Thats loki, he is th MU god and.

I think he the funnest god to play but not the strongest by far. just create much archers or iyc TA they rape herisrs. If you last long enough till heroic you shoulkd get him cause this is lokis weakest watch out for him in mythic tough he gets strong again then!

make ta and some hesirs to kill his mu try to get a 5min or early advance try to advance to heroic before him raid his eco if the game is late you should win also get ff get tower ups and make towers watch games in the jelani loki rec pack to see how others tried to stop the loki

So you have a fight against Loki, and you try a 5:30 advance?

I hate loki players in classical as greek. Build TA against his hersir, wall, up, upgrade towers, build more towers. Oh and advance sooner :P

a game win do u think ta counter hesir well thats kinda true but loki dont only use hesir they make loads of myth u gotta make hesirs to counter them

Quoted from wf_playerwinner:

Or trolls. And yes, against Loki you should mainly go TA/hersir with a few RC. Making hersirs from your temple will suffice though, so you can keep your longhouses for TA and (in small numbers) RC. You switch your temple from hersirs to trolls once you have the favor.

Quoted from Paperfriend:

I consider that legitimate. 5:30 is not a late advance, and as Thor you have the economic edge on your side. Loki is not Kronos who can attack with a free army right after advancing. Loki may have a training speed bonus, but the training speed of his hersirs and TA still is not that impressive. You should be able to get away with a 5:30 advance, but you need to immediately erect multiple longhouses then and make use of your economic power by spamming troops asap.

Quoted from a_game_a_win:

lose them to his undermine and then be overrun and lose the game because you wasted your early money that way instead of quickly getting troops that cannot be undermined.

No, what you need first is troops, troops, troops. Towers and walls may follow when you are sure an undermine will not render you defenseless.

Quoted from LokiKrAzY:

That alone should have sealed his defeat. But on the other hand, how could he attack your temple-building ulf? Sounds as if you had tried to forward-build against him. And that means doom for you, yes. Loki is a rush god while Thor is a raid god, so forward building against Loki is suicide. Make your temple at home, where your TC can protect your constructing ulf.

Quoted from LokiKrAzY:

You must have made other mistakes, mistakes that are not obvious from your description, possibly mistakes that you are not even aware of. Hard to tell without having the replay.

Quoted from LokiKrAzY:

If there was, then Loki would be crap. No, there is no "for sure" way to kill him, but there are efficient ways to fight him and get into the game. Play defensively in early classical unless you feel that you can overrun his forward build. Go Forseti, and mass TA/hersir/trolls. Micro your trolls on his myth units. Do not fight his army unless being clearly superior, because he is producing myth units in the process which you must factor in as added strength of his army. Have all your TA always attack the same hersir, so that his hersirs are reduced in number quickly, and generally kill his hersirs with priority. When you gain the upper hand, do not hesitate to attack and destroy his forward build before he can recover. Eradicating his forward build is already 80% victory against Loki. Do not upgrade towers too early, because his undermine can negate much of them, but get the tower upgrade later as it will be useful in the long run.

Quoted from LokiKrAzY:

No. Buildings have considerable hack armor and will keep him busy for some time. And time is working for you, because Thor gets stronger and Loki weaker as the game progresses. If he gets one more valk in return for you gaining some valuable time, so be it. But against Loki, consider protecting your towers with wall connectors instead of houses. They have much more hack armor, and he gets favor only for the damage that is not stopped by armor. They also cost you less, have more hp, and far less surface for him to attack.

if loki gets bragi heroic how is he any weaker than thor??? and please dont be stupid and say armor or that the fact that you pay 10 less gold for a dwarf is gonna change anything...

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Bragi alone will not determine the stronger player. Thor's cheaper and un-age-limited armory upgrades will give his army an advantage if used right. Why do you refuse to calculate the advantage of armor? Also loki's weaker ox-carts will make him more vulnerable to thor's already excellent raiding abilities. Speaking of raid, thor can task dwarfs on resources other than gold should he lose gatherers in a raid without paying the usual heavy penalties which loki will face.

loki rocks dude :P he isnt gay

lokicrazy stop spamming around how unbeatable loki is if you killed 100 food and 60 gold of his before advance you must have been shit eco if the loki's was better then yours

darknoob dont try and tell me things i already know, also lokis ox carts are faster too and if u got a prob aginst raiders...erhmmm wall it off. oh yeah and if you ARE a good player u wont need to stick many dwarfs on food or wood anyways u need gold late game and dwarfs take longer to train. ooh yeah why so so many people here have a problem trying something diffrent? look how many people use thor i dont want to be like everyone else i wanna use a god not many players will addmitt to being a good one

Who is forcing you to use thor instead of loki? I am just telling you why thor is better as the game progresses.

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But it is not fast enough to out run raiders. And since it is weaker it has less time to get to a safe place before it dies.

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Walling off raids as norse will definately be harder. The walls are weaker and unless you wall off half of the map you will likely be walking out of your own walls in search for new resources.

same skill level loki beats same level skilled thor

Quoted from wf_playerwinner:

lokicrazy, ignore him. Those are words coming from a hypocrite

Quoted from GhettoShot:

The armory ups and better dwarfs make a lot of a difference. Thor also has the better economic start. I agree that the weaker ox carts are of little meaning, since they are also cheaper and faster and thus easier to replace.

But Bragi, well, he is not the joker that you appear to believe he is. Thor can get him as well, but against Loki, I would always go Skadi instead. Then you have better ulfs and I have better TA. Who will win in such a battle? Your myth unit is awesome, but mine is hardly worse. Against Loki I will make only little cavalry so your ulfs hardly benefit from their Swine Array. Meanwhile, you rely on hersirs, and I have boosted TA. As if that were not enough, I get a 20% bonus on farming and you get sh*t. Your Flaming Weapons power? Frosted.

Bragi is a very good god, but not against a Norse that goes Skadi. And now don't be silly and tell me that you will turn the tide by following up with Tyr and then doing Laming Weapons/Fimbulwinter so I cannot frost you. No, your hersirs become pretty weak late game, especially against Skadi-empowered TA. I got the farming bonus, and I got the better armory upgrades, something that you can never compensate for.

And I have not even mentioned ragnarok. Your Nidhogg? I never have a problem killing that one. Quite a weak myth unit if you ask me. Especially against Skadi TA with axe of muspell.

oh how about i go njord, get ring giver and mass jarls to kill all those pretty ta i guess it all depends on who goes heroic first to copy who huh? and sense your thor econ is so awesome i guess it would be you :P

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Haha, yeah. Then you'd get owned by bragi ulfs....IT'S A CYCLE!

not if he goes heroic first.

Funny, above you said: "if loki gets bragi heroic how is he any weaker than thor???" Now that I have proven that wrong, you try your luck with Njord. But that does not alter the fact that the bonuses of your main god, Loki, are of rather low value in the later ages. And that is what makes the difference.

If you go Njord you will still lose against my Skadi. You are not Odin after all, and you also do not get Freyja to improve your jarls. TA are ranged units, so they should be used with a meat shield. Your Njord jarls will lose to my Skadi TA with a jarl meat shield. Jarls are extremely high hp units with extremely low attack for their 3-pop-usage. This means that a jarl vs jarl fight will last quite some time. All that time, my TA from the second row will deal damage to your jarls unopposed. In fact, TA have 10% more hack armor than jarls! Jarls are not really that impressive against TA alone, let alone TA with a meat shield. Hell, I could even use ulfs as a meat shield for my TA!

You could, of course, say that you will make RC against my Skadi TA. In fact that is the best thing that you can attempt. But this is meaningless as there is a counter to every unit, RC being the counter to TA. However, you have absolutely no bonus on your RC. You neither get Freyja nor Baldr, and you also do not get additional or cheaper armory upgrades for your RC. This means that your best choice against my TA is the crappiest unit that you have. And since against Loki Thor typically goes Forseti, he will also have improved ulfsarks to oppose your crappy RC.

Meanwhile, your most important main god bonus is the myth generation of your hersirs, and the counter units to your hersirs are my Skadi-boosted TA. You see, my godly upgrades precisely target your best units, i.e. the units that you are most likely to use. Meanwhile, your godly upgrades target the void.

And I still farm 20% faster.

D&P Freya does improve RC and NOT Jarls.

empireofages, Freyja improves both jarls and RC. Please do not respond when you do not know what you are talking about.

FREYA DOES ONLY HAVE THE THUNDERING HOOVES IMPROVEMENT THAT ONLY IMPROVES RC! (unless it is else in aomx, but in vanilla it does only improve RC)

So i do know what i am talking about. Do not act as if you are the only one who knows all the answers.

Jarls count as cavalry.

Thundering Hooves improves 'cavalry' not 'raiding cavalry'.

I've researched it enough times as Odin back before titans came out, uber jarls were all the rage back then.

And no, empireofages, things have never been different, not even in vanilla 1.0. To the contrary, I think I remember that jarls used to benefit even more from Thundering Hooves than they do today (reduced by a patch). So again, before displaying as sure as you are doing right now, you better double-check that you are not talking crap.

Cavalry speed and hit points +10%
Valkyrie speed +15%
Valkyrie hitpoints increased 10%

So it cavalry, not raiding cavalry

simply u advanced late and thundering hoves only works on calv
not raiding calv.

hey wf_ "lokicrazy stop spamming around how unbeatable loki is if you killed 100 food and 60 gold of his before advance you must have been shit eco if the loki's was better then yours" That is why it is loki gayness. The slow advance was due to the ulfs attacking the building of the temple. Loki can come out with a win when they look like they are on the brink of defeat.

Loki is ****ing awesome! he also gets safeguard with heimdall, so he can build the watch towers stronger for less near a person's base.

does the norse get favor for molesting animals, or would the hersirs still get the chance to summon a mythical beast on a pack of baboons?!

Yes. That is how Thor generates the 1 point of favor that he needs to research pig sticker early on. Killing the first two huntables yields the desired favor. Hersirs would get twice the favor, and of course fill Loki's myth spawn pool. However, normally you will have better things to do for your hersirs than killing huntables for a paltry amount of favor.

For some reason, TCs do not or at least rarely generate 1 point of favor by killing huntables. If you have deer within firing range of your TC and fire at them, you will usually need to kill 3 of them before getting a favor point. I am not sure why this is so, but I suppose this is because TC arrows do a little splash damage so that when you fire at an animal, adjacent animals can already be hurt. However, the splash damage does not count towards favor generation. When you kill the already injured animals later, you need to deal less damage to them in order to kill them. Less damage means less favor generated, so two animals total do not suffer.

This is just a theory (but the splash damage does exist as a matter of fact).

The best defense is a good offense. You go and rush the %&%#! out of him first.

BTW you have to advance faster if you want to survive.

[This message has been edited by Kampf_Panzer (edited 06-04-2006 @ 05:29 PM).]