_{First post reserved for future use.}

The use of AoKTS and GeniEd2 is allowed, with no limitations

Mistake, in my opinion. That's already the rule with the CSC, the attraction of this contest was that it was "old school".

I will probably still enter though.

Confront zyx about that one.

What's wrong with AoKTS and GeniED? I understand that Reneissance isn't allowed, but those...

Meh, to each his own imo. I'm an old school designer... I dont even like using map copy tricks tbh. But that's just me. If someone wants to use those programs I dont think they gain an unfair advantage.

Basically all TS and Genied give you is the ability to stuff the in-game editor prohibits; essentially to break laws of physics. Other than eliminating beaches and ugly examples of unwanted terrain mixing, it shouldn't have any real influence on your score, but I suppose one could possibly use TS to accomplish absurd map designs to steal a category from the "old-schoolers."

Cropping your image is allowed, but any other photoshop / paint edits are not allowed. This includes the cropping of the top toolbar and the unit selection / minimap bar at the bottom

So, no text below the shots?

Quoted from Quaazi:

What's wrong with AoKTS and GeniED? I understand that Reneissance isn't allowed, but those...

The use of AoKTS and GeniEd2 is allowed, with no limitations.

Ummm... Nothing? It's allowed. You're able to use it in this competition.

Quoted from Basse:

So, no text below the shots?

Rules edited, my fault.

I'm an old school designer... I dont even like using map copy tricks tbh. But that's just me.

Ditto.

Rules edited, my fault.

*sigh of relief* Phew.

I dont even like using map copy tricks tbh.

That makes no sense. Map copying is a feature included in the editor.

Just a thought, but if the rioting between the "Ahh mods, oh noes" group and us far cooler hackers is an issue here, you could make all the categories vanilla only, with 2 extra categories:

1. Dat edited shots
2. All mods allowed shots

Keeps everyone happy.

I don't see the point in doing that. The only ban is on modpacks which basically is a form of picture editing, considering you can put ANYTHING in a modpack. Besides, if old school designers have something against using advanced techniques, they can just not use them. Who ever said that we would give more points to the screenshot that uses new techniques?

Edit: I can now confirm that Scud will be the second screenshot judge. He just returned my email saying he'd be happy to take up the role.

[This message has been edited by Thunder77 (edited 09-20-2008 @ 02:09 PM).]

That makes no sense. Map copying is a feature included in the editor.

Map copy is fine. Map copy tricks (to create "new" buildings) are no good to an old school purist. If it wasn't used in the AOE or AOC ES campaigns, I dont want to use it.

That's just my style though. I totally respect and enjoy what other people choose to do.

Ummm... Nothing? It's allowed. You're able to use it in this competition.

I can read, I was commenting Julius...

Besides, if old school designers have something against using advanced techniques, they can just not use them. Who ever said that we would give more points to the screenshot that uses new techniques?

Generally, allowing advanced techniques gives an advantage to those that use them. Novelty value has an instant impact and even if you judges can ignore that, the voting majority usually don't. Look at the CSC, it's rare indeed when a data edited entry goes up against one that isn't, and loses.

If it were up to me, I'd allow Renaissance, AoKTS and nothing else. That levels the playing field.

Look at the CSC, it's rare indeed when a data edited entry goes up against one that isn't, and loses.

I really don't find data editing all that fancy. You can make a piece of crap data edited entry and a spectacular old school screenshot and have the old school one win. Just because some designers choose not to use certain programs doesn't mean I should change the rules to make it so they gain an advantage over people who do use data editing. If it's their preference, it's their preference, and I'm leaving it at that.

I honestly disagree with you on this one Julius, and leave zyx's rules alone as I agree with them and they've been used consistantly.

[This message has been edited by Thunder77 (edited 09-20-2008 @ 04:06 PM).]

Map copy is fine. Map copy tricks (to create "new" buildings) are no good to an old school purist. If it wasn't used in the AOE or AOC ES campaigns, I dont want to use it.

That's just my style though. I totally respect and enjoy what other people choose to do.

100% agreement.

Just because some designers choose not to use certain programs doesn't mean I should change the rules to make it so they gain an advantage over people who do use data editing.

Thank you!

Perhaps I'm going to give this a shot.

Screenshots, eh?

Well, considering you can never actually prove that someone use AoKTS/GeniEd or just found a new discovery in the editor, banning either would be pointless, IMHO.

I really don't find data editing all that fancy. You can make a piece of crap data edited entry and a spectacular old school screenshot and have the old school one win. Just because some designers choose not to use certain programs doesn't mean I should change the rules to make it so they gain an advantage over people who do use data editing. If it's their preference, it's their preference, and I'm leaving it at that.

Thunder, are you really sure you want entries like this or this?

There IS something like having an advantage with .dat you know..

I support Matty's suggestion btw

[This message has been edited by Jatayu (edited 09-21-2008 @ 01:43 PM).]

I see nothing wrong with either, besides their potential low scores. The first one hurts my eyes (no offense to the author).

Thunder, are you really sure you want entries like this or this?

Does it matter what they submit? Why would I ban someone from being creative like that? Besides, that second screenshot was not good at all. Everything besides the wall was very bland and the wall itself wasn't that cool.

There IS something like having an advantage with .dat you know..

Yeah, but what is it besides new units? If you don't know wtf you're doing with them then it looks bad. That second screenshot you posted was a prime example.

I support Matty's suggestion btw

I don't agree with the suggestion. Creating categories like that wouldn't be relevant to the rest of them. There's no "dat edited forest shot" category. Besides, if there was a category like that, it would be tough to judge considering every possibility of objects that could be in the screenshot. City? Town? Forest? Snow? Funny? It would be a guessing game.

I'm sorry guys, but I don't think that any amount of arguing is going to change my position in this situation. Data editing isn't enough of an advantage to persuade me. Thank you, nI, for your support.

Oh hey guys, look at what is in the news. It's good to see you've revived the competition for this year and I look forward to helping you judge the entries.

Matty will now hotfoot it over to this thread to defend his work.

If you don't know wtf you're doing with them then it looks bad

But if you know what you're doing with them, being able to make anything you like to order is a huge advantage. You're hosting the competition though, so at the end of the day it's your choice. I think it's the wrong decision but there you go.

Well back in 2005, zyx had a catergory for "Best Use of GeniEd" - so include something similar this time around in 2008, a round for "Best Use of Data Editing" perhaps?

Of course, data editing would be allowed in all catergories, but in that round it would be the main point to be judged on, just like humour is the central part of the "Funniest" catergory.

[This message has been edited by Scud (edited 09-21-2008 @ 03:09 PM).]

Maybe this should be put under the Contests section?

I'll try to make a few shots, good luck to everyone!

I think that's a good idea, Scud. Since everyone is so ancy about it, I suppose I can make it a category to persuade all of the designers who data edit to put their screenshots that are heavily edited into one category (like the first one Jatayu posted) and just use it lightly in others.

Hopefully this will make everyone happy.

Well it never hurts to have a category for Genied.

Can't wait to see what people get out of this.

Thunder, are you really sure you want entries like this or this?

Funny enough that christmas shot didn't win for me, outside the novelty value the blue sky is rather ugly. After everyone finished freaking out and telling scud to DQ me, they ended up voting for a vanilla shot that was more attractive. In other words, I don't know how much of an advantage it is.

The other one wasn't entered, just an example of what can be done for a thread I posted a while back.

Quit pulling up my screenshots for criticism

Matty will now hotfoot it over to this thread to defend his work.

Indeed, my honor is at stake here

Anyway, my opinion on it is that DAT editing actually hurts the screenshot, everyone reacts negatively to it on most occasions.

Added to the right navbar; I'll put up a page for the competition tomorrow, and I'll also put some reminders on the front page when the contest is coming closer to the finish line (unless Mr. Alex Scudricks plans on doing that already, in which case, ty Scud ).

Scuddles, if the screenshots of olde still exist, you should upload those along with the CSC ones. These new ones can go into a "Screenshot Competition" gallery too.

[This message has been edited by Aro (edited 09-24-2008 @ 04:28 AM).]

unless Mr. Alex Scudricks plans on doing that already, in which case, ty Scud).

Way ahead of you there.

Scuddles, if the screenshots of olde still exist, you should upload those along with the CSC ones.

As I took over from zyx last year I do infact have all the entries (that were sent to me) on my computer (and uploaded aswell onto photobucket).

*kicks thread*

(to fix issues with merger)

Anyway, my opinion on it is that DAT editing actually hurts the screenshot, everyone reacts negatively to it on most occasions.

They're more cool than they are practical.

Kicking this because I have recieved zero entries.