Hi, Zyth23! Good to see that your start a topic for your project!

Well, this seems like quite an ambitious project. I see that the main focus of this is replacing(or adding) new unit graphics for campaigns. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to find help on this part, especially when it seems like you're trying to make a total reskin for all units. I have seen Jorgito made such achievement, but probably no one else yet. I can share several Roman units, but I'm too occupied with my own project to make any other, and I'm also making units for a SWGB project. So...I wish you good luck on finding help.

Other than unit graphics, is there anything else you plan to change in this project?

@Achesun

Yes, the main idea is to replace the graphics of the units, which I already tryied to pick "balanced" with the unit to represent.

Hm, I think some musics, sounds,and voice dialogue will be needed in a far far far futur.

And yes, it's a big project, but the idea is to do the units graphics able to be used in the "campaign" as in simple graphics replacement for small mods.

And sure, I loved your Triariis and other units, that's this units I'd like to have the .slp file to then include them into my packs, not asking you to create me all of this units (except if you want xD).
I'm able to do 2d image reworking, but not 3d models making.

I've already planned to "fake" some units by using some part of graphics already present in the AoE2 game or/and in the AoE1 game to create some "alpha" units.

Example : Taking the "Heavy Camel" shield to represent Roman "Scutum" shield with a tiny rework on that.
Or using helmet of the "Huskarl" to represent the Early Roman Helmet, etc.

I will attempt to reproduce units style from the TableTop games "Hail Caesar" and "Victrix" unit collection.

As it's my first project, I don't really know what I will need exept ideas, help for the graphic part, suggestion, historical help, etc. (And this answer is far too long)
Probably some help with the name of units, and idea for the factions I've not listed like the Tribes of Gaul, Tribes of Britania, etc.

Yes, I'll change the Building graphics as well, that's why I've made those choices about which civilisation goes in which faction, to be able to rework de building set themed with the Faction.

------------------------------
[03.April.2017 - Moved base main post here as Archive before rewriting main post]

## Base project ##

Roman Empire bring back to live in AoE2, with campaign, units, Caesar, etc.
I've always wanted to play real Romans in AoE2 since I tested the first mission of the Attila's Campaign.

And my goal changed into just a total conversion, mainly in graphics without modifying the real game settings, of the game to become a rebirth of the Antiquity period.

The thing I've always loved in AoE2 is the Historical Campaigns, and that's why my project is about Campaigns at first.

So this won't just stop with the Caesar campaign, or the title of this project would be totaly wrong. Nop, I'd like to do much, much, much more. Greeks, Egyptians, Hebrews, Persians, and other thing that will come with the futur.

But the difficulty is to have all this factions together, with the actual AoE2 possibilities, so I'm planning to prepare multiple "modpack" which will be used in campaigns, depending on that campaign.

Example : I'll put the Greeks Hoplites on the Eagle Warriors, but I'll also need the Eagle Warriors for Zulus (affricans) units for the Egyptian Army.
So the only way to do this easily, without breaking the entire game is to use multiple modpack.

Or if someone know how to store graphics for units to be able to have ONE TEXTURE per unit PER civilisation (different graphic for the SAME unit depending on the civ' you're playing) then we'll take that.

## Main Periods ##

- Tool Age (~4000 BC > ~3000 BC)
- Copper Age (~3000 BC > ~2000 BC)
- Bronze Age (~2000 BC > ~1000 BC)
- Iron Age (~1000 BC > ~500 AD)

- Tool Age -

This will probably cover the Ancient Egypt history, and also the birth of Babylon, and of course the Hebrew history with all that funny thing in the bible about the Sea openning (yay this campaign will be very fun)

- Copper Age -

I'm not really sure that it was a real "empire period", but the idea is mainly to have units on the Feudal Age with some Copper armor and shield, like the AoE1 Hoplite and the AoE1 Broad Swordman.

Here the campaigns will focus on the Greeks wars, olympic games (yeah sure, I'll do that XD), and all the thing we can place around that. And this will include some Naval Fight in the campaign, I have totaly NO idea about how we'll do that, but we Will for sure.
Greek campaign without Ship Fight isn't Greek campaign xP.

The New Egyptian Empire will also probably presented, and Carthage, and anything cool to reproduce in this game.
Probably also something on the birth of the city of Rome, with the Etruscan fights that forged the base of the epicest empire of the antique world.

- Bronze Age -

Here is the Birth of Rome Warmachine, and the "golden age" of the Greeks.
Alexander with the Macedonian Phalanx, conquering the World, etc.
Persian campaign with Darius and Xerxes also (yup, 300 spartan somewhere).
The Punic Wars, Rome vs Carthage and all the other factions that were in the Punics Wars.

- Iron Age -

Here will be mainly the Romans, on the different war they've made, but also if we find some good campaigns to create with the period, that's still possible.

---

I'll work a lot on the historical fights, dates, names etc, because I love that, it's possible that the thing I've juste written above is wrong and I'll correct that when the time will come.

## Main Factions ##

So here is my actual list of idea of "how to convert the actual AoE2 factions into the Faction I'll need" just with graphics modifications for the campaigns.
You'll see that actually my main conversion will make multiple civilisation to become "part of one of the faction" of the specific periods etc.
I've also already started to choose which unit will be converted into which and you'll understand my choice, I hope, after reading all of this =P

- Roman Empire -

> Legion (Italian)
> Praetorian (Goth)
> Centurion (Japanese)
> Tribun (Teuton)

> Velite Legion (Vietnamese)

> Cavalry I Legion (Magyar)
> Cavalry II Legion (Slav)
> Auxilia Cavalry Legion (Hun)

> Light Artillery Legion (Chinese)
> Siege Artillery Legion (Korean)

> Naval I Legion (Viking)
> Naval II Legion (Portugese)

- Egyptian Empire -

> Axeman Division (Celt)
> Shotel Division (Ethiopian)

> Archer Division (British)
> Axe-thrower Division (Frank)
> Sword-thrower Division (Malian)

> Chariot Division (Berber)

- Greek City -

> Athenian (Mayan)
> Spartan (Aztec)
> Macedonian (Inca)


- Other Factions -

> Carthage I (Khmer)
> Carthage II (Indian)

> Etruscan I (Malay)
> Etruscan II (Burmese)

> Hebrew (Spanish)
> Canaan (Persian)
> Hittite (Byzantin)
> Nabatean (Saracen)
> Philistin (Turk)

---

This list is not complete, it's really the start of the project, and can go really far.
And some of the "other" factions are just random name of faction that were in the area arround Israël during this part of the history, they will probably change.

## Factions Units ##

- Global Unit -

Tool Age : {Dark Age}
- Gladiator (Militia)
- Transport Bireme (Transport Ship)

Copper Age : {Feudal Age}
- Swordman I (Men-at-Arms)
- Hoplite I (Spearman)
- Javeliner I (Skirmisher)
- Bowman I (Archer)
- Trade Cart (Trade Cart)
- Lancer Cavalry I (Scout Cavalry)
- War Bireme (Galley)
- Fire Bireme (Fire Galley)
- Demolition Bireme (Demolition Raft)
- Trade Bireme (Trade Cog)


Bronze Age : {Castle Age}
- Swordman II (Long Swordman)
- Hoplite II (Pikeman)
- Javeliner II (Elite Skirmisher)
- Bowman II (Crossbowman)
- Priest (Monk)
- Bowman Cavalry (Cavalry Archer)
- Lancer Cavalry II (Light Cavalry)
- Heavy Cavalry I (Knight)
- Camel Rider I (Camel)
- Elephant Rider I (Battle Elephant)
- Ballista I (Scorpion)
- Catapult I (Mangonel)
- Battle Ram I (Ram)
- Siege Tower (Siege Tower)
- Demolition Man (Petard)
- War Trireme (War Galley)
- Fire Trireme (Fire Ship)
- Demolition Trireme (Demolition Ship)

Iron Age : {Imperial Age}
- Swordman III (Two-Handed Swordman)
- Swordman IV (Champion)
- Hoplite III (Halberdier)
- Bowman III (Arbalest)
- Field Catapult (Hand Cannoneer)
- Bowman Chariot (Heavy Cavalry Archer)
- Lancer Cavalry III (Hussar)
- Heavy Cavalry II (Cavalier)
- Heavy Cavalry III (Paladin)
- Camel Rider II (Heavy Camel)
- Elephant Rider II (Elite Battle Elephant)
- Ballista II (Heavy Scorpion)
- Giant Ballista (Trebuchet)
- Siege Catapult (Bombard)
- Battle Ram II (Capped Ram)
- Battle Ram III (Siege Ram)
- Catapult II (Onager)
- Catapult III (Siege Onager)
- War Quadrireme (Galleon)
- Fire Quadrireme (Fast Fire Ship)
- Demolition Quadrireme (Heavy Demolition Ship)
- Catapult Quadrireme I (Cannon Galleon)
- Catapult Quadrireme III (Elite Cannon Galleon)

- Roman Unit -

Bronze Age :
- Praetorian I (Samurai, Japanese)
- Centurion I (Huskarl, Goth)
- Tribun I (Teutonic Knight, Teuton)
- Roman Bowman I (Rattan Archer, Vietnamese)
- Field Scorpion I (Genoese Crossbowman, Italian)
- Repaeting Scorpion I (Chu Ko Nu, Chinese)
- Legionnary Lancer Cavalry I (Magyar Huszar, Magyar)
- Legionnary Heavy Cavalry I (Boyar, Slav)
- Carrobalista I (War Wagon, Korean)
- Scorpion Galley I (Longboat, Viking)
- Balista Galley I (Caravel, Portuguese)
- Catapult Galley I (Turtle Ship, Korean)

Iron Age :
- Legionnary (Elite Condotierro, Italian)
- Praetorian II (Elite Samurai, Japanese)
- Centurion II (Elite Huskarl, Goth)
- Tribun II (Elite Teutonic Knight, Teuton)
- Roman Bowman II (Elite Rattan Archer, Vietnamese)
- Javeliner III (Imperial Skirmisher, Vietnamese)
- Field Scorpion II (Elite Genoese Crossbowman, Italian)
- Repaeting Scorpion I (Elite Chu Ko Nu, Chinese)
- Legionnary Lancer Cavalry II (Elite Magyar Huszar, Magyar)
- Legionnary Heavy Cavalry II (Elite Boyar, Slav)
- Carrobalista II (Elite War Wagon, Korean)
- Scorpion Galley II (Elite Longboat, Viking)
- Balista Galley II (Elite Caravel, Portuguese)
- Catapult Galley II (Elite Turtle Ship, Korean)

- Greek Unit -

Copper Age :
- Greek Hoplite I (Eagle Scout)
- Greek Trader (American Trade Cart)

Bronze Age :
- Greek Hoplite II (Eagle Warrior)
- Greek Priest (American Monk)
- Cretan Archer I (Plumed Archer, Mayan)
- Spartan Hoplite I (Jaguar Warrior, Aztec)
- Macedonian Phalanx I (Kamayuk, Inca)

Iron Age :
- Greek Hoplite III (Elite Eagle Warrior)
- Cretan Archer II (Elite Plumed Archer, Mayan)
- Spartan Hoplite II (Elite Jaguar Warrior, Aztec)
- Macedonian Phalanx II (Elite Kamayuk, Inca)

- Egyptian Unit -

- Other Unit -

Sorry for the incomplete list, but I'm too tired to continue for today, I'll write the other thing I'll have to share with you another day.

--

I'll need alot of Help for all of this, with creating the Graphics (Achesun I need your Roman units <3), Map making for the campaigns, etc.

I'm actually starting to do some little "graphic replacement mod" on the steam workshop, which made me tired today with the Archer on Chariot from AoE1 that I ported to AoE2. So I can easily take all the AoE1 stuff and convert it to AoE2 file, with time and patience, but I can do it.

I think the Data editing and scenario programming won't be a problem for me, as I'm Java programmer and I.T. Tech.

So, I'll rewrite the missing thing here as soon as possible.

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 04-03-2017 @ 03:35 AM).]

Tbh, I wonder how much interest this project will gather and it seems a lot of work for something which I think could be done on a much smaller scale. Honestly, the data editing is the easiest part, you're asking for a lot of graphics which I don't think that many people would have time for.

Besides that, Rome mods have been made since the dawn of Age of Empires. In fact, most of the units from AOE1 have already been converted to AOK. You could probably finish this mod in a day just by downloading what's already in the blacksmith.

Check here or here. This is probably your best bet as a base.

Also, my only criticism on the mod itself would be the factions. It seems strange to break up each unit class like that into specific civs to play. How will you balance these?

[This message has been edited by Tatsuo (edited 02-23-2017 @ 04:10 AM).]

@Tatsuo

You're right it's a big project for something that could be done by other way, but if I posted my project here, on this epic mod forum, it's also to get ideas from the professionnal of AoE2 Modding.

I'm not excluding the possibility to do this with Data editing, but I've nevermade it so I'll have to learn.

I've also played with the Romes mods, which I loved, but there was always one thing missing => The Campaigns.

I'd like to offer many things that I've written in one single topic, better than creating 3000 topic and letting them sinking in the red sea like pharaoh's army.

You're also right, it's a lot of graphic, if no one have the time, I'll do it, I'll learn to do it, or I'll find another way, we'll see ^^.

About the Balancing, you've asked how I'll balance units etc...
My answer will be simple : "The Game is Already Balanced".

I've tryied to choose units that are already like the one I choosed to converted them to.
And also, my main goal is Campaign gameplay, which can include some stats modifications during Scenarios creation without modifying the real game data.

And you're again right, the Faction "breaking" is strange, but I'm sure it will become easier to understand when I'll have all the idea in my head with word to explain.

Well, if you only want to have some specific units to appear in your scenario/campaign, like the "Scythian Wild Woman" in the Attila's campaign, what don't you just add them as editor units so you don't need to replace graphics of the entire game?

For example, you want to have some Praetorian units in a scenario, you can find suitable slps for it, add it to the game, and use AGE to add a new unit called "Praetorian" using those graphics. you can then place them on maps when you're designing your campaign. If you want to be able to train them in game, a little bit of further data modding will enable that.

Unless what you want is a fully playable Roman civilization, which has maybe "Roman style units" rather than generic unit sets, then you'll have to make a total conversion.

That's basicly my first idea yes, making pack of .slp for each scenarios to have the correct unit on the screen.

It's possible that the "Total Conversion" title isn't the real title I needed, because it's mainly "graphical conversion", without real game mecanism changes or only during scenarios.

One other goal is to allow the "graphic pack" to be used in multiplayer with the regular game, without mod requirement, just for the look of the units.

For me, the actual game is already what I need to create my campaigns without editing data.

( @Achesun can you make a tiny mod with all your roman .slp, like for your japanese units ? (which are awesome as well, I checked them few minutes ago, your models are very nice) )

Well, I think your goal is something like Jorgito's unit reskin pack, right?

Indeed, you can have a graphic pack that changes only the look of the units: long swordsman that looks like a Roman warrior, huscarl that looks like a Praetorian...etc. The frame numbers of every unit will have to match the original unit's, though. For example, a champion has 50 frames in its attacking slp, if you replace it with a slp with like 40 frames, the unit will sometimes disappear, unless you change the frame numbers in the data file, witch would disable multiplayer games like you said.

By the way, you'll at least have to change the names of units, right? Otherwise you'll have a Greek Hoplite looking unit that is still called "Eagle warrior" in the game.

Finally, the "tiny mod" you requested...well, I believe you mean these units I posted in "Age of Italy II" thread, right?

To be honest, I have never finish them...there are several frames rendered, but never converted to slp files. I might find time to finish them someday, but currently I'm trying to finish the units for the Japanese unit pack and a SWGB project first.

Sounds like a fairly ambitious project, but there's a lot of similar modpacks out there that you might take a look at. In addition to the two mods Tatsuo mentioned, there's also Rome Returns, which has most if not all AoE graphics converted to AoE2 format.

Or if someone know how to store graphics for units to be able to have ONE TEXTURE per unit PER civilisation (different graphic for the SAME unit depending on the civ' you're playing) then we'll take that.

You need data editing for this, but it's fairly straightforward for most units. The exceptions are units with special abilities, such as monks, villagers, and trade carts.

EDIT: Fixed link

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 02-24-2017 @ 12:24 PM).]

@Achesun

Yes, Jigoto's unit pack are the mods that inspired me ^^.

I've already worked on frames number conversion yap, like the hoplite with 30 frames on the heavy pikeman that I've reworked to the pikeman 40 frames animations. It's not really difficult, just abit long, and I have time.

And about the roman unit, yes it's them, I could try to convert your frames to slp, just need to get them and then I can work on that.
Then you can focus on your project, and I can work with epic roman units, if you allow me to work on your units frame =P.


You're also right, I'll probably have to change unit names, but I'm sure I can find a way to trick in the basic campaign Scenarios. (Version 1 without data editing, and probably version 2 with data editing)

@Vardamir

The link for "Rome Returns" is broken, but I'll check that, and yes I've already taken a lot of the pack which made the conversion of units from AoE1 to AoE2 ^^.

And yes, it's an ambitious project, but it is to replay the stories of Ambitious Leader (Caesar, Alexander, Hannibal, etc)

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 02-24-2017 @ 03:47 AM).]

Well, there are still some animation to be rendered for most roman units to be complete. I'll do this when I can. If you are already designing your campaign just go ahead, don't wait for those units to be completed. They'll be ready before you finish the rest of this project, I think.

Or if you want to try to make a "copy-paste" unit blending the original AOK units, I can send you the unfinished frames so you can get addition materials to use.

I'm actually making some AoE1 unit reframing to be used on different unit, broad swordman on men-at-arm for example.

I'll start my work with "non textured units", and AoE1 textures for start.

If you send unfinished frames I can use them, like helmet / shield / spear / etc.
My main problem is that I don't know how to do 3d models, but I can easily edit image and copy/paste some part of models into existing model from other images. (as you can see with my work on Phalanx just under this =P)

---- [02-27-2017]

And here is a preview of the base work I'm doing arround Kamayuk to convert them into Macedonian Phalanx.

a) b) c) d) e) f)

a) Inca Kamayuk. [original]
b) Macedonian Phalanx WIP. [no plume on spear]
c) Macedonian Phalanx WIP. [aoe1 broad_swordman's shield]
d) Macedonian Phalanx WIP. [Gidajan's helmet reworked]
e) Macedonian Phalanx WIP. [blue line added on the "skirt"]
f) Macedonian Phalanx WIP. [aoe1 short_swordman's greaves]

It's fun to convert by myself, but the time spent in just 10 frames ... (5hours) ... and with bad greaves and not perfect helmet, and wrong material for the shield, and no armor, and too long skirt... This is frustrating x'D.

I will draw on paper what I need, and then I'll find someone to modelise that.

---- [03-02-2017]

And today it's Hastatii trying.

a) b) c) d) e) f)

a) Early Hastatii WIP homemade. [Spearman]
b) Early Hastatii WIP v2. [with Achesun shield copy/paste =D]
c) Early Hastatii WIP V3 A no shield. [until I'll have real shield]
d) Early Hastatii WIP V3 B no shield. [same as C but different angle]
e) Early Hastatii WIP V3 C no shield. [same as C but different angle]
f) Early Hastatii WIP V4. [no shield back and more roman helmet]

(That's why I need your shields frames Achesun, It's hard and limited to use your shield from the .png XD)

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 03-03-2017 @ 08:46 AM).]

These units looks really nice.

[This message has been edited by Tatsuo (edited 03-02-2017 @ 11:13 AM).]

Looks great! Well, send me an e-mail, I can send you the unfinished renders of the roman units.

[This message has been edited by Achesun (edited 03-03-2017 @ 03:03 AM).]

These are looking great!

Love these units! They fit in really well the original units, and have a nice AOE 1 vibe, great work!

the units look promising!

edit: zuth23 - why are you going so far in history - i would divide the bronze age - into early or late, and the iron age into early and late, why go to the neolithic - do you want to show us some early settlement logic or warfare? introduction of the horse or the sword?

[This message has been edited by DJeronimo (edited 03-03-2017 @ 03:47 PM).]

I think its an interesting choice to make the hoplite a global unit as it was only Greek, however they could be forced to serve another army after being conquered. I had a similar idea to create a mod, but it was never going to go beyond concept and was based on the Persian Wars. This is about all I had:

Sparta

Unique Unit: Spartan Hoplite

Civ Bonus: Upon researching final age, 25% faster farming.

Other units: Perioikoi hoplites, Perioikoi skirmishers, Perioikoi cavalry, helot skirmishers

Unique Technology: Lykourgoun Reform which would benefit units in attack and armour.

Persia

Unique Unit: Immortals

Civ bonus: Cheaper and faster produced archers

Other units: archers, cavalry, camels

Unique Technology: The Royal Road which increases cavalry speed and faster trade

This would also require an entire new navy containing triremes and whatever.

@DJeronimo

Why so far in history ? Because I love history.

I've replayed to AoE1 egyptian starting campaign, and discovered many informations about the early history of civilizations.

I've always wanted to see more detailed scenarios about the dawn of civilization, with the jewish bible as historical battle repport (there is a LOT of battle in the bible that could be bring to AoE2 with mods and campaigns)

The idea of the early Warfare is one of my goals, introduction of new weapons with the time (by changing the modpack to have guys with sword instead of axes for example)

You'll probably remember the early campaign of William Wallace, Genghis Khan, and Attila, with this little "rpg style" game. Like "bring me some sheep and I'll give you soldiers" or "bring me horse and you'll get infinite mangudai totaly OP against this *** persian elephant", etc.

And about the "copper age" this is because ... The AoE1 units like Hoplite and Broad Swordman are deffinitly NOT wearing Bronze stuff, the color IS Copper stuff.

-----------

@MrMew

The idea of globilizing the "hoplite" is because the romans started with the greek hoplite war style. And when I say "hoplite" it is a guy with a Shield and a Spear (not anti cavalry spear).
Without Data editing it's really difficulty for the balancing, as every European Units get massive bonus against Eagle Warriors. (Steel vs no-metal-armor xD)

I'll also aim for the Persian War, or I'll try to help other project with mine.
I've found an old mod with many Babylonian buildings, but it seems to be a dead project. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aokcgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=43822&f=0,0,0,0&st=0

And sure, the Immortals and other Persian units. Thanks for the name of Spartan units, always helpful to know the real name of the thing I need to search on google image.

And you're Right ! I'll need an entire new Navy =D, and I'm already working on grabing some graphics for the differents boats.
I'll make some "alpha" models using Turtule ship's Reams to add them to other boats for getting "faker galley" style.

You'll have to do some data editing to just change names using AGE.

Just a few notes on Spartans, Persians and Athenians

Spartans: Their army mainly consisted of Spartan Hoplites which had begun training since the age of 7. However the Spartans would bring the helots with them (serfs) as they were risking Sparta back home if they left them (helot revolts). Helots were sometimes used as light skirmishers and slingers, however they were sometimes used as hoplites, one particular occasion this occurred was when the Brasideans were trained.

Perioikoi were specific to sparta but were people throughtout Greece who weren't part of city states and known as 'dwellers around'. However those in the Spartan territory had to provide troops in the time of war and they could provide anything from skirmishers, hoplites to cavalry.

Persians were well known for their archers during the Persian war and they also had a whicker shield to hide behind for enemy arrow fire.

After Darius' invasion, Themistokles of Athens argued to spend the silver they had recently found on a new navy building something like 130 new triremes (number needs to be checked). After this Athens started to become a sea power, which very much became prominent after the Battle of Mycale and before the Peloponnesian War, in which it was used. This meant they had very few infantry units at all because they relied on their empire run by a navy which was rowed by the thetes (lowest class, akin to plebeians and vulgus).

Also I can't remember exactly where I found it but apparently Greeks were rubbish archers because they drew only to the chest and the Romans did the same until one general decided to adopt the way of the parthians.

And after three days of image reworking on Gimp...

Militia converted into Rorarii.

Thanks a lot to Achesun for his units frames, here is the result :

a) b) c) d) e)

Rome is rising once again.

Sidenote :
- As you can see, the walking animation is "abit" tricky, I had to duplicate some existing frame to get the "correct number of frames", couldn't do better than that.
- Also, there was no decaying (death) animation, so I just took the last dying frame because it's enought for me now.

@Zyth23 Looks nice!

mrmew, what is the way of the parthians?

Unit looks nice good job.

what is the way of the parthians?

The normal way. Pulling back to the cheek.

thanks mrmew. you are right.
zyth - i see you focus on the late iron age why keep the era structure with copper age - an age in which carthage, rome, greece did not exist. there were other factions with a different warfare, maybe focused on primitive shieldwall formations and warchariots, and so on...these thigs could be the target for a different expansion, i would personally suggest you should stick to your plan - the late iron age and let us experience something nice about it.

@DJeronimo

I've not ended the writing of the main thread.

But basically I'd like to make :
- Ancient Egypt Era (and other factions in this period)
- Greek Era (Alexander, Persian, Darius, etc)
- Roman Era (early Rome, middle Rome, late Rome)

It will not be possible to do ALL of this in one pack yes, that's why I've planed to do multiple pack.

I don't know much thing about the early Warfare except the Egyptian, but I'd like to reach some Mods with alot of historical units, campaigns, in different periods and civilisations.

For example, instead of playing Attila... The same "campaign" on the eyes of Flavius Aetius, the General which faced the Huns.

Actually I focus on the thing I know best, logical choice, but then we'll see where the wind leads us.

--------

I'm facing a "problem".

Achesun made many units :
- Rorarii (light spear, no armor, wood shield)
- Hastatii lvl 1 (sword, no armor, wood shield)
- Principles lvl 1 (sword, light bronze armor, wood shield)
- Triarii lvl 1 (heavy spear, heavy bronze armor, bronze shield)
- Hastatii lvl 2 (sword, light armor, wood shield)
- Principles lvl 2 (sword, chainmail + light armor, wood shield)
- Triarii lvl 2 (heavy spear, chainmail, wood shield)

To reproduce the Roman army tactics, I need some Hastatii on first line, some Principles on second line, and some Triarii on third line.
Problem is that we have only ONE single sword unit in every age of the game.

That's a really problem I faced in every way to thinkg about what graphic to give to each unit in the game actually... And I'm always getting the same annoying answer :

The game doesn't have enought variety of units...

No axemen, no infantry lancer, no catapult with single projectil, no cavalry lancer, no ...
That's always my problem in every game... The lack of possiblities.

Why couldn't I equip my spear guy with shield and different style of spear ?
Why couldn't I say to my swordmen to be 50% men-at-arms and 50% long swordman ?

I don't want to start with a mod that totaly change the game with adding 300 units and 300 menues, but I'd like to "simulate" this "variety" that I feel missing, and this with Scenarios.

BUT !

As the only "specificity" of a civilisation is the Tech Tree and Castle Age unique units...
That will be hardcore to even produce a mod with "variety" of graphic style from the Roman Legions AND their opponents.
Unless I go for the Civil War between romans legions... This will be strange that even the enemies use Romans Legionnaries.

I know there is "three different" Long Swordman, the regular, the Eastern and the Northern, that's cool...
BUT why isn't there ... Eastern Spearman, Eastern Archer, Eastern Cavalry, Northern Spearman, Northern Archer, Northern Cavalry ?

I'm not really speaking about real "tactical differences", just different units, models, graphics, voices... So without Data editing directly at the start ...

Does anyone have an Idead of how to keep my roman legion variety (meaning 3 king of basic soldiers, Hastatii, Principles, Triarii) WITHOUT having roman legion graphics on the "global units" (which I wanted to regraphic in "global version", that would not be strange to be used by other factions) ?

Maybe explaining this another way will help :
- How to get Faction special graphics BEFORE castle age ?

In the first post I've mentionned many civilizations converted into single faction, like romans in many civs, because I thought it would be the best way to have Romans units AND variety for every other factions.

I've changed my mind when I saw that the frames requirement of many unique units are ... Too different from regulars units and would ask ALOT of work.
And as I'm doing that image by image, on gimp, because I don't know 3d modelling, this will take far too long.

The goal isn't to have EVERY civilizations on one modpack, but like :
- Greek & Carthage & Roman [Punic War Pack]
- Roman & Gaul [Gaul War Pack]
- Greek & Persian [Alexander War Pack]
- Egyptian & Hittites [Egyptian War Pack]

Etc, mainly Two "different" faction in a pack, using the regular units for the player's faction and the Scenarios units and Eagles style (Mayan, Aztec, Inca) units to represent the enemies of the player in the campaign.

And why this is a problem ? Because if I switch the actual units on late game units ... Unbalance for the win ?

If I put the Principles lvl 2 on Champions ... Meh, you know what I mean x'D.
(I know my ideas are abit Chaos Made when I write them, but you can see where my mind try to go like that)

And last thing ... The game have a lot of civilizations, but I'm realling thinking that there is a problem in the "weapons repartition".
I mean ... Every unique units are Bow-style or Sword-style of OP things like elephants xD.

I know the warfare changed alot between Antiquity and Middle-age ... But why that ? I mean I don't understand how the Spears used to fight infantry just vanished ? Or only to kill cavalry ?

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Look, those are the units using "Spears" :

- Spearman (Feudal Age, anti-cavalry)
- Skirmisher (Feudal Age, anti-archer, ranged)
- Scout Eagle (Feudal Age, easy kill by any "steel unit")

- Pikeman (Castle Age, anti-cavalry)
- Elite Skirmisher (Castle Age, anti-archer)
- Eagle Warrior (Castle Age, easy kill by any "steel unit")
- Battle Elephant (Castle Age, Elephant)
- Jinete [Berber] (Castle Age, Cavarly anti-archer, ranged)
- Kamayuk [Inca] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Huszar [Hungarian] (Castle Age, Unique Unit, Cavalry)

- Halberdier (Imperial Age, anti-cavalry)
- Imperial Skirmisher [Vietnamies] (Imperial Age, anti-archer)
- Elite Eagle Warrior (Imperial Age, easy kill by any "steel unit")
- Elite Battle Elephant (Imperial Age, Elephant)
- Elite Jinete [Berber] (Imperial Age, Cavarly anti-archer, ranged)
- Elite Kamayuk [Inca] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Huszar [Hungarian] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit, Cavalry)

- Frankish Paladin [Scenario] (hero, non trainable unit, Cavalry)
- Heavy Pikeman [Scenario] (non trainable unit, better Pikeman)
- Sundanais Warrior [Scenario] (hero, non trainable unit)
- Amazon Warrior [Scenario] (non trainable unit)

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And what about "Axemens" ?

- Berserker [Viking] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Axe-Thrower [Frank] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Woad Raider [Celt] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Boyar [Slav] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)

- Elite Berserker [Viking] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Axe-Thrower [Frank] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Woad Raider [Celt] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Boyar [Slav] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)

- Northern ""Swordman"" [Scenario] (non trainable unit, equivalent of regular Long Swordman)

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And what about unit using a "Bow" ?

- Archer (Feudal Age)

- Cavalry Archer (Castle Age, Cavarly)
- Long Bowman [British] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Mangudai [Mongol] (Castle age, Unique Unit)
- Camel Archer [Berber] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Plumed Archer [Mayan] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Rattan Archer [Vietnamese] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)
- Elephant Archer [Indian] (Castle Age, Unique Unit)

- Heavy Cavalry Archer (Imperial Age, Cavalry)
- Elite Long Bowman [British] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Mangudai [Mongol] (Imperial age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Camel Archer [Berber] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Plumed Archer [Mayan] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Rattan Archer [Vietnamese] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)
- Elite Elephant Archer [Indian] (Imperial Age, Unique Unit)

- Amazon Archer [Scenario] (non trainable unit)

------

There is TOO many crossbowmens and too many swordsmen.

Are my historical informations wrong or is there a little trouble in the historical facts ? (Where are my Swiss Pikemen ? and please don't answer "in age of empires 3" XD)

So all of this to go to my first problem mentionned ...

Lack of Variety in the actual game, which will make it hard to reproduce the historical warfare without data editing.

Anyone got an idea to produce the variety of graphic of more than 2 faction in a "pack" of units ?

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 03-07-2017 @ 11:12 AM).]

For a mod focused on ancient empires, you have a lot of Roman 'civs', who came into the picture late.

Not even any Mesopotamians!

[This message has been edited by Usac (edited 03-10-2017 @ 03:32 PM).]

@Usac

I've mentionned it, my list of "civ" is incomplete, and I'll be glad to add any other civ' idea that we can make epic with some information.

I know a lot arround Romans, Greeks and Egyptians, but I'd like to offer many possibility with many new thing, with scenarios, campaigns, graphics, real mods with full civ', etc.

Zyth, if you are still open to them, I would like to make a few suggestions on how you should carry out this mod, as someone who studies the history of antiquity and has read books such as the Herodotus, Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, life of Alexander the Great, and other titles.

To begin, I think that you should revise the format of your civilizations differently. I feel the idea of having sub-factions taking up civ spots is not a good one, because if you think about it, they'd all have to have the same basic units, and that would be an impossible feat to do if you tried to fit something such as a naval legion in. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me why you would have Roman unit sizes replace whole civs, a century was only 80 men and would have the same basic men as a much larger legion. They were not separate units, but instead, the difference between a modern company and a division for the most part. Instead of having civilizations replace cultures, and factions replacing civilizations, you need to stick to the plain old culture>civilization format not only for the sake of balance, but for clarity. You might consider having two separate Roman Republic and Roman Empire civs, and the remaining civs might have policy decision techs (similar to how it's done in Chivalry) which change their tech trees. Your civilizations could be the following:

-Achaemenid Empire (Can later choose to be the kingdom of Pontus or the Parthian Empire )

-Armenian Kingdom (Can later choose between Seleucid satrap or Roman ally).

-Macedonian Empire (Can later choose to be the Seleucid Empire, or the Antigonid dynasty).

-Greek City States (Can choose between Athens, Sparta, Pergamum, or Syracuse.)

-Epirus

-Carthage (Can choose between Barcid expansion into Europe, or the aristocracy, which gears the civilization up for expansion into Africa).

-New Kingdom Egypt (Becomes the Ptolemaic Empire in the last age)

-Old/Middle Kingdom Egypt

-Gauls (Can choose between Aedui and Arverni)

-Germanic Tribes

-Britons (Obviously not the Britons from Aoe 2 of course ).

-Scythians (Can later choose between Sarmatians or Roxolani).

-Roman Empire

-Roman Republic

-Assyrian Empire (Can later choose to become the Median Empire or the kingdom of Palmyra).

-Maurya Empire (Can later choose to become Bactria and adopt some Hellenic units, or become the Shunga Empire).

-Numidian Kingdom (Later becomes either the Berbers, or a vassal of Carthage).

-Hebrews (Can later become Maccabees or Seleucid satraps).

In this way, you have a format similar to the way it was done with Age of Empires 1, but this time, the majority of Empires in antiquity at least, are included. However, I do think it's difficult to span the entirety of ancient history, you'd have to have at least 32 more civilizations in addition the 18 presented, and so I believe it would be best to pick between antiquity (Post 1000 B.C), or ancient times (pre 1000 B.C)

Secondly, you may also want to think about your geographical span. Do we want to limit ourselves to the Middle East, Europe, and North Africa? Do we want to expand the map to the far-east going into India? Going even further into East Asia? (which would require a whole new Asian culture set).

I cannot tell you how to make your own mod, but if you do it the way you plan to currently, the results wont be as great as they would if you were more organized. You could still have sub factions as well present as policy decisions, rather than whole civilizations, for example, the Roman Empire player on a map might choose to become an auxila legion.

@Vampirus Mortem

Interessants informations.

I'll rewrite soon the first topic with my new ideas.

I'gove up the idea of "entire roman conversion" actually.
I choose "global units that could be roman and non roman" (Achesun's units), which allow me to make many thing at this time.

I'll focus my first work on Roman vs Gauls / Egyptian vs ???
Simply because I know more about those eras than other eras possible.

I will probably reproduce the story line of the movie "Jules Caesar" (escaping from rome with Caïus, then getting captured by pirates, etc, because it's a nice movie and easy to reproduce because there is already the entire scenario in the movie).
Also Hannibal story, with a lot of work arround AoE1 campaigns and documentaries on Hannibal. (I love history and documentaries)

I've a lot of idea in my head, and I still need to clear what needs to be cleared. But the graphical part is already started with the beautiful units of Achesun which are downloadable on AoK blacksmith and on steam under "Achesun Roman Unit" =P

Also, thanks for the list of civ', I'll look at that.

@Zyth, If you want to do Egyptians vs an opponent, I might recommend Egyptians (Ptolemaioi) vs Seleucids, they had quite a few wars with each other and the Battle of Raphia was one of their most well-known conflicts of interest. You could focus for now on Gauls vs Romans a campaign about Caesar's conquest of Gaul and the repression of the rebellion of Vercingetorix. And then later, have a campaign about the Battle of Raphia and other battles between the Seleucids and Ptolemaic Empire. Afterward, you can continue making other campaigns such as the Greco-Persian wars and go on from there, starting off and moving forward little by little.

I really like Vampirus Mortem suggestions.

But if you're gonna do a Gaul campaign, don't forget Asterix and Obelix

[This message has been edited by Tatsuo (edited 03-12-2017 @ 09:44 PM).]

Yeah, that's the idea.

I'll start with what I know best and then learn what I need to learn ^^

And sure, obelix and asterix in a bonus campaign XD (cheaty units with magic potion)


---------- [15.March.2017]

Here are the new Eagle Warriors, with Achesun's Arkantos model.
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a) b) c) d) e)
Scout Eagle
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a) b) c) d) e)
Eagle Warrior
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a) b) c) d) e)
Jaguar Warrior
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[21.March.2017]
Greek unit set available on Steam Workshop, Heaven Blacksmith version will come soon.

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a) b) c) d) e)
Halberdier (Mercenary Hoplite Pikeman)
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[30.March.2017]

If someone could post something, to allow me to repost a new replay after that, with the new progress etc.

Lots of new things, arround buildings sets, boats, cavalry, wonders.

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 03-30-2017 @ 01:51 AM).]

There's a gladiator unit in your list. What type of gladiator your're looking for? I remember having a murmillo model somewhere in my old computer.

@Achesun

Every gladiator I could do.
I will probably make a special pack with gladiators models, but not to use with global reskin.



That could make a minigame where you have to pick your glad' at start of the arena, then you got Lions, Elephants, Crocodiles, and other pets to kill.

Could you show a screen of the model you're talking about ?
(Basically, every model you have in the style of antique era would be awesome I think ^^)

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AoE1 cavalry was very... Small...
Illustration :

[This message has been edited by Zyth23 (edited 03-30-2017 @ 08:25 AM).]