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Topic Subject: The Flush -- Revisited
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posted 08-31-03 02:44 PM CT (US)   
NOTE: THIS GUIDE IS NOW HEAVILY OUTDATED. IT WILL BE UPDATED SOON, WITH A FOCUS ON THE MANY FLUSH BUILDS THESE DAYS (22 pop, 24 pop, 25 pop).

The Flush -- Revisited

Introduction

Why is this here?

It appears that most people lack the knowledge of what a Flush is, what a Flush does, and even more, why a Flush wins games.

What is "a Flush?"

The term, "Flush" stood for "Feudal Rush" when it was invented a long time ago, back in AoK. Nowadays, the "Flush" isn't just a "Feudal Rush," it's the strategy that defines how the game is now played. Everywhere you go in Zone Rated RM, you'll see a Flush, be it Huns or not (the Huns are the most popular civ to Flush with). Why? With Spears/Skirms going down your throat and disrupting your economy and killing Vils every now and then, you're going to be behind economically. There is one real counter to a Flush: you must Flush the other person.

Where did it come from?

Although you could credit many people for inventing it, and changing it over the years, the first real strategy article on the Flush was made by gutter_rat. He used a strategy in which he would choose Chinese (this was back in AoK, where the Chinese were the best civ), get a 12:xx minute Feudal time (with 26 Vils, which is actually SLOW when you compare it to the Flush nowadays), and start attacking the other player with Archers and Towers.

How did it change?

For one, Towers. Towers are slow to build, and stone is slow to mine. Your Vils could be better put elsewhere (especially the forward Vils), on food or wood. Gold is also slow to mine; Flushers rarely mine gold at the start of Feudal so that they can get more food and wood. Instead of just Archers and Towers now, it's Spears and Skirmishers, two good units that cost NO gold or stone. Massed Skirmishers (at least fifteen) and a few Spears can give enemy Vils headaches.

Previously, the first Flush only used one Range. However, now, it is common to see the Flusher make two Ranges immediately upon entering Feudal. Also, the Flusher researches Double-Bit Axe immediately (more wood), and gets two Spears out of the Rax that was built during the transition to Feudal. As always, the Flusher will keep up 100% Vil production. Later on, the Flusher would get a Stable, and get Scouts to harrass Vils, as Scouts are the fastest unit in Feudal, and get +2 attack (for a total of 5 base attack) in Feudal. A Blacksmith is also important when fighting in Skirm wars. Skirms with Fletching have an advantage over Skirms without Fletching.

When the Flusher starts mining gold at around the 15:xx minute mark, he's able to get Bloodlines for his Scouts, making them extremely effective killing units that can take on Archers, Skirms, and even MAA. With gold flow, he can get Archers, and when Archers are FU, they don't do that bad against Skirms (however, when Archers are not FU, like at the start of Feudal, they do horribly against Skirms).

A typical Flusher now Castles at around the 25:xx minute mark, when his food flow is stable (yes, he's still making Vils all the time), and after he's researched Wheelbarrow (which is priceless for a good economy).

The Flush has also sped up. With a 24 pop Feudal (23 Vils and a Scout), you can easily get an 11:xx minute Feudal time.

Civs?

Usually the "faster" civs are good Flushers. "Faster" civs are the civs that have an economy bonus in Dark that REALLY helps.

Huns - No Houses. You save 30 wood and 25 Vil seconds (the amount of time it takes to build a House) every 5 pop (every House, basically). That gives you at least 30 wood every 5 pop (although the Huns do start with a 100 wood deficit), and with the 25 Vil seconds saved, your Vils can be getting more wood instead of building Houses. This is why the Huns are used as the Flushing civ. No Houses also means that you'll never get Housed. Nifty, huh? Coupled with the fact that their Scouts get out 20% faster because of their faster Stables, the Huns can easily dominate the rest of the competition.

Mongols - Faster hunting. With faster hunting, the Mongols can use less Vils and Flush faster. With more food coming in faster, they can also get some Deer, and perhaps, get Scouts right away with a Stable and a Range instead of two Ranges.

Aztecs - +5 carry. When Vils carry more resources, they would dump their resources slower, but in more amounts. Why is this a bonus? When you have a Lumber Camp crowded with ten or more Vils, a normal civ would have to put up with the Vils only getting 10 wood and taking more trips back to the LC. However, with the Aztecs, the Vils take less trips back to the LC, so that the chances of the Vils bumping into each other is much less (Vils that bump into each other slow your resource collecting down). Not to mention that the Aztecs get free Loom; speeding you up a little bit more for a faster Feudal. The Aztec farmers also appear to Farm 11% faster, due to the +5 carry bonus and some weird bug that allows them to not move around as much (thanks, Intimatum). Not to mention that the Aztecs have faster-working military buildings (15%).

Mayans - 20% longer-lasting natural resources, cheaper archers. Although the resource bonus doesn't mean that resources are collected faster, it's still useful in that your food (Boar, Sheep) lasts longer in Dark. For those of you who don't know how the bonus works, it's like this: a Mayan Vil collects 10 wood from a tree. The Tree is left with 92 wood, although the Vil is holding 10 wood (he takes the maximum amount that he can carry, but only strips the resource of 80% of what he took). They also get cheaper archers.

Britons - They gather food from Sheep faster, which is a notable bonus. They also have 20% faster Ranges, which is good, but at the start of Feudal, this bonus doesn't show its complete advantage, due to the fact that you'll be short on food or wood early-Feudal. However, later, this bonus starts to really shine, as you get more Skirms (or Archers, if you've switched) than your opponent.

Having listed those civs, the Aztecs and Mayans are at a HUGE disadvantage without Scouts. A few Scouts will single-handedly destroy a bunch of Skirms without Spear backup. Once the Flusher Castles, the non-Meso civs have Knights, the most powerful Castle-age unit. The Meso civs get EWs, which pale in comparison to Knights; Knights cost 60 food and 75 gold, and when FU in Castle, they are these monsters with 120 HP, 12 attack, and 4/4 armour. EWs cost 20 food and 50 gold, and when FU in Castle, they are these hyperactive boys with 50 HP, 9 attack, and 2/4 armour.

There are other notables with other non-Dark bonuses, like the Byzantines with cheaper Skirms.

Can't you stop it?

Towers?

For 25 wood and 125 stone, you get a non-mobile "Archer" that stands there. When you build a few Towers around your wood, gold, stone, etc. you are not invincible. Towers can be easily avoided; Scouts can still come in, kill some Vils before they garrison into the nearest Tower, and run away again. Towers also have a minimum range; you can have them fully-garrisoned, and they won't attack units standing at the base of the Tower (until you get to Castle, make a University, and get Murder Holes, that is). While your Vils are stuck inside the Tower, they're not doing anything useful; your economy is slowing down.

Can't I garrison other units in my Towers?

If you intend on building Towers, don't garrison them with Archers or other units. They're not really going to help when Scouts are at the base of the Tower, hacking away. Also, your Vils have NOWHERE to go unless you ungarrison your units (which would be ranged; melee units are useless in Towers), and if your units are Archers, that's bad when you plop them out in front of a group of Scouts.

Walls?

Here's where a difference is made. Palisade Walls are actually good; a Flusher will use them himself in order to wall up some chokepoints. They're fast to build, and they only cost two wood per section. However, stone Walls are also good, but don't turtle yourself in. Stone Walls are stronger, but they cost five stone per section, and take a little longer to build. Although Palisades may die to Scouts, Spears, Skirms, or Archers, Palisades still give you a fair warning of where the enemy units are, so you can move your Scouts/Spears/Skirms/Archers in place to take his units on.

Build Order

Huns

A typical Hun Flush goes like this (build order by Myll_Slaghter):

3 Vils: Either help Scout, or chop a straggler (tree by your TC).
TC: H-C-C-C-C. Queue up 4 Vils with the 200 food you get. Don't use H-Shift-C; the game might not recognize the Shift and only may queue up 1 Vil.
Scout: Start Scouting for Sheep in circles, and be sure to not overlap areas where you've already Scouted, as that wastes time.
4 Sheep: Once you've found them, send two Sheep to the TC, and send the other two Sheep scouting, helping the Scout (you're not going to lose your sheep, trust me) in opposite directions (for example, if your Scout has gone north-east, send one Sheep around north-west, and the other south-west). The other two Sheep are to be placed directly onto your TC; one Sheep will be processed by your three Vils (get them to dump off their wood first), and the other will stand by waiting.
Vils 4-6: Sheep. Whenever a Sheep is done, move another Sheep nearby it. Keep only six Vils to one Sheep, make sure that you don't kill an extra Sheep. Always only keep two Sheep on the TC; one being harvested, and the other, alive, standing by.
Vil 7: Lumber Camp. A Flusher needs wood.
Vils 8-11: Wood (by the LC).
Vil 12: After he's made, hit Loom, and get the Vil to wait by a Boar. When the Loom is 80% done, start luring the Boar.
Vil 13: Mill your Berries (you'll need that Mill for Farms).
Boar: When the Boar is chasing your Vil back to your TC, garrison your lurer, and get all the Vils on Sheep to drop off their food, and then shoot the crap out of that Boar. That bastard needs to die.
Vil 14: Sheep (the one that was being harvested). Ungarrison your lurer to that Sheep, too, so that you have two on Sheep.
Vil 15: Berries.
Vil 16: Lure the second Boar.
Vils 17-21: Boar. Move the wounded Vils (you should have four wounded Vils from the Boar luring, the two lurers, and the two Vils that took the "hits" while your lurers were garrisoned safely in your TC) to Farms. Make the four Farms by the right-hand side of your TC; tests have shown that the right-hand side of your TC gathers food from Farms slightly faster.
Vil 22: Make a second Lumber Camp, either on another forest if your first forest is small, or on the same forest, if the forest is big (but farther away, don't put the LC right next to the first one).
Vil 23: Wood (by the second LC).
(Vil 24): Optional. Wood.

Now, garrison all your food Vils around your TC (Sheep, Boar, Farms) so that they drop off all their food. If you have 500, hit Feudal. Then press "W" to send them back to work (they do it automatically).

Once they have finished, move all your Boar Vils except for two to wood. Those two will make a Barracks. Make the Barracks so that it faces where your enemy is (hopefully you've Scouted him out by now, so that you know where his 7 gold-pile and his wood are).

Once you hit Feudal (11:xx minutes), queue up 2 Vils at the TC (and keep the production up 100%; Vils before military, until you research Wheelbarrow when you get enough food), research Double-Bit Axe (faster wood; you WON'T need any more Vils on wood, unless your wood Vils die to enemy units), make two Spears at your Barracks, and with the two Vils that made your Barracks, get each of them starting on a Range.

Make Spears, Skirms, and Vils all the time. Send all your Vils to food (some on Berries, but most on new Farms). Make a Stable ASAP, and get a few Scouts. When you're done your Berries (with 6 Vils at around the 15:xx minute mark), send those Berrie Vils to your gold (make a Mining Camp). Get Bloodlines when you have enough gold, and when you have enough wood, get a Blacksmith (for Fletching and other upgrades). When the gold is coming in, move to Archer production from your Ranges instead of Skirms.

Once you get enough units (around 10 Skirms, 2-3 Spears), start harrassing his wood, and if he's mining gold or stone, stop him from doing so.

Continue to make Vils, and research Wheelbarrow when you have enough food after all your other units (Scouts, Spears, Archers) have been queued up (always queue up two units). It's a tech that's insanely good for Farming. If wood permits, add one or two more Stables in Feudal. Castle when you have enough food as well (but always keep queueing up Vils and military units). Before you Castle, put your newly-made Vils on gold (you might need a new Mining Camp, even if it's on the same gold pile; put the Camp at the other side of it so that Vils don't have to bump or walk long distances back to the first Camp); you'll need lots of it in preparation for Castle. During the Feudal/Castle transition, try to build more Stables so that your total Stable count is four. Research cavalry techs at the Blacksmith (Scale Barding Armour, Forging).

Once you Castle, queue up Knights at each Stable; this is the most powerful Castle-age unit. Keep making Vils, and put new TCs on gold and stone (preferably gold and stone piles close to a forest). Boom up to 120 Vils; this game is about economy. Get more TCs to get your Vils made faster.

Other civs?

It's basically the same build order, but you have to build two Houses at the start (read my post about House Starts if you don't know what to do), and also add Houses when you're at 13/15 pop, 18/20 pop, and 23/25 pop (it changes when you're Spanish though, so read the post I just linked you). You'll need two Vils in Feudal constantly making Houses.

That's it!

That is the basic Flush. Hopefully you'll see why this strategy is the most effective one out there today.


STEVE
Age of Kings Heaven, Myll Clan

* Learn the Flush -- So you know how to play the game.
* Play Online -- So you can actually play the game.

[This message has been edited by Stevay (edited 07-13-2004 @ 04:42 PM).]

Replies:
posted 08-31-03 02:46 PM CT (US)     1 / 337  
Unfortunately, my link to my House Starts thread is not working properly (due to HG's new policy on redirecting links, and their screwing-up of their forum code).

To look for it, search for "swp" (that's my username) in author box in the Search, and look for "Swp's Guide to House Starts" in the thread listing.

[edit:]

If you're looking for recorded games of a Flush, you can find some at MFO or from the Myll clan site (in the forums), http://www.myllclan.com.


STEVE
Age of Kings Heaven, Myll Clan

* Learn the Flush -- So you know how to play the game.
* Play Online -- So you can actually play the game.

[This message has been edited by Stevay (edited 08-31-2003 @ 02:48 PM).]

posted 08-31-03 02:53 PM CT (US)     2 / 337  
Nice post

Really good info for most of the "I dont know what a flush is" people which seem to florish latly


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 08-31-03 03:44 PM CT (US)     3 / 337  
Nice post. This is going to remain sticky for about a week.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
posted 08-31-03 04:36 PM CT (US)     4 / 337  
Nice post.

Proud member of the One and Only
The best clan ever TOAO
ZN: TOAO_Boomer__
E-Mail: peterdavidsen@hotmail.com

posted 08-31-03 05:02 PM CT (US)     5 / 337  
Nice work Stevay.
posted 09-01-03 05:33 AM CT (US)     6 / 337  
Stevay has done a fine job on introducing the concepts of Flushing someone. He show the variety of flush units,
The spearmen/skirmisher cheap annoying harassment, the scout attacks, and other more potent forms like archers and man at arms.

However, I feel that his description of countering a flush is bordering the poverty side.
As an Imperial boomer, I am firmly against flushers and even Castle age attacks. Assuming equal economic play ability:
the key defend against a flusher is REALIZATION!
As long as you know what your doing then a flusher will be wasting his time, and even resources depending on what he sends.
On maps that can be walled off, you must PALISADE wall as early as possible in the Dark age.
I usaually do this around 5-8 min.
This will limit enemy villager/scout movements and make any offensive tower/barracks rushes impossible.
Then have villagers in thsi arrangement:
12 food
8 wood
6 stone
4 gold

This is bare minimum villager count (30) for Feudal and successive ages thereafter. Anyless will result in faster Feudal but very slow thereafter.

You should now feudal in around the 12min mark. A whole 2-3 min after the best of flushers. As soon as you hit your Feudal button, move at least 6 villagers to the respective borders, timing it so that they can start building walls and towers as soon as possible. You should also aim to have a barracks and at least 2 archery ranges up.
Train 4 squads of archers. and build towers. have the archers patrol behind the walls and ready to fire/garrison wherever the attacks come from.

DO not worry about skirmishers/scout, though hard to kill, they are unlikely to bring down your walls in next 10 minutes. Aim atatcks on enemy archers and standard infnatry first as they do the most dmg per second.

Now concentrate on getting into Castle Age with a strong economy!!! High Villager count and vast resources will pave the way for a better Castle age defence, and an Imperial strike force.


posted 09-01-03 05:53 AM CT (US)     7 / 337  
Weisi the Great of Stavka sorry but you don't have a clue what your talking about.
posted 09-01-03 08:21 AM CT (US)     8 / 337  
In some cases you MUST flush!!!! On Arabia you MUST flush. MUST! If you go on the zone and play arabia, and you choose Koreans, unless you are Halen you will lose! You will get flushed! TURTLEING DOES NOT WORK AGAINST A FLUSHER!!!! Period!
*prepares to be flamed*

Penguin
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posted 09-01-03 09:06 AM CT (US)     9 / 337  

Quote:

*prepares to be flamed*

No, you're right...

posted 09-01-03 09:50 AM CT (US)     10 / 337  
delete weisis post, funny but totally worng
posted 09-01-03 09:58 AM CT (US)     11 / 337  
Good post. As I see it, the main logic is three-fold:
(a) The aim of the game is to build an effective military as quickly as possible and defeat your opponent. Feudal is the earliest you can do this, as a drush or douche is not really effective. A flusher's feudal-age military can be very effective as the best military your opponent can possibly have is an equivalent feudal-age military.
(b) Even if it just serves to harass and slow the enemy's economy, that is beneficial to you.
(c) You reach castle age with a powerful economy and the buildings and resources to build immediately a large force of knights.

I am interested in the following questions, though:
(1) Why is a 23 (Hun) vil flush better than a 24 vil or 22 vil flush?
(2) Are there any advantages to building a slightly smaller feudal army (e.g. no scouts) and going for a faster castle instead? Assuming you can keep the flush away from your vils, the first to reach castle age is the most likely to win in my experience.
(3) What variations should be made to the flush in a team game (e.g. 2v2)?

posted 09-01-03 10:41 AM CT (US)     12 / 337  
Good post, Stevay. Very helpful (for me also, since I haven't been much of a flusher).

^~-.___.-*^'"\___|||___/"'^*-.___.-~^
~=-._.-~* Brian Christie *~-._.-=~
*-.._,-~"\__ __/"~-,_..-*
/__\
posted 09-01-03 11:09 AM CT (US)     13 / 337  
Weisi the Great of Stavka:
Your totally wrong, the flusher will beat you. If you play bf maybe he wont beat you in feudal but he will beat you. Period.

Intimatum:

Quote:

I am interested in the following questions, though:
(1) Why is a 23 (Hun) vil flush better than a 24 vil or 22 vil flush?
(2) Are there any advantages to building a slightly smaller feudal army (e.g. no scouts) and going for a faster castle instead? Assuming you can keep the flush away from your vils, the first to reach castle age is the most likely to win in my experience.
(3) What variations should be made to the flush in a team game (e.g. 2v2)?

1. There is no "best" strategy
The reason I for one chose 24pop, is course then you will be in the middle. With a very good economy. Now lets look on it the most usual hun builds is 22pop,24pop or 25pop. 22pop is a "weak/poor" strategy BUT if a player get supriced by it he has lost by its pressure. 25pop is a build going more for economy so you will have a very strong economy and can make a huge army. 24pop is something inbetween, which has a powerful economy and is faster. This mean if someone feudal before you then you will win more this than 25pop. The point is that its easier to fend off earlier "feudals" with 24pop, with an economy almost as good as 25pop.

2. Yes and no, it all depends who you play. I for one tend to like late feudal attacks, and if you stop making army and go castle that attack can kill you. But if your lucky yes you can win on it. But as with everything its a risk you chose to take.

3. A 2v2 is almost the same as 1v1 course usally both players play theyr own 1v1 BUT here is the clue, if you can afford it help your ally. This can be accomplished by doubeling his player for alittle while etc. This is very importent if you castle before him. But remember dont forget your own enemy, if you kill him its 2v1... But if his ally kill yours its suddenly 1v2 so sometimes its a tough choice to deside what its best to do


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 09-01-03 12:31 PM CT (US)     14 / 337  
Would all these TOTALLY UNBIASED FLUSHERS care to explain why they won't beat me in Feudal, but will beat me ANYWAY. Because for the obvious reason that my superior economy in Castle and Imperial will loose???

I mean, i'm not talking about extreme maps here. Just as Arabia favours a flush, Black Forest doesn't, and Island games can't.

And if you can't flush me in Feudal, then It aint a FLUSH is it? I feel like i'm on another planet here??
Just how do you smash through even a palisade wall with a few skirmishers?!

The new patch adds +3 pierce armour to palisades ... u flushers have got to be kidding me.
By the time you have archers, i'll have more archers. You have pikemen, I have towers. You bring in more skirmishers and scouts... boooohoooo.... I garrison my archers.
And don't tell me you don't build ANY walls and towers.

How do you defend against quick Castle age counter attacks?

ummmmmm.. uhh... "i build walls too duh..."
oh it's alright for you to build walls isn't it?
because you're a flusher... and building walls thus means you're not turtling... Jesus this soooo comical.

[This message has been edited by Weisi the Great of Stavka (edited 09-01-2003 @ 01:41 PM).]

posted 09-01-03 12:45 PM CT (US)     15 / 337  
weisi.. i know how you feel..

What Light?! - I'm In The Dark Here!
posted 09-01-03 12:54 PM CT (US)     16 / 337  
Weisi the Great of Stavka:
Go to my website and you can see me defending against different fast castle strategies without walling.

How would the flusher win ? Course you waste vill seconds. He will have better economy than you. Economy = win. As easy as that.


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 09-01-03 01:08 PM CT (US)     17 / 337  
Ok Weisi the Great of Stavka what is your Zone Name? Mine is TOAO_LargeBike_, I will play you and flush and you can attemp your defensive thingy and I will beat you.
posted 09-01-03 01:32 PM CT (US)     18 / 337  
Hellmondtrooper: glad you agree.
Myll_Slaughter: villager seconds?? hardly! building Palisades costs as much as collecting 50 resources per good length. Enough to build your ONE skirmisher.

You need time to build what? 2 barracks, 2 archery ranges, and 2 stables? You probably want more, + blacksmith + more houses for tempory cheap army.

FLUSHING is about killing or making my villagers not gather resources.
If I have more villagers, behind walls, how are you going to get a better economy??????
Admittedly building walls+towers take time. But the extra 6-9 villagers from Dark age soooo makes up for it!

Evil_Viking: you are straight out of a comic book man. "I will beat U" Muhahahahhahahha.... nice


posted 09-01-03 01:38 PM CT (US)     19 / 337  
Nice post, Stevay! I've always had problems knowing exactly what to do after the 2nd boar is gone -- usually in the games I've seen though, there are still a few sheep left after both boar are gone, and *sometimes* deer are conveniently located.

I think you went a little too far against towers in your effort to make a good point, though...a tower by the lumbercamp[s] can be essential sometimes, as a few vils can garrison inside while a few more fight the scouts. This is better than the vils running away or all of them having to stop chopping in order to fight. This seems to be a very common tactic in high-level games.

Also, the Aztecs get free Loom.

Newbies should know that they can assign their basic six TC sheep eaters to a group to facilitate force-dumping w/o risking "mouse-slips". I didn't know about that "W" shortcut, will try it.


"No matter how many tears one may shed, one always ends by blowing one's nose" -- Heine
posted 09-01-03 01:49 PM CT (US)     20 / 337  

Quote:

I think you went a little too far against towers in your effort to make a good point, though...a tower by the lumbercamp can be essential sometimes, as a few vils can garrison inside while a few more fight the scouts. This is better than the vils running away or all of them having to stop chopping in order to fight. This seems to be a very common tactic in high-level games.

I would much prefer keeping my 200 stone for Castle. If you're having trouble with Scouts, set some Spears on Patrol near your wood.

Quote:

Also, the Aztecs get free Loom.

Oops, thanks.

Added.


STEVE
Age of Kings Heaven, Myll Clan

* Learn the Flush -- So you know how to play the game.
* Play Online -- So you can actually play the game.
posted 09-01-03 04:21 PM CT (US)     21 / 337  
Palisades buy you 2 minutes of peace at best, until they are torn down or the enemy finds another way around. I seldom use that time wisely. It seems to work better to make another lumbercamp far away from the TC so that the flusher has trouble finding it. And a mill with 6 vills farming in a remote location has enabled me to fight back effectively, as the flusher is only harassing half my vills. Hopefully, I'll be in castle and able to build more tc's before the enemy finds those.

BTW, great guide, Stevay.

[This message has been edited by throwhimtothefl (edited 09-01-2003 @ 04:23 PM).]

posted 09-01-03 04:52 PM CT (US)     22 / 337  

Quote:

It seems to work better to make another lumbercamp far away from the TC so that the flusher has trouble finding it. And a mill with 6 vills farming in a remote location has enabled me to fight back effectively, as the flusher is only harassing half my vills. Hopefully, I'll be in castle and able to build more tc's before the enemy finds those.

Those could be dead vils unless you have a *gasp* tower near by, because you can't count on the enemy just not finding them. I think the first 10 farms --at least -- should be around the TC so the vils can be garrisoned. If possible I'd build the lumber camps near each other, as it makes the vils safer (safety in numbers, less towers necessary and/or less places for spears to patrol if you just don't like towers) and there is less prophylactic palisading to be done.

But I'm just a brook (bad rook) -- anybody having doubts should download games by Halen, Chris, Arch_Koven, Schmeker or any other top players -- watch where they put their guys and how they use towers. Don't follow them slavishly but give the games a look...


"No matter how many tears one may shed, one always ends by blowing one's nose" -- Heine

[This message has been edited by Tony Sillars (edited 09-02-2003 @ 10:11 AM).]

posted 09-01-03 05:06 PM CT (US)     23 / 337  

Quote:

Myll_Slaughter: villager seconds?? hardly! building Palisades costs as much as collecting 50 resources per good length. Enough to build your ONE skirmisher.

You failed to include walking time, gather time, and build time.

50 wood costs around 130+ vill seconds of wood cutting to gather 50 wood in the Dark Age (depending on bumpage, as Stevay's post points out).

You're also going to waste one wood vill's time by taking him off wood, walking him all the way around your town, while stopping after every step to waste a few more of his seconds to build a palisade. Let's say that this action takes around three minutes.

So 130 seconds + 180 seconds means that Slaghter has 5 minutes and 10 seconds of more villager work just for wood gathering than you do. That's about the equivalent of being able to buy 2 more farms, or enough wood to buy 4+ skirmishers than you would be able to. Understand now?

posted 09-02-03 04:55 AM CT (US)     24 / 337  
True, villagers seconds are no doubt wasted, but remember that I am going into the Feudal age later than you with more villagers, and I will be considering a MUCH smaller military force than you.

throwhimtothefl: i am sceptical about this far away lumber camp. unless you're Teutons, and even then, you'll ned 2+ towers for your lumberjacks. If I don't raid them, your towers are pretty wasted in teh corner of a map. And it'll take ages for your to get there if it's a decent place. So bit of a dilemma, and break even at the best of cases.

I still think, sacrificing early non-crucial resources in the dark age on a palisades to block the enemy off is effective against FLUSHes.


posted 09-02-03 05:31 AM CT (US)     25 / 337  

Quoted from swp:

When the Boar is chasing your Vil back to your TC, garrison your lurer, and get all the Vils on Sheep shooting the crap out of that Boar.

I was literarlly laughing out loud at that for some reason.

btw. you might want to add there that you should drop sheep eaters food off than attack boar just for some that don't know and lose their food.


TOAO_FunkyGus
TOAO Clan
Silly God...stop editting my post or else I'll pwn you!

[This message has been edited by God (edited 04-15-2004 @ 07:24 AM).]

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