or Imperial Age, when playing other rookies. Practice and learn unit combinations and Castle/Imperial Age strategies on Black Forest. Learn when to attack, with what units to attack, and when to advance through the ages. Study, and memorize the brown insert you get with the game. It lists civilization bonus’ and unit counters. This information is your savior when learning the game. If you’re getting attacked by a group of Woad Raiders, grab the insert and look up the counter to Woadies: Archers, scorpions and cavalry archers. Once you become confident on Black Forest, move to Arabia, where you will have to deal with the threat of Feudal Rushes.


Again, by playing bf you learn bad habits. How ? Cause you find out all you really need to do is to wall, then after you can take it easy till you imp. If they play on more open maps, they get to know there is things as rading which they then gotta defend vs. And will try to do themself.

Quote:

•Don’t stop making villagers. Newbies often make the mistake of ceasing the creation of villagers once they get to around 50, because that seems like enough. On a population 200 game, you should always make a bare minimum of 80 villagers. The optimal number for a rookie is 90-100, and once you become an inter, it balloons to around 120 or so. This all depends on the game, but always make more villagers then you think you need. Don’t make them all from one Town Center. Once you reach the Castle Age, make two to three more town centers and pump villagers from each, focusing on gathering as much gold and food as you can to supply your army. Also, build more than one of each military building. In order to amass a strong army in a hurry, you’ll need several barracks’, several stables, and more than one castle.


The optimal villager nr vill always stay around 120+vills no matter if your good or not.

Quote:

•Don’t try and learn the Flush (Feudal Rush) until you’re ready. As TrixR4Kidz has stated in an earlier thread of this topic, don’t work on the flush until you can master the Fast Castle. On Rookie Arabia games, most players will either wait till the Castle Age or Imperial to attack. If you can Fast Castle in 18-20 minutes, make a few knights and raid your opponent, you will be talented at the rookie level. Learn to flush once you’ve mastered the Fast Castle. Fast Castles on Black Forest can be effective if your opponent doesn’t have terrific defenses.


Its just as easy for someone learning to flush before learning to fast castle. Hence if they flush in a "rookie" game they will be even better than those that fast castle.

Quote:

•Don’t advance through the ages too quickly. A Feudal Time of 12-15 minutes is fine for a newbie if you have at least 20-30 villagers in the Dark Age. A Castle time of 20-25 minutes is fine for a newbie with 28-45 villagers. It is better for a rookie to advance to the Castle Age in 24 minutes with a good economy than in 20 minutes with an unstable one.


Always strive for perfection. If you try a flush and goes with 24pop and you reach that after 11.10min then you need to improve. Getting a "normal" advance time isnt as hard as it sounds. Just remember to keep the idle time from the tc down. This is archived by forcedropping food like 5sec before the vill is finish if you dont have enogh to que another vill. Also try to kill all game under the tc.

----------

Quote:

Okay. I Never above mentioned that they should try their own strategies and they shouldn't read up on internet strategies. Of course I think all newbies who want to get better need to read up on net strategies early on in their playing days, so they develop good habits. I never said they shouldn't; thus, you're using arguments for your case that are non-existent. I do think you should play out a whole game though; learn and practice fighting in real time, and how to react to enemy units on the fly.


You never mentioned they should read on some strategies on the net either. And what is the use of playing vs a computer ai ? Theyr so stupid and easy to beat that its no use.

Quote:

What, according to my "tips for newbies" will cause them to make mistakes? I never said they should go to Feudal with 8 villies, that would contradict my point that they are to read up on strats on the net, practice them vs. the computer, then move onto the zone.


Read what I wrote about your thread. And again your point never stated that they was gonna read on strategies on the net before starting to play.

Quote:

Where did this come from? I never suggested habits are easy to change. I've had to break plenty of bad habits in AoK, and it's not easy. But I don't think my "tips for newbies" is teaching bad habits.


Read what I wrote about your thread.

Also remind your friend Helmet_StalkR to reply to me with what times hes online. That is if he didnt get scared when he saw my rating, if thats the case then I was right in the comment before.


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

[This message has been edited by Myll_Slaghter (edited 07-31-2003 @ 06:08 AM).]

posted 07-31-03 07:48 AM CT (US)     22 / 34  
Good post.

Okay guys, no need to start a flame war, though _Slaghter is giving some good advance in his posts.

posted 07-31-03 10:15 AM CT (US)     23 / 34  

Quote:

And what is the use of playing vs a computer ai

Learning hotkeys, and just the general idea of the game.


What Light?! - I'm In The Dark Here!
posted 07-31-03 10:56 AM CT (US)     24 / 34  
....and also you dun hv a lag game versus comps
posted 07-31-03 11:27 AM CT (US)     25 / 34  
I recommend:

Practice openings vs the AI. 20 minute games tops.

Learn to Flush first! Learning to fight and do econ at the same time is the toughest part of this game. Get it out of the way.

Practice a certain civ for a while, say a week at a time, at least your openings. Playing random will be a blur.

There are no uber civs per se, but huns dominate on open maps, vikings water.

Download the unit tables from MFO and learn them, every last spread sheet cell. And not the XLS version, is has errors, only the HTML ones are correct.

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