nice to see, i now see that more than 5 vills praying is pretty useless

Yup, as i said(me the one and only god of aom) the bug is fixed. I also said that the rule of thumb for max praying villagers has changed from 3 to 4.

Praise me you filthy humans .

Quoted from gamex.cfg:

// Greek diminishing returns on praying

PrayerEfficiencyLinearPenalty 0.015
PrayerEfficiencyExpScale 0.005
PrayerEfficiencyExpBase 60
PrayerEfficiencyExponent 0.01
minPrayerEfficiency 0.30

// A = PrayerEfficiencyLinearPenalty = default 0.02 = you get this penalty flat for every unit
// B = PrayerEfficiencyExpScale = default 0.01 = this is used to scale the exponential term
// C = PrayerEfficiencyExpBase = default 10.0 = this is the base value for the exponential term
// D = PrayerEfficiencyExponent = default 0.05 = you get this much more exponential penalty for each praying dude
// minPrayerEfficiency = caps at this level

// Efficiency = 1.0 - (A * N) - (B * C ^ (1.0 + (D * N)))
// Efficiency is number between 1.0 and min multiplied by Favor per gatherer

i thought someone at paom made a guide about it

Is it me or does this seem ridiculously low ??? I have always thought this but never really *thought* about it.

So in 10 secs with 1 vil u dont even get 1 favour, hmmm. Some test with other civs favour gathering rates would prove very interesting.

According to the data the formula for it should be

Favor/Sec = Efficiency * Number of Villagers * Favor Gather Rate

Favor/Sec = (1.0 - (0.02 * Num Vills) - (0.01 * 10 ^ (1.0 + (0.05 * Num Vills))) * Num Vills * Gather Rate
          = (1 - (0.02 * Num Vils) - (0.1 ^ (1 + (0.05 * Num Vills))) * Num Vills * Gather Rate

So for 10 villagers it should be

(1 - 0.2 - (0.1 ^ 1.5)) * 10 * 0.125 (assuming no upgrades)

      = (1 - 0.2 - 0.0316) * 10 * 0.125
      = 0.07684 * 10 * 0.125
 
     = 0.09605

[This message has been edited by X_SithLord (edited 02-21-2004 @ 09:08 AM).]

It's not that low. Here are the stats for Egyptian monuments, quoted off MFO:

Monument    Cost         Fav/s   Total fav/s (first N monuments)
Monument 1 (50 F 50 G)   .097    .097
Monument 2 (100 F 100G)  .077    .174
Monument 3 (200 F 200 G) .077    .251
Monument 4 (300 F 300 G) .077    .328
Monument 5 (400 F 400 G) .088    .416

So one vil gives a little less than monument 1, two vils give a little less than 1&2, 4 vils is more than 3 monuments, 5 is more than 4 monuments, and after 7 vils you're gaining more favor than an Egyptian will ever get.

^^ fair one .

Once again Sith you have shown a complete misunderstanding of the game files (and basic mathematics). You managed to calculate the efficiency of villagers as 0.07684 even though the efficiency is capped (ie lowest it can be) is 0.3.

Lets take Pilots real world example:
Favor/Sec = Efficiency * Number of Villagers * Favor Gather Rate

0.475 = Efficiency * 10 * 0.125

or

Efficiency = 0.475/(10 * 0.125)
Efficiency = 0.38

Lo and behold the min Efficiency rate suddenly makes sense.

I did realise that when I checked it but couldn't be bothered to edit it.

I wouldn't go quite as far as saying I lack understanding of the basic principles of mathmatics but rather that I tend to make stupid errors. And I didn't misunderstand the games files btw.

Also you're right, I completely forgot that the min efficiency was capped at 0.3

[This message has been edited by X_SithLord (edited 02-22-2004 @ 09:28 AM).]

The mathmatical error was calculating a * before a ^ without parentheses there is a correct order of calculation.

I need to relearn calculation orders

It is not that hard to fix that if you need that much favor just make 5 temples and have a villie praying at each one.

What would be the rates if egypt had a priest empowering each monument i wonder ? as Ra or or 2 pharohs and SOO
just curious to see the max Egypt favour rate ?

Let's consider this. One vill gathers less than 1 favor even after 10 seconds. So let's say 150 seconds later, he gets a cent. 2.5 minutes! Norse could have that in 30 seconds. IMO Greek favor gathering should be multiplied by 5 in next patch to make up for this difference (30 seconds compared to 150 of greek) or they should get a free classical/heroic/mythic myth unit every 30 seconds to make up for this totally u/p rate... Their myth suck so much anyway so even having 20 chimera in classical means nothing, fyi 5 hersir beat 25 chimera 5v25, same with 5v25 collossi. It's RIDICULOUS it needs a massive beef, omg how can people say it's "good enough".

Cents also need +2-3 range and tox need +10% hack armor/pierce armor, greece ranged is incredibly u/p and needs a massive nerf, Greek can't compete atm. Hipps need to be cheaper, hops need to move faster, farming rate needs to be RAMPED UP (you can't compete with anyone with your crappy rate) and wood collection needs to be ramped up, greek is so wood-dependant it's not even funny. So lame how other civs don't have to live off wood as hard as Greek has to.

[This message has been edited by Einstein_006 (edited 02-22-2004 @ 10:17 PM).]

Yes, greek are way u/p. Its sickens me to my core to see how poor they perform, especially against the o/p norse. I think hades needs an extra 4,000 hps on his tc and 99% hack crush armor. Also his sentinels should turn into titans whenever enemy military enter his base, that should balance out the fact that norse infantry can build.

I think Zeus should get unlimited bolts, with no cool down time. When he hits classical, he should get lightning storm.

Instead of militia, Possy's should get gold collosus whenever his buildings break.

These small changes would allow greek to compete, thank you for your time.

CelterRaider's darned obvious, but for Einstein_006 I can't quite tell...

Give me a break you norse addicts. Stop going around and posting sarcastic threads. Norse aint that bad. Tas need a very slight boost and they also have a hard time late game with the titan gate(and lack of ranged heroes although trolls/fgs aint that bad for killing titan).

Rcs still own everything, you just need 1 more longhouse. And yes tas own anticavalry infantry a lot faster than the anticavalry infantry owns rcs(except katapeltes).

I think if you take away the favor generation of the hesir that would help tame the loki beast. Loki is terribly good even without a rush. If hesir were faster then I'd be worried about them attacking my 25 chimeras, thankfully hesirs are dam expensive and slow.

But I really think they should just add back in thors gold for attacking buildings.

Does using different temples (ie 3 at one and 4 at another) effect favor generation posted here?

Wouldn't it be more accurate if you switched up 11 players, and put all of hem praying with player 1 with 1 vill etc., and did for 1000 secs totally, so as to emilinate rounding errors?

I mean, doing inducidually, 120*11 = 1320, so you'd save time as well.

The above (my idea) would be possible to view through a rec game, where you can just let it go for 1000 secs (16:40) and trhen switch between player to player recording all the values ....

Quote:

Well i dont know how easy this is but in any case the rounding errors are very minimal to affect the final results.

Make 10 temples, put 1 villager at each temple, and they will all gain the .50 amount of favor, so you will get ownage amounts of it... its stupid to put more than 4 villies on 1 temple, make some extra if you want more favor

i agree. Those bug fixes never work.

does any one know where to get a report on greek culture and mythology.
thanks