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Topic Subject: Lord louis ii's siege guide
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posted 02-18-07 07:09 AM CT (US)   
Let's face it: you can't always defeat the enemy in one charge. Sooner or later you will have too lay siege. Aagainst a computer enemy, siging is child's play. So this guide is designed assuming that you are playing humans.

ATTACKERS

PART 1

SIEGE WEAPONS

Battering Rams: Battering rams have poor defence against cavalry and infantry, so keep some knights and pikemen around them while they do their dirty work. It will take several normal towers to even scratch a ram, so most of the time, all you have to worry vabout is enemy counter- attacks. However, if the opposition's city is defended by bombard towers, rams will take large amounts of cannon fire, but can handle the worst of it, drawing fire away from your shock troops.

Scorpians: Due to range similar to towers, these are of little use in a full on attack. They are however, quite good at defending trebuchets, and are pretty cheap to make. Scorpians do have an excellent use against AI though, as until the AI army reaches its target, it will not do anything else. A couple of of scorpian bolts in the back will soften up any unit, and works wonders of knights. There's nothing more satifing than turn an enemy regiment into a armoured kebab.

Onagers: Siege Onagers are beautiful in a siege. 90% of the time, part of the besieged player's walls wil have have a hole filled up with wood. Siege onagers can cut through the wood, often expose a blind spot were the enemy has just some villagers or a lumber camp. If you are trying the resource drain tactic (see later) siege onagers are excellent for taking down forests near the enemy base. All onagers are fantastic at taking down normal towers, but one hit from a bombard towers will destroy an onager.

Trebuchets: Trebuchets are the pick of the siege weapons able to attack from far out of enemy range. Trebuchet's awesome attack however in nullified by the time it take to pack one up, and there surcepibility to attacks. The remedeys are many: build a paliside (or stone) wall around the trebuchets. This will give them cheap, decent protection against enemy infantry and cavalry, though you will still need some knights and scorpians to fend of archers or formidable counter-attackers. You can also build a couple of bombard towers next to the trebuchets to crush hopeful onagers.

Bombard Cannons: A relatively fast moving, wonderfully long-ranged unit with a high attack. This works very much like a walking bombard tower, or cannon galleon, and is as good on the attack as it is at defending. It takes a bit of time between shots, so choose your targets wisely. Bombard cannon have a minumum range, and are very vunreble to enemy cavalry, so keep them protected by pikemen and archers. Using a box formation is also a good tactic.

A final warning with siege weapons: The mongols are an absolute terror to siege weapons. The mangudai have an attack bonus against them, and will hit and run destroy your precious trebuchets before they've even unpacked. To stop this: 1) Use the resource drain (see later)so the enemy cannot creat any more or 2) surround the trebuchets with skirmishers, to fend off pesky cavalry.

ONCE YOU GET INSIDE

Ah, the ancient skill of razing when you get inside an enemy city, it's every man for himself: you will have to pick your fights and stick with them, fight of they enemy survivors (and his allies probrably) and secure foothold after foothold: and who is the best at fighting this crazy battle? Villagers. burst though the enemy troops with knight and champions, then build towers to secure areas. In a city with no owner, and bombard cannon can pay far over its price, taking out buildings and troops.

ADVANCED TACTICS

Resourse Drain: In AOE II, resourses are of utmost importance. Without wood, the enemy cannot rebuild military buildings or houses. Without wood, they cannot plug gaps in their walls or replace towers. Without food or gold, they will be unable to creat army and mount a tactical defence.

Stopping the flow of wood: Use siege onagers to crush woods near the enemmy's base. Build towers near to their lumber camps, and kill their villagers.

Stopping the flow of food: Use your soldiers to kill boar and deer and bring sheep back to your city. Normally the enemy will rely a lot on farms, so cutting off the wood flow will stop him rebuilding these farms.

Stopping the gold flow: Build towers next to gold mines, kill trade cogs, carts and markets. Steal relics from monastries.

Stopping the flow of stone: Mine it all yourself and kill villlagers to stone the enemy from using theirs!

COMING SOON: DEFENDER GUIDE!

PLEASE POST YOUR COMMENTS AND DO NOT FLAME. iF YOU HAVE TACTICAL ADVICE PLEASE POST IT AND IF IT IS GOOD I WILL PUT IT UP. PLEASE ONLY SUBMIT ADVICE FOR ATTACKERS UNTIL DEFENCE IS FINISHED.


'Mercy is for the weak.'-Lord Louis I

[This message has been edited by Lord Louis II (edited 02-19-2007 @ 03:08 PM).]

Replies:
posted 02-19-07 00:26 AM CT (US)     1 / 39  
bombard towers do 120 attack. battering rams have 180 pierce armor. Therefore, bombard towers cannot kill a battering ram in a couple hits, it takes 175 hits, which is why rams are great vs bombard towers since they fire even slower than regular towers.

Let's settle this once and for all...My unforgivable past!
posted 02-19-07 00:45 AM CT (US)     2 / 39  
I think you underestermate the power of scorps. IMHO They are just fantastic. The shot deals damage to anyone it hits meaning that if you attack the units in the back row, everyone it goes through to get to the back row gets hit.
Also I wouldn't use so many bombard towers, there expensive and very very slow. 95% of the time they miss. The only thing they can seem to hit are rams, but well Seigfreid has already explained this.
Though you do have good points with the resources and cutting off the enemies resources. Though I wouldn't wait till I get some mangonels or ongars to attack his villagers. I would attack them asap, in Feudal or even dark age with scouts or man-at-arms.

The Wall

coming soon

[This message has been edited by Fattybryce (edited 02-19-2007 @ 01:21 PM).]

posted 02-19-07 06:50 AM CT (US)     3 / 39  
Bombard cannons are amazing if you have an onager-loving opponent, and also make great anti-trebuchets. They suck for taking down buildings though; they're too weak. Although, if you have a fast-moving army bombards are the best choice.

BTW Siegried was talking about Bombard Towers.

[This message has been edited by Saint Mungo (edited 02-19-2007 @ 06:52 AM).]

posted 02-19-07 01:20 PM CT (US)     4 / 39  
Ohhhh thought he was talking about the towers. Yeah the cannons do kick serious butt. There fast moving and can which means they can keep up with most units and can do serious damage.
And I ment towers not cannons, bit of a typo. Sorry.

The Wall

coming soon
posted 02-20-07 03:29 AM CT (US)     5 / 39  
I wonder when Lb's going to show up...

.\/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\ingjianma/
|____
Proud Member of TWH since 2007 and AoKH since 2004
Seleucid AAR|Sarmatian AAR | Spain AAR
posted 02-20-07 06:15 AM CT (US)     6 / 39  
good job i liked it

sports,games,-the best things in this life
posted 02-20-07 09:59 AM CT (US)     7 / 39  
@topic:
A wise man once said,
"si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
posted 02-20-07 03:24 PM CT (US)     8 / 39  

Quote:

I wonder when Lb's going to show up...

*goes to bomb shelter*

posted 02-20-07 11:47 PM CT (US)     9 / 39  
I don't think the bomb shelter is necessary. Just a flame-proof suit will be sufficient.

.\/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\ingjianma/
|____
Proud Member of TWH since 2007 and AoKH since 2004
Seleucid AAR|Sarmatian AAR | Spain AAR
posted 02-24-07 11:44 AM CT (US)     10 / 39  
Changes made.

'Mercy is for the weak.'-Lord Louis I
posted 02-24-07 10:47 PM CT (US)     11 / 39  
Nice Guide, some of the stuff is pretty useful.
posted 02-25-07 01:05 AM CT (US)     12 / 39  
RE: Sigfreid's bombard tower comment
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but bombard towers don't do piercing damage. At least in my game, a ram is destroyed by one or two direct hits from a cannon or trebuchet.
posted 02-25-07 05:13 AM CT (US)     13 / 39  
They do, but i think it was different in older versions then 1.0c.
posted 02-25-07 07:35 AM CT (US)     14 / 39  
Haha. Let them have fun. The guy made an effort to write it, and if we give thumbs up and he's happy, it's noone's loss.

It's not like the place is breaking down under extensive visitor flow...

posted 02-26-07 08:56 AM CT (US)     15 / 39  
The problem is that most of his advice (I wouldn't go as far as say they are wrong) aren't applicable in serious RM games between real players... And he specifically said that this guide is for "playing humans", so...

I especially found this hilarious:

Quoted from Lord Louis II:

2) surround the trebuchets with skirmishers, to fend off pesky cavalry.


.\/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\ingjianma/
|____
Proud Member of TWH since 2007 and AoKH since 2004
Seleucid AAR|Sarmatian AAR | Spain AAR
posted 02-27-07 12:42 PM CT (US)     16 / 39  
LOL it's not like anyone's going to use it anyway... If a 4-year-old kid draws you a picture, will you go flaming about all the mistakes? No, a sane person is going to pat the lass on the head and start explaining how wonderful it is, even if it looks like someone has eaten various paints with his breakfast and then vomited on the paper.

[This message has been edited by Vantek (edited 02-27-2007 @ 12:48 PM).]

posted 02-27-07 08:59 PM CT (US)     17 / 39  
Vantek.

Its different. As you can clearly see, Lord Louis wrote a guide, not a comment. And writers of guides are expected to have a good level of expertise and experiance in their area; and as Louis "obviously" doesn't have the know how- he shouldn't make a guide. Simple eh.

You don't pet the head of a four year old whos trying to teach you how to draw in a mistaken way, and thus you certainly shouldn't pat the head of a self proclaimed lord who's attempting to teach others a stupid way of playing Aok.

posted 02-28-07 05:52 AM CT (US)     18 / 39  
I agree with jerkwad on this

Quoted from Vantek:

LOL it's not like anyone's going to use it anyway... If a 4-year-old kid draws you a picture, will you go flaming about all the mistakes?


So what you're implying is that Louis is a 4 year old, or his ability to play AoK is equivalent to a 4-year-old's drawing ability?

Quoted from Vantek:

No, a sane person is going to pat the lass on the head and start explaining how wonderful it is, even if it looks like someone has eaten various paints with his breakfast and then vomited on the paper.


You can't make a comparison between that and playing AoK. Different people have different kinds of appreciation for art. You think that it looks like vomit, another person might think it's a great abstract drawing. You can argue that different people have different ways of playing AoK, but unlike art, in which there is no ultimate right or wrong, good or bad (I still think Picasso's works look gross ), you will never win against a player of the same level flushing with a villie rush. If they enjoy playing in their own way, and have more fun that way, that's fine, but they really shouldn't be giving advice about their own (mostly incorrect) method to a general populace of people, especially since he's insisting that this is a guide for "playing humans". If he didn't say so, I would have just assumed it was for against computers, and wouldn't have said anything, since just about anything works vs. the AI.

Quoted from Vantek:

Haha. Let them have fun. The guy made an effort to write it, and if we give thumbs up and he's happy, it's noone's loss.


No one's loss? IMO it's the whole community's loss that incorrect info is posted in a guide. Sure, you and I know it's a joke, but what about the newer players? We who know something about playing have a responsibility to give the newer people good and, most essentially, correct advice. Or haven't you seen the people posting in this thread claimiing the guide "useful"?

Note: What I wrote above was not meant to attack you as a person, but just to point out some things you posted wrongly. So no offence. After all, I'm just trying to make G&SD a better place. I don't think you were around back when AoKH was at its best, but I was...


.\/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\ingjianma/
|____
Proud Member of TWH since 2007 and AoKH since 2004
Seleucid AAR|Sarmatian AAR | Spain AAR
posted 03-01-07 11:42 AM CT (US)     19 / 39  
I guess I just meant to point out (again) that flaming isn't productive, not in a half-dead forum like this. It can be a great method of preventing a good active forum from being covered in piles and piles of crap, but AoKH doesn't even have enough activity for that to happen. When was the last time you saw a good strategy being posted, or even an old one discussed? When was the last forum party?

Virtually any sort of activity is beneficial for the forum, because without activity, there won't be a forum at all. And this guy made an effort and had some really funny ideas. I didn't really mean to say that you should say it's all very good, but then correct the mistakes or not post at all. Popping up just to say it's stupid doesn't help anyone.

I don't quite know why I got so wound up though. People were being surprisingly nice. Maybe I intended to give a pre-emptive strike to flaming. Now turns out I'm the worst flamer in the thread, comparing the author to a 4-year-old :P

EDIT: To put it short, yeah I don't know why I started ranting. Sorry, I was being quite ludicrous.

Quote:

I still think Picasso's works look gross


Well I wouldn't say gross, but yeah, it's utter crap for me too .

[This message has been edited by Vantek (edited 03-01-2007 @ 11:53 AM).]

posted 03-01-07 04:38 PM CT (US)     20 / 39  
Vantek:

I hosted the last forum party 15th June last year Which was a bomb may I add

I am also afraid that I have to disagree with you on that "Virtually any sort of activity is beneficial for the forum", newbies believing that they are gods gift to this game is the reason most of the knowlegable players has stopped posting here.

It is very annoying to post something you know is 100% correct and valid, only to have x number of self proclamed single player experts argue on that you are wrong.

Even if I have not played the game "activly" since 2001, I am almost certain that I can beat almost every player visiting aokh in a 1v1 easily, even in my current state of not touching the game since last forum party.

The same goes also to the other players who has stopped posting, they were better than 99% of the other people visiting the forums and still 80% of the forum members did not believe what they said were true...

So my belief is that its better with less posts, which is accurate and true. Than to have every newbie post his ultimate expert strategy.

The only thing newbies posting strategies lead to is other newbies using them and believing the author really are a expert :P Then when someone who knows the game comes in and trys to correct the mess, they all "gang" up on the guy explaining why hes not correct and a "loser".

As you all know I am usally a calm guy, but at times I feel like purging aokh for newbies. Remember what happened in the DSOD mess, you dont mess with me or my friends


Quote:
You will never learn what I am thinking.
And those who boast most loudly that they know my thought, to such people I lie even more.
Adolf Hitler (August 1938)

Check out The Myll Clans Homepage.

posted 03-02-07 07:57 AM CT (US)     21 / 39  

Quote:

Without wood, they cannot plug gaps in their walls or replace towers.

I think you mean stone.

Nice guide by the way, I rarely ever strategise my use of siege; preferring to plop down a couple of trebs when needed.

posted 03-02-07 11:40 AM CT (US)     22 / 39  
killing villagers to drain resources is an "advanced tactic"?

I always thought that it was so commonplace, if you didn't do that to someone they'd do it right back at you.

but, maybe that's just me

[This message has been edited by General_Zavier (edited 03-02-2007 @ 06:16 PM).]

posted 03-02-07 07:45 PM CT (US)     23 / 39  
"they do, but i think it was different in older versions then 1.0c."
------------------------------------------------------------


i don`t know how this was meant, but bombard towers do piercing damage to rams SINCE 1.0c

BEFORE 1.0c they did melee damage

[This message has been edited by Unicorn55 (edited 03-02-2007 @ 07:46 PM).]

posted 03-03-07 08:02 AM CT (US)     24 / 39  

Quoted from Myll_Slaghter:

As you all know I am usally a calm guy, but at times I feel like purging aokh for newbies. Remember what happened in the DSOD mess, you dont mess with me or my friends


What exactly was that mess? IIRC it was quite a bit before I joined AoKH

.\/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\ingjianma/
|____
Proud Member of TWH since 2007 and AoKH since 2004
Seleucid AAR|Sarmatian AAR | Spain AAR

[This message has been edited by xingjianma (edited 03-03-2007 @ 08:04 AM).]

posted 03-03-07 09:43 AM CT (US)     25 / 39  

whatever it was, now he is living in the past and dreamin of old days glory.

the way the game is played has developed since he stopped playing in 2001, and if he would not tell everybody no one would know about him -

more interesting would it be to know which tournaments did he win and which players he played against (and won occasionally) before he let "his" clan die and his only pleasure turned to flame some noobs aokh-forum or bash them in a annual forum-party

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