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Topic Subject: Guide To Medieval Language
posted 07-04-01 02:16 AM CT (US)   
"'`~., Guide To Medieval Language ,.~`'"


Whenever you play a fantasy or medieval scn, the words used in there will be different in the modern world.

I - Introduction to medieval language

Modern computer gamers like us, play games such as AoK rather than reading Shakespeare's books. If you try to find an antique equivalent for each word you want in your dialogues, you will end up with languages that might be difficult for the player to understand. So medieval languages ain't as difficult to duplicate as you might think.

To simplify it, please read these following three dialogues of greetings from a peasant to a knight.

"Hail, fair sir knight! And what bringeth thee to these perilous woods this fine eventide? Be it the tales of a dragon hereabouts?"

"Good day, sir knight! What brings you to these dangerous woods this evening? Have you heard the rumors of a dragon nearby?"

"Hey, knight! Whatcha doin' in the woods after dark? You looking for that dragon they say lives around here?"

The first one, is over duplicated, and sounds corny. The third one is way to modern, if the peasant is saying that, he must be wearing a baseball cap backwards and is on a skateboard. The second is reasonable, mix between modern and medieval style, a great way to duplicate dialogues.

II - how to use thee, thou, thy and etc.

In many European countries, like germany and france, have two forms of you. in French, the singular form is tu, and the plural form is vous.

Old england medieval languages, use thou for "you" singular, and ye for "you" plural.

Changing the "you"'s in your sentenses to thou and ye will immediately give you a sense of antiquity.

thou is a much more special form of subject, and has it'z own verb forms such as:

to be - thou art - example - Where art thou? : where are you?
to do - thou dost
to plot - thou plottest

Thee is to thou as him is to he. thee can never be the subject of the sentense, only a object. Example: Thank thee *it's short for I thank thee*
Thy and thine, works just like my and mine

III - using shall

Shall is rarely heard in the american language now. Americans replace shall with will. But in order to make a medieval/fantasy dialogue more interesting, i recommend you using shall. shall is mainly used for commands. That's why shall is used in the "Ten Commandments", and it's more specific than will. Shall is a good word to use when you are giving instruction to the player. here's an example: "thou shalt take this sword to the archmage of the forests." Sounds more antique, huh?


** Section III added - 7-3-01 11:33 p.m. **

~ The Conqueror



- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."

[This message has been edited by The_Conqueror (edited 07-04-2001 @ 12:39 PM).]

Replies:
posted 07-04-01 03:19 AM CT (US)     1 / 21  
Good post! I give it a ten! Hehe.

I'm American and I use shall all the time. I use old English words in some of my sentences too; mainly because I am good at literature.

In addition, if you know any Shakespeare try to use some of his words in your text messages, such as: to think = to ponder; to feel depressed = to somber.

posted 07-04-01 12:23 PM CT (US)     2 / 21  
T
_O
__P
___!

- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 12:35 PM CT (US)     3 / 21  
Correction: The 2nd form singular form of the modal "shall" is shalt. This is why it says in the 10 commandments "thou shalt not kill".

Raq miláh be'ivrít ħodéret el orqái, el nišmatí - Only a word in Hebrew penetrates into my veins, into my soul
I swear, Hebrew is one of the coolest and funniest languages I've ever heard. It's great, and some of the swears are fun. - Talon Karrde
posted 07-04-01 12:42 PM CT (US)     4 / 21  
corrected

actually i orginally was gonna use the correct form, but i don't want people to wonder why it's not shall, instead it's shalt. i don't have time last night to write an explanation, so i use shall.

thx Jeru


- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 01:02 PM CT (US)     5 / 21  
Do you even know old or middle english?

I doubt you do.

posted 07-04-01 01:07 PM CT (US)     6 / 21  
Thou hast madest a good post.

A few points of interests I want to use in my upcoming campain: The Languages of J.R.R. Tolkein.


A experimental guide to Quenya

More Information


The Black Speech

A fairly good Quenya dictionary

The Best of Tolkeins Langugaes

Another good page


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posted 07-04-01 01:07 PM CT (US)     7 / 21  
This is not middle or old english, this is technically new english, not modern necessarilly, but new english. Old english would be completely unrecognizable and middle english nearly impossible to pick out what words are what if you have not been educated in it. But this could still help those who haven't had to memorize large portions of the King James Bible(which unfortunately during my elementary years I had to do) lol

The protagonist is trying very hard to think very clearly about trying not to think about something else. Read it again.

=== Destiny of Arcadia ===

Projects: DoA: Saviour of Valgard

posted 07-04-01 01:22 PM CT (US)     8 / 21  
CORRECTION - THIS IS THE KING JAMES TYPE ENGLISH, NOT MODERN, BUT NEW. MY MAIN PURPOSE IS JUST TO SHOW HOW TO USE THEE, THOU, THY AND ETC SO PEOPLE CAN HAVE MORE ANTIQUITY IN THEIR SCNS.

- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 01:25 PM CT (US)     9 / 21  
This sounds exactly like an AoKPunk map design article I have already read before.

¤---Insert Loco's new sig here---¤


posted 07-04-01 03:18 PM CT (US)     10 / 21  
Just to inform ALL of you: it's called christian english.

•[New member of Wildfire Studios]•
"I
don't want a signature. I'm just a victim of group-pressure."
posted 07-04-01 03:22 PM CT (US)     11 / 21  
This made the front page......
posted 07-04-01 03:23 PM CT (US)     12 / 21  
@ cherub Loco:

urrr.... when was that AoK article posted?


- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 04:03 PM CT (US)     13 / 21  
I presume The_Conqueror's post was influenced by this article:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/designers_notebook/20000229.htm

It provides additional information and is well worth a read.


thanks

posted 07-04-01 04:32 PM CT (US)     14 / 21  
Hmm interesting!
But for people as I, who speaks really bad english... read medieval english can be horrendus!!!!!
posted 07-04-01 06:07 PM CT (US)     15 / 21  
@ kharn:

yeah, the peasant/knight conversation was from that article, i also found some other sites with good info


- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 08:59 PM CT (US)     16 / 21  
Come on man, cant we just talk about games?I think you have way to much time on your hands. If you want old english, talk latin. For example: Faites Vos Devour Preaux Chevaliers or Cave Adsum.
posted 07-04-01 09:06 PM CT (US)     17 / 21  
@ SirGareth:

This article is for SCN designers, the SD forum is for scn designers, not gamers


- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 09:24 PM CT (US)     18 / 21  
There's no point in using old english in a scenario. Its like watching a Japanese movie untranslated, IMHO. I mean sure its more realistic, but most people won't understand most old english anyways.

-TDS

*EDIT*

Hmm... actually I take that back. Maybe its does make a scenario more fancy and professional. I'll have to try it.

[This message has been edited by The Downward Spiral (edited 07-04-2001 @ 09:27 PM).]

posted 07-04-01 10:18 PM CT (US)     19 / 21  
Excuse me, just thought to make a correction. Someone earlier said it was Christian English...I would have to disagree. I don't believe there is anything called Christian English. You can't really classify languages by religion any since nearly all languages spoken have many diverse religions.

The protagonist is trying very hard to think very clearly about trying not to think about something else. Read it again.

=== Destiny of Arcadia ===

Projects: DoA: Saviour of Valgard

posted 07-04-01 10:59 PM CT (US)     20 / 21  
yeah TDS, you should try it a bit it makes you have a sense of antiquity when you play a scn

- "Nobody dies a virgin; life screws us all."
- "you can't clap without both hands."
- "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken."
- "Yes, they may indeed be idiots, but we are surrounded by idiots anyway; variations can be amusing."
- "Warm and fuzzy, kinda like a burning kitten."
- "We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture."
posted 07-04-01 11:03 PM CT (US)     21 / 21  
Nice post!

Well, AoK uses some old English. Ofr example, if a computer resigns, he says something like this:

Too many birds flew over mine kingdom,
No wonder thou wert victorious, I shall abdicate!

I have a question: Is treacherous and tranquil old English or is it simply words used in the 1800s. I know that they're still there but they're not used too often anymore.


"Einstein is a fool." - Schrodinger
"The way to chastity is not to struggle with incontinent thoughts but to avert the thoughts by some employment, or by reading, or by meditating on other things, or by conversation. " - Sir Isaac Newton
CC | AoPS | M-W | PF | SSP | OCW | IBS | KCLS | CB
"We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this something, at whatever cost, must be attained" - Marie Curie
"I was taught that the way of progress is neither swift nor easy" - Marie Curie
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